Why Believe in the christian God? I dont understand why one does

ncbrian said:I know what sin is?.

If we knew what sin was, we would not need to die.

As far as I know it says "We will all die in yours sins" or is it just me

[edit on 31-10-2005 by raunholt]

[edit on 31-10-2005 by raunholt]

It's the same place. When you get to heaven, if you're a christian you'll love it. WHen everyone else gets there, they think it's Hell because they are surrounded by christians

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
If I have a differing opinion I'm screwed. You can't say that it won't happen, because the precident has been set. When Lucifer rebelled, he showed that being in God's pressence doesn't mean you have to agree with him.

When Lucifer sinned/rebelled/fell he was thrown thrown out of heaven, the third heaven, as I understand it. If I also understand right, when he fell he no longer can enter God the Father's presence, the same for Adam and Eve and now the rest of us.

So sin does remove something and lessen life.

I'm glad you understand the fact that if what you believe is wrong, then you are screwed for eternity? So please rethink at least one more time what you believe concerning sin and Christ.

I wouldn't judge a religion solely on what its beliefs were, that would be childish. There would have to be something more than that. The reason I have a problem with the name Christianity, is the destruction that was enacted in it's name. I don't think I need to list them here, but I will anyway..

-Emporer Constantines actions against Europe and North Africa (325 A.D)
-THe Crusades against the "barbarous Turks" (1025 A.D.)
-The Spanish Inquisition (1478 A.D.)
-Salem witch trials (1692 A.D.) against its own people, out of sheer stupidity.
-Conquistadors destroying the heretic knowedge, and barbarous natives. (1500 A.D.- this day)
-KKK (1860 A.D.- today)

The most agrivating part about it is that whenever a moral argument comes up as to the righteousnes of any thaught in the mind of the Christian, they always use the good ol' trump card.
"My god says I'm right, so you need to think like me, or you deserve to burn in hell."

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
The reason I have a problem with the name Christianity, is the destruction that was enacted in it's name. I don't think I need to list them here, but I will anyway..

-Emporer Constantines actions against Europe and North Africa (325 A.D)
-THe Crusades against the "barbarous Turks" (1025 A.D.)
-The Spanish Inquisition (1478 A.D.)
-Salem witch trials (1692 A.D.) against its own people, out of sheer stupidity.
-Conquistadors destroying the heretic knowedge, and barbarous natives. (1500 A.D.- this day)
-KKK (1860 A.D.- today)

The most agrivating part about it is that whenever a moral argument comes up as to the righteousnes of any thaught in the mind of the Christian, they always use the good ol' trump card.
"My god says I'm right, so you need to think like me, or you deserve to burn in hell."

We won't find out till we get to heaven, about those who said they were a christian and really were. From your list the only one I can comment on is the KKK because I've heard them speak. They will speak of God(I don't know if I've ever heard one say Jesus or not but they do give the impression that it's the God of the Bible they boast of). They don't know the God of the Bible, they may claim christianity but are not a part of it.

The others mentioned may not be christian either. A christian is not to be the authority in what is right and wrong the Bible is. We can look to the past but we need to focus on now and live for Christ now.

[edit on 1-11-2005 by dbrandt]

None of the books of the Bible remain intact to this day. From the original, to the King James version, the bible has been rewritten at least seven times. This only includes the translations into western languages. THe number of times it has been rewritten to convert people on islands somewhere. With each translation, parts are left out. Sometimes entire booksare left out. THis is much the same as using god for ones's own will. The freedom of the press is limited to those who have one.
My favorite example is the transposing of the word "poisoner" with the word "witch" because witches were a competition for Christianity when King James had the throne. Entire sections of the apocrypha, the so called esoteric books of the Bible, were removed because no lessons could be learned that would benefit any king. So, essentialy, I'm saying that if your concept of true Cristianity is what is written in the most recent, and most popular version of the Bible, then you are very mistaken.

The Gnostics knew the real truth and they were killed off. The God of the old testiment is a false god under the illusion he is the highest being. That is why he is so vindictive and needs you to worship him.
But above him is the true all knowing, all encompasing God. The false god created this material existance for his own ego trip. That was Jesus' message. Well acording to some gnostics that is.

Originally posted by savagecupid
Well acording to some gnostics that is.

I think you are using Encyclopedia definitions to learn the doctrine of the Gnostics. Yet the Gnostics have no doctrine, for they rely on Gnosis. Gnosis is to know by direct experience. It transcends theory, dogma, or belief.

Modern Gnosticism does not hold the views of Demiurge as literal as they are taught in Wikipedia and the like. I bet you if you ask any modern Gnostic if he thinks that a false God, or demi-God created this world they will answer no.

Originally posted by AkashicWanderer
Modern Gnosticism does not hold the views of Demiurge as literal as they are taught in Wikipedia and the like. I bet you if you ask any modern Gnostic if he thinks that a false God, or demi-God created this world they will answer no.

So much like modern Christians and Catholics, the modern Gnostics interpret to suit their own needs without going too far out of bounds. If you are going to adopt a religion isn't it better to go to the source and try to see it for what it is, without having it filtered through anyone else? That idea itself is very gnostic. Besides I was just throwing out an idea. Didn't think my credability would be questioned. As I don't wish to highjack this thread, we could discuss the Gnostics on another thread as I still do have much to learn.

Mod edit: fixing quote

[edit on 2-11-2005 by parrhesia]

Originally posted by savagecupid
If you are going to adopt a religion isn't it better to go to the source and try to see it for what it is, without having it filtered through anyone else?That idea itself is very gnostic.

Yes that's exactly what Gnosticism is about! Except the source isn't ancient texts, it is direct experience.

Besides I was just throwing out an idea. Didn't think my credability would be questioned. As I don't wish to highjack this thread, we could discuss the Gnostics on another thread as I still do have much to learn.

That's a great idea. I would really like an open discussion about Gnosticism and what ATS/BTS members think about it. We could discuss Gnosticism and hopefully see it for what it really is, rather than what it is exoterically considered to be.

Would you mind starting the thread?

I think it just makes more sense to believe in something that you can know first hand, and not something told to you by a third party. Everyone has their own agenda, and to simply take someones word for it is a little simplistic.

I think it just makes more sense to believe in something that you can know first hand, and not something told to you by a third party. Everyone has their own agenda, and to simply take someones word for it is a little simplistic.

But you CAN know God through Christ! I know this from my own first hand experiences!

Consider this parable:
There was once a small child who was with his mom in the kitchen while she was making dinner. Mom says, "Don't touch that stove Johnny, it's very hot!" Johnny believed his mom, but that stove was such a pretty color of orange, that he couldn't resist. As soon as little Johnny touched the hot burner, he now KNEW the stove was hot. He had moved from the realm of belief to the realm of first hand knowledge.

That is how true Christians are, we have experienced God's power and love for ourselves through the work of the Holy Spirit.

Originally posted by just me 2

I think it just makes more sense to believe in something that you can know first hand, and not something told to you by a third party. Everyone has their own agenda, and to simply take someones word for it is a little simplistic.

But you CAN know God through Christ! I know this from my own first hand experiences!

Consider this parable:
There was once a small child who was with his mom in the kitchen while she was making dinner. Mom says, "Don't touch that stove Johnny, it's very hot!" Johnny believed his mom, but that stove was such a pretty color of orange, that he couldn't resist. As soon as little Johnny touched the hot burner, he now KNEW the stove was hot. He had moved from the realm of belief to the realm of first hand knowledge.

That is how true Christians are, we have experienced God's power and love for ourselves through the work of the Holy Spirit.

None of that has anything to do with Christ. You don't know the holy spirit first hand. You don't know Christ first hand. You don't know God first hand. I think you could know god first hand if you gave up all of these second hand notions. What you described of knowing God through Christianity is what is called the plecebo effect. If you believe something will have an effect on you, it will. If you are told that you know god through Christ, and you know Christ through Christianity, and you believe it, then in your mind it will work. Placebo!!!!

You don't know the holy spirit first hand. You don't know Christ first hand. You don't know God first hand. I think you could know god first hand if you gave up all of these second hand notions. What you described of knowing God through Christianity is what is called the plecebo effect. If you believe something will have an effect on you, it will. If you are told that you know god through Christ, and you know Christ through Christianity, and you believe it, then in your mind it will work. Placebo!!!!

I do not believe what I do because of what I've been told.
I have experienced Christ for myself!
Many times I have prayed about a particular person or a specific situation, and less than a day (or sometimes right away) I will read something in the Bible that will TOTALLY apply to the person or sitauation in which I had just prayed about. These kinds of things happen to me all the time! Things that the world might consider a coinsidence, but I know it was God's hand because I had just prayed about it.

“…and His sheep follow Him because they know His voice.” John 10:4

If I feel sad that my girlfriend left me, then I hear a sad song on the radio, it doesn't mean that Christ is working through Clearchannel Communications. If you have something on your mind, things around you remind you of that. It's not Christ, it's you saying it's Christ. As I said before, it's all in your mind. The entire universe is founded on perception.

Or maybe it happened like this. You had something on your mind, then knowing what you were thinking about, you chose a book of the Bible to read. You either knew the storyline, and conciously or unconciously wanted that story to comfort you.

Why Believe in the christian God? I dont understand why one does

Because...everyone is afraid of the unknown (i.e. what happens after death) and wants some kind of plan for assuring happiness. The human mind wants to explain everything. When sufficient evidence is not found, it will then invent an explanation and use that for comfort. Everyone wants a purpose to life. They don't want to hear that we may all just be some kind of freak accident. They want creation to be a divine plan, and so by stating it as such, everyone can feel all warm and fuzzy and confident of their understanding of the universe, and their place in it....even when we don't know squat.... Sorry to put it so blunt, but not in a good mood today...

As far as I can see Christianity is a cult based on inaccurate, predated beliefs. The only reason it has survived so long is that anyone who would challenge its credability would be.
Shot
Hanged
Tortured
Burned alive
or
expelled
Fear is the best way to insure loyalty. Frear in this life, and fear of what will happen after.

By rejecting Christianty, or not believing in God altogether, will not make Him go away! Regardless of what you believe, you still have to face Him on Judgement Day!

What will you say to Him on that Day?

If you truly knew what god was, there would be no way to sin aginst "him" or reject "him" God is existence, and truth, and all matter, and all energy. I wouldn't have to confront god, because god is me. By the way, you bring up an excellent point. why is god a "Him"? "He" must get very lonely without a she-god.

By rejecting Christianty, or not believing in God altogether, will not make Him go away! Regardless of what you believe, you still have to face Him on Judgement Day!

What will you say to Him on that Day?

I will say to him...

"Why do you forsake more than half of your creation to damnation, when all we asked was a simple personal appearance. The people 2000 years ago were worthy enough to warrant a personal appearance, why don't we deserve the same consideration? You ask for blind faith and obedience, and yet give us minds to think and ponder the Universe. Truly we are not alone in the blame for the failing of simply rejecting your existence... I've tried to be a good and decent person, and if that isn't good enough for you, then please show me to the nearest elevator to Hell, for you who would damn me in spite of my good works, are not worthy of my worship."

Oddly enough, not believing in Santa Claus doesn't make him go away either...he still shows up every Christmas....