Do you really believe the "times of troubles" are coming? How sure are you?

In another post in Fragile Earth, I made a post concerning finding survival groups. I found through looking on the web and asking at couple gun shops that these groups are pretty rare.

This struck me as odd, really odd in fact.

I mean, with all those that believe in the end time prophesies and all - do they really believe? If there is going to be a tribulation, why are they not preparing for it? Why aren't churches doing anything to prepare if they really belive it will happen?

There are area's of the bible and other books that tell of a time of tribulation, times of troubles, even a time of an anti-christ where folks will not be able to buy or sell without a mark of some kind. If they believe in this, why are so few trying to prepare for it?

With so many churches preaching the end times coming, why are the churches not doing anything? Do they think some rapture is going to take them all away before anything happens? Hogwash! If Abraham is tested by being asked to sacrifice his own son, do they think they will get off so easily? If (BIG if) the rapture is real, you WILL be tested before going.

I personally believe there will be something coming, but I don't even try to decipher what it will be - I don't even know if it'll be in my lifetime. I think when we are told to be ready, it means more than just our soul. I think the clues we have are to recognise when it arrives, not to predict it before it happens.

If you believe in it, then you must also realize that unless you know another way, you'll just follow the masses - just end up justifying to yourself why it isn't wrong or why it isn't the actual mark. You'll be in another superdome waiting for someone to take care of you, but maybe not before you sign your soul away.

I have been, for years, learning and practicing earth skills, survival skills and how to live off the land. My kids and I often eat from wild plants and trees. We do things like make driking water from dirty water or plants, learn how to make cordage, grow gardens. Recently practicing fast growing foods like sprouts. We save water and store food - many things. I am not just doing this just because I believe in a tribulation coming, I do it to enjoy the outdoors, do things with my kids and to try and be more 'earth-conscience'. However, I also know that if that day does come, I will have an alternative.

In the many books I've read, it often states that this type of survival is easier in a group as opposed to solo. That I can see after trying solo to do a days worth of work. So I am continuing to try a find a group near me. If not, I may try and start one.

Maybe it's time, at least for those of you who still hold faith for todays churches, ask your church leaders what they are doing. Why are there no groups?? How can someone preach about the times coming without a plan for if and when it does?

...or am I just over the edge?

[edit on 6-10-2005 by John bull 1]

I myself beleive that it the tribulations are knocking at the door.
To the point that I have purchased an old missile site with large steel doors, it's own generator as well as water that comes straight for the aqufer (spell).
Bought the site for just over 150 grand back in 2000.
I have since stocked it with enough food medical equipment weapons etc to house 35 people. I have also installed pretty good alarm sensor array so that I will know and be able to see anoy who come near the site. I has also stocked a fairly large library of books that inculde educational, technical, as well as fiction so that we have something to keep ahead of the game.
My family as well as my close friends all know the location as well as how to get in.
I and my family plan to do everything that we can to survive whatever comes.

The last days are indeed upon us at this very moment. The stage is currently being set to prepare the world scene for the coming anti-christ. In the United States political power is being used to counter all forms of Judeo-Christian beliefs. Homosexuals are asking for and receiving special rights which protect them from anyone who would verbally attack their protected status. This is a huge step and will open up all Bible believing Christians to arrest and imprisonment.

The technology has been in place to implement the global system for years now and only continues to improve at this point. World hatred against Christians and Jews is at an all time high with no end in sight. The world scene is ready right now for the anti-christ but a few more years will create an even more fertile ground for his reign.

I’ve studied end times theology for many years now and have read no less than fifty books on the subject. I currently lean towards a pre-tribulation rapture position but understand that I could be wrong. I keep my eyes upward awaiting my heavenly reward and continue to preach the gospel to anyone who will listen.

If the day comes and that man of lawlessness is revealed It will not take them long to find me. I’m sure the heads of my wife, my child and I will be brought to the chopping block post haste. Have I made big plans to survive this time of great suffering? Nope, and I’m not going to. My plan is a simple one and doesn’t require a bomb shelter or former missile base to be made ready. I’m going to walk out into the public square like I always do and open air preach until the enemies of my God arrest me.

In joy and gladness I’ll lay my head in the machine and cry out, “Jesus take me home!”

Then…

Wooooosh off with my head!


In Christ,

James

Originally posted by godservant
With so many churches preaching the end times coming, why are the churches not doing anything? Do they think some rapture is going to take them all away before anything happens? Hogwash! If Abraham is tested by being asked to sacrifice his own son, do they think they will get off so easily? If (BIG if) the rapture is real, you WILL be tested before going.

Some are complacent and not teaching properly.

Others are getting people saved, and sorry, but there will be a rapture before the tribulation, so it is escapable. So we are doing something.

www.belowtopsecret.com...'

www.belowtopsecret.com...'

Well, Machine,

For what you are saying has hit a spot on me ,,,,,, I was goint to go on the first call but now I think I will wait here with You and have all that Fun With YOU OK ???????????

[edit on 06/29/2005 by jfdarby]

Originally posted by dbrandt
Some are complacent and not teaching properly.

The great majority aren't truly qualified to 'teach' (by man, surely--but by God? how can one be approved and called by God to teach if they disregard sound exegesis of scripture and the center support of all that is true (Psalms 118:8)?

Others are getting people saved, and sorry,

sorry, for no one but Christ ever saved a human soul. And it's been taken care of--once for all.

but there will be a rapture before the tribulation, so it is escapable. So we are doing something.

What exactly is it you that are you doing?

www.belowtopsecret.com...'

www.belowtopsecret.com...'

These don't work in any fashion I can come up with--perhaps a thread title would point the way more effectively?

Jfdarby,

Let me guess, you didn’t bother to read my entire post only the end of it? I also look up in hopes of a pre-tribulation return of my Lord and God. If it turns out to be wrong I’ll keep in prayer and God will strengthen me to endure the martyrdom to come.

As for my fervor and joy at the guillotine I don’t expect you to understand.

It’s a Jesus thing!

In Christ,

James

Why is it that fundamentalist Christians take the Bible literally until they get to the book of Revalations?

The book of Revalations is so filled with symbolism and metaphor, that an truely valid interpertation seems almost impossible. It's sort of every man for himself if you ask me; Bibliclly speaking of course.

Paranoia strikes deep and into your lives it will creep.

I'm not goin to buy into the "end of the world" senario BS.

For me it's just one day at a time. And it's time to celebrate LIFE.

While I’m not necessarily worried about an event of “biblical proportion” I am however aware of the possibility for a massive problem which results in everyones’ lives within my (or multiple if not all) nation(s) being changed dramatically. In other words, I acknowledge something terrible could occur causing much death and destruction (A trigger might be a police state, for instance). While I know this could happen, I don’t really see any preparation which could be done. A few friends from the area and I decided a year or so ago that if something were to happen, we’d stick together and survive, and we were to develop a plan. We soon realized too much could go wrong, too little is known, and we can’t truly do much in our current economical positions to ready ourselves. Communications, transportation, supplies, and anything and everything else will be an issue, and an issue we cannot resolve at this time.

We decided that knowledge is key in our particular situation. We have laid out no plans, but are aware of issues regarding many special situations which could arise. We don’t know when to prepare otherwise, or how to prepare otherwise, or even if we together will be able to prepare and execute whichever plan we must develop “on the fly” as whatever event unfolds. We’re not even sure if we would recognize the time to act, or if the time to act is already upon us, or worse, passed us by.

In conclusion, we’ll get stuck in the middle of the flack with little or no ability to escape. We will protect our interests (friends, families, property) to the best of our ability, and do whatever we deem best, both selfless and selfish. We’re as prepared as we ever will be, and so life goes on – for the time being.

Originally posted by queenannie38
The great majority aren't truly qualified to 'teach' (by man, surely--but by God? how can one be approved and called by God to teach if they disregard sound exegesis of scripture and the center support of all that is true (Psalms 118:8)?

Others are getting people saved, and sorry,

sorry, for no one but Christ ever saved a human soul. And it's been taken care of--once for all.

but there will be a rapture before the tribulation, so it is escapable. So we are doing something.

What exactly is it you that are you doing?

[

I agree to say that some churches are not where truth are found, but to say that the majority don't teach the truth is impossible for you to know. In order to make this claim you would have to have been to EVERY church in the U.S. and have sat through at least a couple of sermons and then grade each one. We know you haven't done that.

Right Jesus paid for our sins. When we place our faith in Him a person is saved. I and people in my church tell others of Jesus Christ.

Thread titles: Is the rapture even real and Rapture?

I like what Whaa had to say - one day at a time. THat is how it should be.

I personally don't know if the rapture is real, it's too vague the way it is written. If it is true, I don't think it will be before the troubles - God has a habit of testing folks.

As far as Machine going into the middle and continue preaching - why? It'd be too late for them.

One thing I learned long ago - so many opinions and interpretations, all believing theirs is the correct one - who is right? One should learn all sides as possible and then wait and see.

I like the missle silo thing - wow. That would be cool.

Nice to see some have prepared. I am not totally ready yet - need more supplies. However, remember, that even in times of no trouble, it is good for the earth, family and self.

Now, for those that go to churches, ask your leaders "Where's the prep group?"

Godservant As far as Machine going into the middle and continue preaching - why? It'd be too late for them.

Not true. Many will be saved during the tribulation period some will also live the entire seven years and go on into the one thousand year reign of Jesus Christ on Earth.

In Christ,

James

Let me guess, you didn’t bother to read my entire post only the end of it? I also look up in hopes of a pre-tribulation return of my Lord and God. If it turns out to be wrong I’ll keep in prayer and God will strengthen me to endure the martyrdom to come.

As for my fervor and joy at the guillotine I don’t expect you to understand.

It’s a Jesus thing!

In Christ,



WOW, Really cutting on me HU,, I did read all that you had said and I understood it well, But when you started talking about losing your head gave me a chuckle, Because the crown of the martyr is one of the best crown to lay at Jesus Feet..

Don't think I had no ideal what you were saying Friend...

Originally posted by dbrandt

I agree to say that some churches are not where truth are found, but to say that the majority don't teach the truth is impossible for you to know.

Just because you don't feel I can know something doesn't mean it is impossible for me to 'know' it. All it means is that it is impossible, at this point in time, for you to perceive that there is an understanding that can be had in a much simpler way.

In order to make this claim you would have to have been to EVERY church in the U.S. and have sat through at least a couple of sermons and then grade each one. We know you haven't done that.

Of course not. What would be the point?

The basic modern structure of any church is, at the foundation, based upon fiscal principles. Show me a church without a shred of overhead, no salaried 'leaders,' and no form of political heirarchy and I will revise my statement. Otherwise what I understand the bible to say, through the teachings of Christ, is in direct conflict with any institution defined by a location and a pulpit.

Right Jesus paid for our sins. When we place our faith in Him a person is saved. I and people in my church tell others of Jesus Christ.

In regard to what, exactly? His teachings? What, specifically?

It is not your 'faith' that saves you. It is the good word, the faith of God, through the actions of Christ--that saves. God made a promise to Abraham, a voluntary oath sworn on His own name--and that is the faith which saves us all--whether we know it or not, whether we understand it or not. You're no less a sinner than someone who has not 'placed their faith' in Christ. Christ died for all sinners, before any 'placed their faith' in Him to do so.

Thread titles: Is the rapture even real and Rapture?

Thank you.

The Bible says that the generation that sees Israel become a nation again, Will see the second coming if Christ

That happen in The 1967 War..That was after being without being a Nation for over 2200 Years...

I Believe that Christ is coming back very soon, My self..........

Originally posted by queenannie38

In order to make this claim you would have to have been to EVERY church in the U.S. and have sat through at least a couple of sermons and then grade each one. We know you haven't done that.

Of course not. What would be the point?

In order for you to make the statement that the majority of churches do not teach the truth about Christ and salvation you would have to personally know this. For instance let's give each state 200 churches, that would equal 10,000 churches. In order for the majority to be unscriptural we would need 5001 churches.

The point would be that to make the statement that the majority are unscriptural would need to be backed up with fact. If you live to be 90 years old that would equal 4,680 Sundays in your lifetime. If you visited a different church each Sunday you would not be able to visit enough to find out if the majority are scriptural.

From what I know of conversing with you on other threads is that you are a universalist and there aren't a majority churches that believe in that. I'll give you that because universalism isn't Biblical. We have already gone over that paticular question on other threads. You are not going to change your mind and I am not going to change mine.

Originally posted by queenannie38
The basic modern structure of any church is, at the foundation, based upon fiscal principles. Show me a church without a shred of overhead, no salaried 'leaders,' and no form of political heirarchy and I will revise my statement. Otherwise what I understand the bible to say, through the teachings of Christ, is in direct conflict with any institution defined by a location and a pulpit.

What are the teachings of Christ that conflict with having structure to a church denomination?

If you are talking about the Catholic Church I will agree with you because that denomination isn't based on Biblical truth.

queenannie38,

We probably both agree that the true church is made up of all believers everywhere regardless of which church they may or may not attend. The first gathering of Christians most likely occurred in open places and inside homes. The Bible calls on us to fellowship one with another but allows us a great deal of freedom to decide how we will do so.

For a long time I kept my fellowship to small groups of close friends and family. I have also attended various churches throughout the years and currently attend Mountain View Baptist Church in Rancho Cucamonga, California. The Bible does not condemn someone for fellowshipping with other Christians in this matter. As long as the church teaches solid biblical truths and practices in a Christian manner it’s well within God’s plan.

My faith has grown as a result of my attendance to local churches and I’ve met some wonderful Christian people. I’m currently gearing up for a round of open air preaching in the Orange County area and my fellowship in a church setting has strengthened me to do this work.

If you decide to avoid brick and mortar settings for whatever reason that’s well within your freedom to do so but you’ll need to find fellowship somewhere as the Bible commands it and it’s good for your spiritual growth.


In Christ,

James

Originally posted by dbrandt

In order for you to make

equal 4,680 Sundays in your lifetime. If you visited a different church each Sunday you would not be able to visit enough to find out if the majority are scriptural.

Or...I could just stay home and read my bible. Not just on Sundays, either. Every day.

From what I know of conversing with you on other threads is that you are a universalist and there aren't a majority churches that believe in that.

No, that's what you prefer to label me as. I didn't even know of the term until very recently. I am never comfortable with assigning my understanding within the boundaries of an 'ism' by being an 'ist.' No room to grow that way. And I figure the growing never ends. At least I hope it doesn't.

I'll give you that because universalism isn't Biblical.

That's what you claim, but cannot support in any satisfactory manner so far.

We have already gone over that paticular question on other threads.

As I recall, though, you never seem to go the distance with it--there are many verses that I have cited that you can't refute or explain according to what you feel is 'scriptural.'

You are not going to change your mind and I am not going to change mine.

I'm not interested in changing your mind. Why would I think I could? Only God can change a person's mind. As well as their heart. First the heart, then the mind. It's beauty, really--and the truest sense of a miracle that any soul could experience.

What you must see as some sort of 'you and I going the rounds' is not a matter of you and I debating at all--it's more about swords and words and higher things than either you or I or what our minds are made up toward.

Originally posted by Machine
As long as the church teaches solid biblical truths and practices in a Christian manner it’s well within God’s plan.

But they don't. ++++

My faith has grown as a result of my attendance to local churches and I’ve met some wonderful Christian people.

Ever met any wonderful non-christians? Or is christianity a prerequisite for being wonderful?

If you decide to avoid brick and mortar settings for whatever reason that’s well within your freedom to do so but you’ll need to find fellowship somewhere as the Bible commands it and it’s good for your spiritual growth.

It's not so scarce I have to search to find it outside a church group--or so scarce that I don't already have it in abundance.

There seem to be a lot more people who truly 'know' God outside of 'christianity' than within it--at least there's a lot more love out here in the world than inside any church. For each other, that is--for God there is love in every church I've ever stepped into. Even 2 weeks ago, I went to a funeral (which most of those I've attended have been in the local Catholic parish) and I am always bolstered by the love I feel from others toward God.

We love God because most of us think we will gain. (if you instantly deny this statement, then you've given yourselves away). That's not a bad thing--God promises many truly durable blessings for those that seek His righteousness. But what is that righteousness?

[color=#FF0000]Loving your neighbor as yourself.

The point of fellowship is not about getting to know God--it's what happens after that--and seems to be both a reward and a tall glass of water in a big desert. But unless a person spends more time alone than they with other people--they're getting into christianity or some other religion more than they're meeting up with God. It's impossible to hear God if you're either always preaching, talking, or listening to others do the same.