Attacks on Hispanics in Georgia kill six

garyo1954,

You are right that is why for 7 years I worked with them first through a law firm and then with the city to help their children get education.

Also the parents most of the people do not even know how to read and write, many church groups has risen to the occasion to help these people.

They are in our country they are in our communities and believe it or not most of them are hard working people.

It saddens me that they have been targeted and that it may be for the sole reason of being Hispanics.

Three People Charged With Murder in Deaths of Six Mexican Immigrants in Georgia

By Elliott Minor Associated Press Writer

Published: Oct 5, 2005

TIFTON, Ga. (AP) - Three people have been charged with murder for the deaths of six Mexican immigrants who were killed during robberies in south Georgia.

Stacy Bernard Sims, 19, Jamie Underwood, 27, and Jennifer Wilson, 26, were charged with six counts of murder for the attacks last week in Tift County, authorities announced Wednesday at a news conference.

ap.tbo.com...

Thanks TrueAmerican for the latest news, this morning the news were that the two suspects arrested were not the ones that did the killings but some taking advantage of the situation, but I see that now they have 3.

A littler bit of pull by the more active Hispanic community in the city has to do a lot with that the arrest, I am very happy.

Its more going on behind the scenes that will not make it to the news.

It was some speculations that it was gang related.

Authorities said they believe Sims and Underwood may have been part of an armed-robbery gang that preyed on immigrant workers, who often carry large sums of cash because they lack documents that some banks require to open accounts.

A few years back this same thing was happening in Tennessee but no killings were committed.

ok great Marg, you are welcome. I really hope you see that this was not racially motivated, and is just another arbitrary crime that is going to happen from time to time. Just like it does to blacks, whites, and everyone else in between. Sad, but true.

Have a pleasant day Marg!

TA

I have a question for you Marge, are they planning on deporting those Illegal aliens that were robbed or were they all killed?

No they would not, actually the state is going to take them to the border at tax expenses I guess or private donations am not sure how, and let them bury their death.

Also finally is making it to main news sources is all over CNN, but only after they got 3 suspects.

We have some very angry and very upset public figures around that are in favor of the spanish comunity of migrant workers and thanks to them things are moving and finally we got some suspect, but is not sure if they are the guilty ones yet regarless of what the news are reporting.

If a group of people of one race is relatively consistently attacking and killing the a community and members of another race, then its more or less a hate crime, I mean, lets not kid ourselves here. There were recently some people that picked up an hispanic day labourer, brought him to an otherwise empty worksite, and then just beat him to death, they didn't merely pick an 'easy victim'. Its the repitition of the attacks here that also lends to the logic of it being a hate crime. I mean, lets not pretend that there are violent and savage people who hate other races out there.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
I have a question for you Marge, are they planning on deporting those Illegal aliens that were robbed or were they all killed?

They should, even though something awful happened to them they are still here illegally. If a family of cokeheads gets robbed and one of them gets killed they don't look past the crimes of the family they would be put in jail the illegals should get the same treatment . If you are here illegally and they find out I don't care how you should be deported.

[edit on 5-10-2005 by Kramthenothing]

This is a hate crime with this as a motivator:

original news source -

"Hispanics are targets for such attacks because they often carry large sums of money."

The three suspects needed/wanted money and knew they could find it from people that were either easy to scare or they knew where they were looking--knew who had the wad of cash. Wait'll they meet a Ga. shotgun next time. What DA in the heart of NRA territory would prosecute a home defense attack?

Gangs are trouble anywhere you look at them. And good scapegoat material too when they want to take the focus off the true ugliness behind a hate crime. A few months ago it was the mexican and central american gangs crossing into AZ, the need for the Minuteman project to stop them. Like I said, wait till they start fighting back...

There's been a drug culture in the south for decades, someone stepping on some toes? Deals gone bad?

Does anyone ever think that migrants go north to escape this kind of thing?

If illegals have money, it's either their life savings or drug money and they know they need it to buy their way into the immigration system. It ain't cheap.

www.us-immigration.com...
(Not related to or affiliated with any government agency or resource. A private, non-official website.)

Probably because they have half of it farmed out to consultants to handle for them, eh Marg?

I suppose if you can follow the ones from .gov. But how many actually are on the net?
uscis.gov...

The lawyering fees are astronomical, who can blame them for wanting to stay illegal, who can afford it? Oh, that's right, they're loaded with money. From picking peaches, right0?


Here's that site again that saves them 80%. How to get a green card to how to get a credit card (just what they need--/sarcasm). It looks very official, with this disclaimer:

www.usimmigrationsupport.org...

An Independent Organization, not a U.S. Government agency.

Disclaimer

This website is not affiliated with the United States Government. We are an independent non-government organization dedicated to help individuals and their families through the U.S. immigration process. We provide up-to-date immigration information and do-it-yourself immigration packages which may save you up to 80% in legal fees.

Like Marg said, some can barely read or write...

IMO, this is definately not a hate crime. It's just a rather "smart" (for lack of a better term) robber chosing an easy target that he knows will have cash on-hand....unless there's some sort of bank for illegal immigrants. Race was not an issue here, the issue is how much money they have on-hand...it just so happens to be that the victims are hispanic and they have cash on-hand because they can't put it in the bank for obvious reasons.

[edit on 5/10/2005 by SportyMB]

Originally posted by Nygdan
If a group of people of one race is relatively consistently attacking and killing the a community and members of another race, then its more or less a hate crime, I mean, lets not kid ourselves here.

No, (emphatically!).

These types of generalizations flagrantly ignore ‘mens rea’ and are abrogative distortions which only lead to the breeding of further public racial discord used by two bit ‘tuning-fork’ politicians to motivate/de-motivate hte masses. Through the cacophony of crap look to the rules, not speculation, …..each cause is a case.

The motivation was money not race, easy cash targets not ‘racially biased, prejudiced attacks.

I fear the United States has turned ‘namby pamby’ and has fallen to grow so easily litigious that every person of color (or lack thereof) is entitled to representation (citizen or not) based upon ‘sheer ethnic association’ against another for ‘sheer ethnic association’ as MO.

Originally posted by Nygdan
I mean, lets not pretend that there are violent and savage people who hate other races out there.

True very true….’let’s not pretend’ guilt through innuendo, speculation and absence of ‘tested’ provable fact is defined as guilt. Much less the idea guilt and innocence are to be presumed upon race, there are no constants.

Originally posted by SportyMB
IMO, this is definately not a hate crime. It's just a rather "smart" (for lack of a better term) robber chosing an easy target that he knows will have cash on-hand....unless there's some sort of bank for illegal immigrants.

Spot on.


.

Yes to even start the process for them to become a citizen is very expensive and it takes time is a very long procedure that they have to follow it takes years.

On the hate crimes, I still stand by my choice of words, why?

Because if you are to rob somebody in a very poor community for the couple of hundred dollars they have, you do not need to kill only the males while leaving the females alive.

All the crimes targeted the males even when the wifes or partners were also present.

But the counties do not want to bring that subject, is more to the whole story that will not reach the public, but we localy know what is going on.

Originally posted by cjf
to the breeding of further public racial discord used by two bit ‘tuning-fork’ politicians to motivate/de-motivate hte masses.

Yes, thats the only way anyone could possibly think that its a hate crime when some white people consistently target hispanics for their brutal and murderous attacks.

The motivation was money not race

While this hasn't gone to trial, I'm saying that we can all read between the lines and figure that the people doing these murders aren't friends of the hispanic community, nore mere oppurtunists.

'namby pamby’ and has fallen to grow so easily litigious that every person of color (or lack thereof) is entitled to representation (citizen or not) based upon ‘sheer ethnic association’ against another for ‘sheer ethnic association’ as MO.

Namby pamby would be pretending that there's no racial issue here, that they didn't target hispanics and that there's no racism involved at all.


[edit on 5-10-2005 by Nygdan]

Originally posted by Nygdan
Yes, thats the only way anyone could possibly think that its a hate crime when some white people consistently target hispanics for their brutal and murderous attacks.

So hate crimes are wholly crimes by ‘group association’ or 'affiliation'?

You missed the ‘mens rea’ and the original post I made about Georgia finding hate crimes as to broad and throwing the law out which is applicable to this thread. I believe one will find thieves and murderer’s are opportunist first.

Here’s the problem with the laws (Georgia for example):

Pandora’s box………….

A rabid sports fan convicted of uttering terroristic threats to a victim selected for wearing a competing team's baseball cap; a campaign worker convicted of trespassing for defacing a political opponent's yard signs; a performance car fanatic convicted of stealing a Ferrari - any 'bias or prejudice' … no matter how obscure, whimsical or unrelated to the victim" could be used to invoke the hate crimes law, Justice Robert Benham wrote.
-[snip]-
After fights over the inclusion of sexual orientation, lawmakers removed that language and defined a hate crime only as one in which a victim or his property is targeted simply because of bias or prejudice.
(Link)

I know a large percentage the Jewish merchants in the jewelry district carry precious metals and gems, I am not Jewish and I rob them, is this ‘hate’ crime against Jews? No.

A high school student who knows the elderly get their Social Security checks and cash them on the second Wednesday of the each month, the youth robbing the elderly given this opportunity is this a ‘hate’ crime against the elderly? No.

African-American thieves which operate white neighborhoods and are arrested in the act, is this ‘hate’ crime? No.

A Hispanic gang that steals only Honda makes and models, is this ‘hate’ crime against Honda vehicle owners? No.

On and on to no end……….

Originally posted by Nygdan
While this hasn't gone to trial, I'm saying that we can all read between the lines and figure that the people doing these murders aren't friends of the hispanic community, nore mere oppurtunists.

Wrong, they are not 'friends' of Humanity!

My 101 year old great grandmother knows illegal aliens carry wads of cash; it is not hard to pick them out, so what? Reading between the lines is dangerous and far, far too assumptive especially in these cases. Crime is crime, color it another shade and you move directly to gray.

Originally posted by cjf
'namby pamby’ and has fallen to grow so easily litigious that every person of color (or lack thereof) is entitled to representation (citizen or not) based upon ‘sheer ethnic association’ against another for ‘sheer ethnic association’ as MO.

My clear error above was the use of the word ‘ethnic’ it should read by ‘sheer association’ for clarity.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Namby pamby would be pretending that there's no racial issue here, that they didn't target hispanics and that there's no racism involved at all.

‘Namby Pamby’ is this constant confusion about persons ‘targeting’ a group for a specific reason vs. that of a 'hate driven' crime and the general public immediately labeling it a 'hate driven' crime before there is even a trial.

‘Namby Pamby’ is this generation of persons who readily take to the streets like modern day Paul Revere announcing things like hate crimes based upon assumptions, under the guise of informing persons and then later whine about where ‘their rights went’.

‘Namby Pamby’ is this truckload of crap dished out every time a person of color has an unfortunate crime acted out against them and this knee jerk response…it was a hate crime...it must have been…just look at it.

When in fact, the most recent data only shows an annual count of 426 ‘anti-Hispanic’ crime incidents in the US over a one year period , odds are these chronic assumptions and easy-to-state ready made ‘labels’ are not nearly as common when held to the facts.
(Link)


.

Originally posted by cjf
I know a large percentage the Jewish merchants in the jewelry district carry precious metals and gems, I am not Jewish and I rob them, is this ‘hate’ crime against Jews? No.

I'll agree that this might not be a hate crime, tho if there are a string of attacks on rich jews in a town perpetrated by non-jews, I'll tend to think that anti-semitism is at work. If not, very well enough and it might very well not be.
Obviously we're not a court of law here and we're not charged with determining what happened. Heck, maybe the KKK isn't really racist and they're just trying to 'protect white people from criminal negros'. *shrugs* A court can examine all the information relevant to determinig whats really going on, but I don't think that we need to have that standard. We all know whats going on, and the same seems to apply to this case. Sure, it could be that these theives were merely being oppurtunistic, its possible, but given the way things are in the world and the way people act and think, it seems clear, or minimally very likely, that there's a racial motivation invovled with this crime too.

The latest on the attacks on the Hispanic community.

Even when they have arrested 3 suspect is fear that is more than that.

The police enforcement and GBR are making sure that the Hispanic communities know that the case is not over yet by any chances.

One big concern is That this attacks are more violent than any other cases of robberies that they have in the area.

The Sheriff of Tift country has agree that the violent acts are not usual.

The poor Spanish community that was targeted still do not feel secured in their homes.

Some of the people believe “That they has been targeted” for being Hispanics.

We the Spanish people overall are very upset and angry of the lack of security, and it wasn’t until our most prominent Hispanic members in the area voiced the disappointment that things really started to move on.


[edit on 6-10-2005 by marg6043]

Originally posted by Nygdan
Heck, maybe the KKK isn't really racist and they're just trying to 'protect white people from criminal negros'. *shrugs* A court can examine all the information relevant to determinig whats really going on, but I don't think that we need to have that standard. ……..

Yes, and to some degree I personally agree to some inferred points; although racist organizations lend to this prevailing school of 'hate' thought. We do need to have the courts as a standard, simply by abandoning facts leads to this…..

Originally posted by Nygdan
We all know whats going on, and the same seems to apply to this case. Sure, it could be that these theives were merely being oppurtunistic, its possible, but given the way things are in the world and the way people act and think, it seems clear, or minimally very likely, that there's a racial motivation invovled with this crime too.

The “I know, that we know, that they know, that I know everyone knows, c'mon you know... maybe etc”….is no standard by any definition. This breeds dissent and causes further unecessary legislation by demand.

I am sure there is (but could not find in ATS through a very brief search) a discussion on the ‘Federal Hate Crime’ legislation which has been thrown out which may have already touched on some of these points.

Briefly… Glancing at the surface and surmising activity which may or may have not occurred and presuming guilt ‘of individual action’ in the least invites the introduction of the very real ‘thought police’ (NM throwing consitution further out the window) . The entire concept of ‘hate’ crime relies far too much on what the criminal was thinking at the time of the crime’s commission.

The standard in which to fully entrench is a standard for everyone not for a select few, there is no need for these laws or categories as they give far, far too much power to the government to prosecute on mere ‘thoughts’ moving away from ‘state of mind’ and ‘premeditated’ causality (which already exist).

Racist criminals and violent criminals, black, white, brown, yellow, should be punished for their crimes and additional ‘hate crime laws’ aren't needed to accomplish this. Simply put… crimes against a certain class/race/demographic of ‘citizens’ (in this specific case some are illegal aliens) should not be treated more seriously than crimes against anyone else. No?

Originally posted by marg6043
The Sheriff of Tift country has agree that the violent acts are not usual.

I sincerely hope not.

"It's tragic and sad," said Tift County Sheriff Gary Vowell. "Even though these heinous acts were committed in our Hispanic community, it's affected our whole community."

That is right...."the whole community".
.

.

More complications and The latest on the incidents

The Residents of Tifton are still afraid that it can be more senseless violence among the community.

Now some retaliation between groups could escalate, even when the police is saying that is not.

It was a seventh murder this week but this time was not another Hispanic the target, but a

The bouncer at a night club was gunned down while on the job. Police say the gunman was a Hispanic male. Although authorities say it was not retaliation, they do agree racial tensions are running high, and family members say Bobby Scott should have been the last person to become a victim.

One of the latest victim family believe that it could be more violence, and the Hispanic community is still more afraid now that they were on Friday when the violent acts started,

Billy Scott believes high racial tensions led to his nephew's death. He says he was even threatened by a Hispanic man Sunday.

www.walb.com/Global/story.asp?S=3947735

One of the witnesses said that the Hispanic said that now 4 black men had to die.

The killer is still at large.

The community of Hispanics are afraid of more violence motivated by revenge.

"The atmosphere right now is really kind of hectic around here right now, because a lot of them are afraid of their lives, and now this has happened and we don't know how to," said Billy Scott, the dead man's uncle.

www.walb.com/Global/story.asp?S=3947771

Even I am afraid of what is going on in my neck of the woods one county away.



[edit on 7-10-2005 by marg6043]

Originally posted by garyo1954
These people are still human marg. Makes no difference their skin color or if they are illegal they still have right a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We call them inalienable rights in this country.

Doesn't give them the right to be here illegally. That's one right you DON'T. have.

If they hate Mexico so much, why don't they do something to improve their country instead of dragging ours down?

(I'd say this about any country sending their illegals over here--not just Mexico.)

Migrant workers as long as they hold the "Migrant status" heads are turn the other side here in GA as to their legal or illegal status.

By law they are protected as long as they are "Migrant workers" they are supposed to have a permit to work during certain times of the year in the farms.

But many are getting their papers and permit under the table, many get places around that for a price they can get workers permit, drivers licenses and even social security numbers.

When one time I was approach by the school system and ask to tell if I knew who was illegal or not, my answer was . . . that. . . it was not part of my job that if they wanted to know if they were illegal they should sent the authorities to arrest them.

Occurs they can not do that, only if somebody "Tells" then they have a witness.

I said NO.