WAR: Human Rights Groups Label Insurgents As War Criminals

Human Rights Watch, who repeatedly has criticized U.S. forces in Iraq, over alleged abuses of prisoners has now turned its attention to insurgent groups like al-Qaida and is now labeling them as War Criminals. HRW's 140 detailed report came just a few months after Amnesty International had issued a similar 52 page report in July which stated the very same thing.



Well it is about time the Human rights groups got off there duffs and exposed the insurgents for what they really are; nothing more then killers and thugs of innocent children and civilians.

The sad part of this is I doubt the Iraqi people will read this news in their papers. If they could it might help shorten the war by turning them against their true enemy.


Related News Links:
hrw.org
news.bbc.co.uk

well they took their time. maybe they were afraid if they designate the insurgents and Al Qaida as war criminals, the terrorists would start targeting them.

If the human rights groups have any influence at all, I am wondering how many innocent people lost their lives to the insurgents because of the delay these groups took before speaking out. Yes, the Americans are certainly guilty of human rights abuses but not as a matter of policy. Individual soldiers acting in manner that was unprofessional were responsible and have been taken to task. But who is holding the insurgents responsible for the cruelty and terror that they have placed upon their own people.

Have the human rights groups been blinded by their own hatred of George Bush so as not to be able to see the human rights abuse that the fundamentalist moslem insurgents have shown towards their own people? Against people of their own faith?

Well it's high time.

Don't fall for this claptrap. Somebody obviously made sure the information in the report switched focus to non-american atrocities when Americans are busy committing atrocities every day in Iraq against innocents.

Atrocities are commited on both sides. Don't ignore one and blame the other.

So....if their reports were invalid before, what has changed to make their reports valid now???

Look up the bush, senior branch of the CIA. They have been torturing Americans esp. children for decades. The 1977 MK-ULTRA Senate Hearings are online. Some of the many victims (Dr. Hammond in his Greenbaum speech online, first given to the American Psychiatric Assn. believes that tens of thousands of Americans have been tortured in the MK-ULTRA mind control program) and the psychiatrists who believe them are on the www.Raven1.net... and ACHES sites.

The torture of innocent Arabs, an Australian at Guantanamo Bay and elsewhere, according to Rawstory, Cheney negotiated with Halliburton Brown and Root to build torture chambers all over the world, is so very similar to the reports of those who survived the caging and rape, sodomy, electric shocks to genitals - see www.TheDoodAbides.com... Ethical Biscuits.

If you want to help the innocent victims of what one American mayor who visited Gitmo said looked like a mind control program and to find out what is going on please visit: http:www.cageprisoners.com.

Obtaining true accountablity though will be quite hard to do tho with Bush's criminal gang, including his lackeys in Congress, running the show. If we had a Dem Congress maybe, but Republicans like Warner have not followed thru on Abu Gharib even tho they said they would.

~~~~~
The question is what we do with the charges If the photos are released and we as a nation go the route of azzrocket and try to justify the horors that exist in them, then we are doomed. If when the photo's are released the nation calls for accountability and moves on that feeling, well then we start to redeem ourselves in the world. This isn't just a matter of our troops in Baghdad, this is a question of americans getting the crap beat out of them in Helsinki as well. Beyond that it what we stand for as a people. If we truly stand for the torture of the innocent, and condone some of the things reported to be on those videos, then maybe we are a nation that really deserves everything they can throw at us. Because if that is the case, then we are no longer the United States that we all grew up with, we are just another sick declining imperial power that is on the long slow march to oblivion.

Originally posted by shots
Well it is about time the Human rights groups got off there duffs and exposed the insurgents for what they really are; nothing more then killers and thugs of innocent children and civilians.

Oh how grand it would be to live in your World shots. Since when do we need a human rights watchdog to tell us terrorists are human rights abusers? Do you really feel that badly done to when Human Rights groups DARE to criticise the American government on THEIR human rights abuses, that you look for justification for it in reports like this? So badly done to that having these insurgents labelled "human rights abusers" some how absolves the American military of theirs. "Hey they are doing it too!".

Originally posted by shots
The sad part of this is I doubt the Iraqi people will read this news in their papers. If they could it might help shorten the war by turning them against their true enemy.

No, the sad part of this is that you ARE reading this and some how allowing it to justify the abuses your government has carried out in your name.

I wonder, can you use the same rationale that a few bad apples are spoiling it for the rest when refering to insurgent human rights abuses? Afterall, the extent of the U.S militaries human rights abuses ends with the likes of Lindie England and a few rag-tag miscreants, right? Could it be the same with the insurgents and by-and-large they are honourable soldiers fighting an invading belligerent force? Some how I dont think you'll buy that but hey if the shoe fits here with the insurgents it fits with the American military. You would like to cherry pick when to believe a human rights report, I on the other hand tend to believe them all the time.

[edit on 4/10/05 by subz]

Recently members of the 82 Airborne testified to Human Rights Commission about the torture they had witnessed and been forced to participate in.

There is a horrible story on AmericaBlog and elsewhere about the Gore for Porn and even the redacted photos sickening.

www.cageprisoners.com...


[quote
"How to Help


]1. EVERYONE

a. Subscribe to our weekly mailing list. This will ensure that you are up to date
with the latest news, articles and action alerts. We do not buy, sell or forward lists of email addresses nor solicit email lists from other groups. Our list is an 'opted in' list; you are free to remove yourself from the list at any time. Also register and actively participate in our discussion forum.

b. Respond to our action alerts and partake in our campaigns Encourage your communities to participate by raising money, writing to politicians, to prisoners, organising and attending events and signing petitions.

c. Write to the prisoners and their families. Remind them that they are not forgotten and to boost their morale. Show them that people still care and are
campaigning on their behalf. Make it a particular practice to write to them on festive occasions, such as the Muslim celebration of ‘Eid. You can send money to some of the prisoners which can help them to purchase small items or extra provisions. In some cases you can send other items (books, posters, audios etc) to the prisoners.

Similarly, you can show your support to the former detainees who have been scarred by their years in detention and are struggling to adjust to life on the outside, by corresponding with them and sending gifts...."

(recommended items are small like National Geographic magazines) more things to help and to find out the human side of this torture and illegal detainment without being charged with any crime, no due process, locked up forever and being tortured to create the bush crime family and PNAC's gestapo which will affect you and your loved ones.

Look up FISA for civilian labor camps in America and FEMA Concentration Camps in Search Engine. IT CAN HAPPEN HERE, HAS BEEN HAPPENING AND IS COMING ABOVE GROUND IN NEW ORLEANS AND THE GULF STATES who still have not received aid from FEMA or the Red Cross. The individuals who have helped were shocked when the rural areas in Mississippi asked for 5,000 body bags. What is really going on with the Blackwater Mercenaries who have done much of the torture in Iraq?

I suspect that this is a PR ploy to give HumanRights Watch some wiggle room in their fundraising. Once upon a time, they used to troll for dollars among mainline liberal protestant churches in the US.

The fact that HRW (among others) were 'left of center' led to their being less welcome to advertize and fundraise in church foyers.

I suspect the release of this latest 'report' means that they'll be coming to a church foyer near you, and just in time for Christmas, too.

Of course, mainline liberal churches have been losing their funding as members bleed off into more evangelical (right-leaning) congregations. It's the old marketing cul-de-sac of increasing your market-share in a shrinking market. . . .

hard times all around.

.


[edit on 4-10-2005 by dr_strangecraft]

WE should be appalled as a nation, as members of the human race. This violates
ALL we claim to stand for. And worse, in the long run it doesn't work and it only
creates MORE enemies, truly DRIVEN enemies. We are idiots. Someone should screen the Battle of Algiers for Bush.In WWII, against a horribly intractable enemy, the US did not stoop to torture and it saved thosands of lives - many of them American. Enemy troops surrendered knowing they wouldn't be tortured by the allies, in fact would get Geneva Convention treatment, so many surrendered rather than fight to the bitter end. Had they suspected torture awaited them upon surrender the dynamic would have been very different.

Please get involved to be able to preserve America as a civilized nation and really support our troops, torture by the US puts them at risk:

Human Rights First Our Chance to Correct U.S. Torture PolicySenator John McCain's amendments will go far in ensuring torture never happens again in America's name. They will establish clear guidelines for our troops - and prohibit cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment. This is exactly what we've been fighting for.

But the White House is doing everything it can to prevent these commonsense
amendments from coming to a vote.

Supporters like you asked your Senators to vote for Sen. McCain's legislation. And
now it looks like enough of them will! But the battle isn't over. Please fill out the
form below to tell the White House and Senate Majority Leader to quit trying to
silence Senator McCain. After you have sent the letter below, ask your friends and family to join us in this effort by sending letters of their own.

action.humanrightsfirst.org...

After reading the newspapers this week, I am more concerned than ever about U.S. interrogation policy. As more and more military officials and detainees come forward with allegations of abuse, it has become exceedingly clear that the administration must set strict interrogation guidelines and establish the Army Field Manual as the standard for treatment of all detainees in Department of Defense custody.

As benevolent tyrant already said, Both sides commit inhumane acts during war. But organizations on both sides are so dead set on making the otherside look bad that they overlook what's right in front of them...in this case it would the "insurgency" commiting war crimes. They're hatred for one side clouds thier judgement for the other.

It's about time that the Human Rights Groups label the Insurgents, AQ etc..etc..as War Criminals, Long overdue, IMO.

Sorry to wonder off topic

[edit on 4/10/2005 by SportyMB]

Originally posted by subz
No, the sad part of this is that you ARE reading this and some how allowing it to justify the abuses your government has carried out in your name.

Kindly show me where I have justified what the US did was right. Trust me I never implied what the US did was justified or right and you can take tha to the bank.

Also stop trying to make the US out as the bad guy all the time. There have been claims made against your country also. But what they Hey on your side of the street you want to point the finger at the other guy all the time. "People in glass houses should not throw rocks"

Graphic photographs of British soldiers allegedly abusing Iraqi prisoners were splashed across Britain's newspapers

[edit on 10/4/2005 by shots]

Originally posted by MataH
WE should be appalled as a nation, as members of the human race. This violates ALL we claim to stand for.

The actions of the insurgents violates what the US stands for?

I think you have misread the opening post or something.

shots:

Well it is about time the Human rights groups got off there duffs and exposed the insurgents for what they really are; nothing more then killers and thugs of innocent children and civilians.

The sad part of this is I doubt the Iraqi people will read this news in their papers. If they could it might help shorten the war by turning them against their true enemy.

Hmmm. The US forces have killed THOUSANDS of innocent children and civilians (caught in the crossfire, wrong place at wrong time, etc).

What makes you think that your average Iraqi doesn't see the Americans as the "true enemy".

Do you think your average Iraqi on the street supports the carbombings?

Of course they don't. But they realize the United States created the situation by invading Iraq with no plan for rebuilding.

They also blame the Americans because YOU are their security. As an occupying power, it is up to YOU to ensure that the population is safe and secure.

Guess what, they are now more unsafe than they have ever been in the past. What, 30 carbomb attacks a day? Sure it's the insurgents who are doing it, but it is your advanced, technologically superior armed forces that are letting it happen.

And it's not Americans who are dying, it's now more and more civilians. Your responsibility.

Yeah, yeah, I know. You can't protect them 100% and also protect yourselves. You can't try and save them at the expense of losing control of the country. You're damned if you doand damned if you don't.

Might have been a good idea to have been thinking of these things before the war.

War is unpredictable, and if the War in Iraq ends up bankrupting the US treasury and making the rest of the world hate you, well, that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Whenever I say that civilian deaths are no good, some pro-Bushie is there to say "Hey, war is hell."

Yes, it is. And if you start it, then you have to deal with the consequences. You break it, you bought it.

And I LOVE how people slam HRW for being totally evil and slanted and anti-US, UNTIL they actually say the OBVIOUS, that the insurgents are war criminals. Do you need HRW to tell you this?

It's far less obvious when they are saying that the actions of the US military in interrogating and torturing terror "suspects" is a war crime, but of course, when they say things like that, they are being anti-US.

www.hrw.org...


jako

Jakomo Just what is the point you were trying to make?

All I saw was essentially nothing but rambling.

shots:

The sad part of this is I doubt the Iraqi people will read this news in their papers. If they could it might help shorten the war by turning them against their true enemy.

That's my point. You assume that Iraqis see insurgents as their "true enemy", when in fact you don't have any idea as to what your average Iraqi perceives.

It is YOUR responsibility to protect Iraqi civilians from insurgent violence, and you are failing. So you are being blamed for it.

The story that HRW calls the insurgents war criminals is total fluff. Everyone knows they are vile criminals, yet you try and use this to justify an illegal war, an illegal occupation, the torture and killing of "suspected terrorists", and any number of atrocities that the US has perpetrated in Iraq.

That's my point. It's in the post, read it again.

Originally posted by Jakomo


The story that HRW calls the insurgents war criminals is total fluff. Everyone knows they are vile criminals, yet you try and use this to justify an illegal war, an illegal occupation, the torture and killing of "suspected terrorists", and any number of atrocities that the US has perpetrated in Iraq.

That is what you think. Contrary to what you claim their calling them war criminals now changes the outlook. Prior to the publishing of the article all HRW did was blames the us when that was not the case.

No fluff to it at all, but you can keep thinking so if you want:shk:

shots:

Prior to the publishing of the article all HRW did was blames the us when that was not the case.

Who the Eff cares what HRW thinks? Pro-Bushies would tsk tsk them when they called the US war criminals and now since they are ALSO blaming the insurgents then it's okay?

So now it's proven that YES, the United States IS doing things in Iraq that are tantamount to war crimes, but hey, so is the enemy.

FYI - One is a ragtag group of guerrillas operating in small groups and one is THE WORLD'S MOST POWERFUL MILITARY FORCE.

Do you think that maybe there is a bit of a disconnect in there? You say "We need to do whatever it takes to win."

That's what the resistance in Iraq does. Whatever it takes, in their mind.

If that means destroying civilians to get what they want, then they will do it.

Sound familiar? Wasn't it your government that approved the Shock and Awe campaign, dropping thousands of tons of bombs on Baghdad, a civilian center with a population of 4 million?

So congratulations, the United States AND the insurgents are both committing wartime atrocities! So says Human Rights Watch! Way to go!

Sound familiar? Wasn't it your government that approved the Shock and Awe campaign, dropping thousands of tons of bombs on Baghdad, a civilian center with a population of 4 million?

So congratulations, the United States AND the insurgents are both committing wartime atrocities! So says Human Rights Watch! Way to go!

Yes it was approved but to the best of my knowledge never implemented, but nice try not :shk:

And no the US is not the ones killing civilians on purpose that is the insurgents.
Again nice try not :shk: