A.B.L as an attack platform?

Btw, the ATL (advanced tactical laser) which is a C-130 armed with a laser is an attack platform.

www.afrl.af.mil...
ATL's laser being worked on in a lab

[edit on 10-10-2005 by NWguy83]

The ATL link isnt working, also the C-130 in this case is basically a laser version of the Hercules gunship, so the plane basically flies close to the ground and fires its lasers. That way distortion and absorption of energy by the atmosphere is controllable because the laser has less distance to travel. Witht the ABL, right now attacking a ground target is impossible. The distance that the beam would travel from the 747's altitude would dissipate a lot of energy (remember that friction causes heat, and laser particles bumping against air transfer energy by heat) and the targeting between shifts in the thermal layers would make any attack unpredictable. YOu know why submarines dive below the thermal layer? Because waves (sonar) are bent enough that what ever returns is basically unusable. Also I think the ATL is a waste of money, the Spectre gunship doesnt need any replacement.

Originally posted by roniii259
The ATL link isnt working,

Works when I click on it.

Reflective "armor", anti-laser surfaces, were first publicly (or not) used on US aircraft in the 1980's...

Oh, and that photo looks like an MHD pulse test lab....
Old stuff, also from the 1980's....

[edit on 10-10-2005 by ZPE StarPilot]

Work's for me too!

Just had another thought.......If you can tie in the ABL or a derivative of it to a surveliance system i.e space, air or land bourne you would have the ultimate anti-personnel/assasination weapon! Some terrorist is found on the surveilance system orbiting overhead. The co-ordinates (GPS maybe) are fed into an ABL on patrol hundreds of miles away press the button and no more terrorist!

Obviously the terrain and location of the target would play a large part in wether he could be hit but if he is being tracked it only needs a split second of him being out in the open or not masked by a building and he is a goner!

Not to sure about the ethics or humanitarian aspects of this system but all is fair in love and war!

I know that conventional ordinance can do the job but that takes time to organise and deploy.....This way he is seen and he's gone and with minor collateral damage, a few crispy metres of tarmac maybe,....in a puff of smoke.......!

What do you think?

Sv Out......!

Wow... Where to begin?

First off, I think the idea of an LAV with an airborne laser system is a great idea, interestingly enough it was considered back in the Reagan years as a layer of the SDI missile shield.

The March 2002 Popular Mechanics has a good read on the history and future of "battle blimps" as they refered to them in their story.

"NASA engineers and contractors have played the starring role by solving the problem that, at least publicly, stumped military designers during the early years of the Star Wars missile defense program. At that time, blimps were envisioned as platforms for testing lasers that would eventually shoot down Soviet missiles in space."
Battle Blimps; Popular Mechanics, March 2002

Lately blimps have been in DoD planning discussions again - this time as having a laser mirror that could reflect a groundbased laser and either attack enemy missiles or sense their presense.
Pentagon Might Combine Airship, Mirror System, Lasers; Global Security Newswire, July 25, 2003

Originally posted by Xerrog
Anything that doesn't reflect the laser will absorb it to some degree. That is the main way it does its damage. When most any substance tries to absorb that amount of energy that fast it simply heats up and melts/disentegrates.

Now questions of my own...

Who will be the first to use reflective armor?

Reflective armor as a potential defense requires that the reflective surface be perfectly reflective with no spot or blemish. If there is a spot of dirt on a tank, a splattered insect on the nose of an aircraft or oxidation on an artillery shell in flight, then there is enough of a weakness on each of these targets to be exploited by a megawatt laser such as the ABL.

Keep in mind that the more powerful a laser is, even in a research laboratory, the more frequently the laser's mirrors need to be replaced.
One other thing regarding mirrors and reflectivity of a laser beam. Laser light is produced in differing light frequencies depending on the type of laser you are using.
The substance used for a laser mirror must take the laser's frequency into account or else there could be no reflectivity, only a quick burn of the substance. For example, the COIL for the ABL is a near infrared laser and a typical glass mirror would shatter, melt or literally burn up when struck by the megawatt ABL.

Originally posted by roniii259
The laser could not hit any ground based targets because of atmospheric disturbances and variation in temps. In space none of this happens, so its easy to shoot space to space. In the atmoshpere at altitude, the temperature and distortions can be calibrated for air to air, but getting close to the ground the variations become almost impossible to account for all differences so for now air to ground is pretty useless.

As already pointed out, there are expectations to hopefully deploy the ATL (Airborne Tactical Laser) in an AC-130 within a decade. This would be used for ground attack.
Also, the F-35 make get a solid state laser that would initially be used to protect it from SAMs, but groud attack has also been discussed as a potential use for this weapon.

Regarding Roniii's thoughts concerning atmospheric distortions rendering the ABL ineffective in ground attack:
The ABL has a distortion adjusting lens that is networked to the BILL (Beacon Illuminator Laser) sighting system. The solid state BILL paints or lazes the target and measures the reflection off the target, mapping the atmospheric anomalies between the ABL and it's target, then distorts the ABL's beam to maximum efficiency through the anomalous atmosperic conditions. For this reason I am inclined to think that the ABL could potentially be used in some form of ground attack. We are afterall talking about a multi-megawatt laser with approximately a 1 meter diameter beam.

Also back to the laser's frequency - what is opaque to one frequency of laser may or may not be opaque to another. For example the near infrared ABL beam is not as degraded in clouds and some types of smoke as would be a standard visible light laser.
High-Power Solid-State Laser For Missile Defense; Space Daily
Tactical Laser Weapons; LLNL Science Review, April 2002


I think that having an airborne laser on a stealthy blimp can be a great asset to the military. Just like with recon UAV's, the loiter time for such a blimp can be quite valuable.

Currently the DoD is working on blimps that are 25 times the size of the Goodyear Blimp, and far more stealthy. It would not surprise me to see this concept come to reality some day. Good call, Silentvulcan.

wow intel girl way to bring it!

Shealth blimps with lazers scary! 1 meter beam thats a lot larger than I thought the beam would be, maybe Ive seen too many scifi movie with thier 5mm lazer beams.

what about ion or practile beams?

Thanks for posting those links Intelgurl!

Having read them and seeing what state of development the solid state laser was at in 2002 maybe it won't be to long before we see a SSHCL equipped Global hawk or Predator UCAV patrolling the skies above the worlds hotspots!

Sv Out.....!

Originally posted by Silentvulcan
Thanks for posting those links Intelgurl!

Having read them and seeing what state of development the solid state laser was at in 2002 maybe it won't be to long before we see a SSHCL equipped Global hawk or Predator UCAV patrolling the skies above the worlds hotspots!

Sv Out.....!

Just as a sidenote to your statement regarding Global Hawks and Predator UAVs with Solid State Heat Capacity Lasers ...
The Global Hawk cannot be weaponized. It is for ISR use only, this has been determined by the DoD & the US State Department so that the GH like the U-2 can be used over other nation's air space without being seen as a threat.
Besides, there are other UAV platforms in development or undergoing trials that could perform the job with a longer loiter time than those 2 options.

Originally posted by intelgurl
Just as a sidenote to your statement regarding Global Hawks and Predator UAVs with Solid State Heat Capacity Lasers ...
The Global Hawk cannot be weaponized. It is for ISR use only, this has been determined by the DoD & the US State Department so that the GH like the U-2 can be used over other nation's air space without being seen as a threat.
Besides, there are other UAV platforms in development or undergoing trials that could perform the job with a longer loiter time than those 2 options.

im sure the Global Hawk can be weaponized, but even if it did not, and would be sent into other countries without permission, those nations could still see it as a threat and would view it as a declaration of war aniways. unarmed or not.

Originally posted by deltaboy
im sure the Global Hawk can be weaponized, but even if it did not, and would be sent into other countries without permission, those nations could still see it as a threat and would view it as a declaration of war aniways. unarmed or not.

Technically nearly any aircraft could be weaponized, the point is that the DoD and the US State Department have determined the GH is not to be weaponized so it can maintain the same nonthreatening profile as the U-2 and thus have greater access to foreign airspace. At least thats what the USAF says.

Originally posted by intelgurl

Technically nearly any aircraft could be weaponized, the point is that the DoD and the US State Department have determined the GH is not to be weaponized so it can maintain the same nonthreatening profile as the U-2 and thus have greater access to foreign airspace. At least thats what the USAF says.

i wish it be civilized but we remember wat happened back decades ago wen the Soviets shot down the U-2 and embarrassed Eisenhower. thats not exactly wat i would think of as greater access to foreign airspace. still it could persuade ani nation that we intended no harm just to look at wat new things u have created in yer country. imagine sending a U-2 or Global Hawk in Iran, wat do u think their response would be?

Someone touched on it earlier (only for SAMs), laser for defence, is there anything to stop a laser being used on an aircraft in the same way a phalanx (spelling?) gun system is used on ships to intercept ASMs for instance?

If that were to happen (everyone-russia included had one or two of those) on their aircraft, fire and forget missiles (indeed, any missiles) are out the window, its back to dogfighting - probably also using the lasers like an X-wing

Someone can correct me if I am wrong but I think a system which can blind incoming I/R missile seeker head's has been in use now on various US and UK A/C for a few years.

I've seen this system fitted to some RAF Helicopters and it might even be fitted to certain Bae 146's but not sure on that!

Its not powerful enough to destroy the missile but it is enough to cause the missile to break lock. Not much good against Radar guided Missiles but that is what ECM is for!

Sv Out....!