RAPTURE a doctrine of man?

Originally posted by NuTroll

Originally posted by Nygdan
Why would satan make up this idea of a pre-tribulation rapture?

So he could fool people into believing he was Christ come to rapture them away before the actual second comming. Anything that would confuse scripture or understanding to the timeline is beneficial in its own anyway (to satan).

perhaps if project blue beam is legitimate it would explain how this scam could be pulled off. though that is not necessary for him to be able to pull of this scam.

I guess I'll have to read up on "Project Blue Beam." I have to admit I'm out of the loop on that one.

Originally posted by Forgiven
The most glaring problem with any theory that doesn't include the rapture of the church is the total absence of it in the tribulation described in revelations.

Not when you consider that the word we call 'church' (ekklesia) is just the Greek version of the word 'assembly,' ('qahal' in the OT: often translated 'multitude', 'congregation', 'assembly', etc...)

The whole 'rapture' theory rose out of the attempts to repair the damage done during the Reformation to the RCC's subversion of the scripture and self-decreed monopoly on their god (the image of the beast, you know, from Revelation chapter 13?--the god invented by man which reflects man's own imperfections and petty nature rather than the Splendor of God's true Nature).

It started with the birth of the 'preterist' and whatever else there is camps (futurist, millenialist :puz of prophesy interpretation (designed to counter Martin Luther's unabashed accusations toward the Holy See of being antichrist in nature).
see Luther's 95 Theses

The strategy was simple: if 'The Antichrist' was in the future, yet--or alternatively was all wrapped up in the foolishness of Nero and his fiddle--then how could religion/christianity/the 'church' be 'the Antichrist,' silly? That's just plain impossible, obviously--if your Jesuits are skilled writers of theological propaganda!

It was then, also, that all that is against God and truth became rolled up in one ominous forthcoming human being known as 'The' instead of just antagonistic energy and human nature resistant to spirit--easily accomplished by adding the non-existent definite article (the) as needed in select scriptural tranlsations.

I've oft been accused of beating the same old drum on this rapture thing--but this isn't biblical interpretation I'm depending upon--it is documented history and can be easily investigated by anyone who really wants to know the truth (as opposed to building upon their own self-made wall of comfortable hewn stone.)

Ultimately, the unavoidable flaw in the whole rapture scenario is that is directly contradicts scripture:

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
--Revelation 12:11 KJV

Who didn't love their lives until the death?

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
--Revelation 12:17 KJV

It seems to me that we're given a choice--
1. fear for our fleshly hides and love our lives all the way to the death (which will surely come for every one of us, at least as pertains to our carbon-based organic existence).
2. keep God's commandments and serve in the testimony of Jesus Christ.



It's so straight to the point and definite--no need to meander from epistle to OT prophesy and back to gospels in order to support a single premise:

Who do you love the most?
God? Christ?
Your neighbor? Your archnemesis

Or your own measly carcass?

Alternatively (and a more positive, less soapy note) there is also the extreme logic and stableminded understanding of some sort of rapturish-event:

Originally posted by ben91069
Does anyone here realize the biblical rapture explains the obvious - death. It is presumptuous that people have come to believe that it is describing an event where believers are all raptured at the same time. Perhaps it is just describing the process of dying for each and every one of us. At this point in time, we are raptured.

Ben!

NO ONE of any denomination believed in the doctrine of the "Rapture"--or had even heard of it--before the whole notion was concocted by a guy named John William Darby. Google his name and you'll see for yourselves. Darby invented the whole notion of "Rapture"--it DID NOT EXIST before he dreamed it up. Is the "Rapture" manmade? Yes, and I've named the very man who invented it--John William Darby. As for these weird allegations that the Roman Catholic Church is somehow involved in promoting the idea of the "Rapture"--nonono and no again. It is fundamentalist, evangelical Protestants who promote this false idea. (Not all of them, but a substantial number.) I am Catholic myself and I can inform you definitively that the Catholic Church rejects the whole idea of any "Rapture". If you've ever met someone calling him/herself a Catholic who believes in the "Rapture"--well, that individual is sadly ignorant of the teaching of their own Church.

Originally posted by scienceguy94



This is fundamentally flawed becuase God did not rapture Noah when he sent the flood?

Enoch was raptured. Not Noah. Noahs plight would be akin to those who are on earth when judgement comes

No I think that the rapture is a doctrine of man which is a deception and trick of the satan.

Except its in the bible. There is the problem. Look up the phrase 'catching away'. Thats the rapture. The only question is when the catching away will happen. not if.

.....
Does it contradict the bible?

Yes.
Read Revelation again.

Yes the awareness of all people in unity of conscious mind is bubbling up to the "conscious mind" of every person. Mankind breaks Consciousness up into being conscious, Aware of the thoughts, and Unconscious mind. The unconscious mind is also consciousness that some factor of our stage/growth has hidden behind a veil. We all have different levels of awareness when it comes to the veiled led consciousness, aka unconscious mind, but throughout mankind it would seem that vale is dissolving in accordance to how "awake" the person is already.

In regards to "awakening" I express it like this. If you realize/accept that your "thinking"/consciousness, is that electrical impulses within your mind, and that the matter that makes up the physical aspects of your mind is at its base energy. One starts to realize all things are energy and that all energy has consciousness. From the perspective of the majority of mankind those "higher states of consciousness", ie. the consciousness energy such as the energy of a group of people up to all people (the collective conscious mind), to the majority these energy/conscious states of mind reside in the "unconscious" veiled mind state of the individual person.

Although “levels” of consciousness are assumed as consciousness as energy varies like energy in the electromagnetic spectrum of energy, I feel we can assume a safe general series of “levels” to break categorily the variances of the conscious energy up into. Moreover by replacing the term of consciousness with the term similar with “conscious energy” known as “spiritual energies” I think it’s easy to understand the relationship of physical thinking to spiritual being. At that I feel we can break down the levels of consciousness/spiritual into the biblical “Jacob’s Ladder”. Those levels would be somewhat as follows.

First we have the individual consciousness mind. Earth bound. It comes in varying states. Secondly we have the collective conscious mind set. Thirdly we have the Universal Consciousness, this would be the conscious energies of matter any where from trees and rocks to planets, solar systems and galaxies. The Universal conscious mind set would be along the lines of understandings, shared consciousness, with rocks, water, world (globe). Then the top conscious mind set would be that of “God”, where you understand or commune with the consciousness of all things created and not created.

Being thus, those with the ability and drive to do so can learn, know, to ascend and descend up and down the ladder of spirituality, consciousnesses, assuming they’ve learned for themselves how to walk such a path. Those with the ability but without the understanding of the difficulties and steps along the path become what we know as “crazy” whereby they get confused as to the level at which others are on, not knowing their personal mind set nor where upon the path/ladder they are. The crazy ones had gotten themselves turned ass backward in the shadow lands of their own conscious minds.

However, if done right in a variance of ways, such abilities explain such things as prophetic abilities. As it all is really a story already written in the consciousness of God, this story dribbles down the ladder to all conscious realities. This is the reason the web-bot program and people like Edgar Cayce and Nostradamus can foresee events through the collective mind aka collective consciousness.

This is the origin of the evolution, the enlightenment of mankind, the biblical “unveiling”, and this is the set up of the transition state of mind in the upcoming 2012 event. This is the awakening process that can be witnessed somewhat throughout mankind at this time.
The Awakening of the consciousness of mankind in part and as a whole is the enlightenment that will come about 2012ish, but I also see the world events as being "end of the world".

I know there's to be such events, and this will fule the awakening too.