US troops upload photos of dead Iraqis for porn

With apologies to all. Edited to remove links.
And thank John bull 1 who made a great call.





[edit on 29-9-2005 by John bull 1]

[edit on 29-9-2005 by garyo1954]

by woodsyboy:
Sick, why is it that so many Americans think stuff like this is "awsome" lol, childish and totally stupid. Why is it that in a country like america the only people the majority of them give a about is their own people. Im sorry to rant, I dont have anything against america, im just glad im not part of it.

Actually, I don't feel this is an issue of us, them, you, or anybody.

In my opinion, this comes down to basic human morality!

It's not tit for tat, an eye for an eye, "well they did it first? . . ."

BS!!

No matter what your stance is concerning the situation at hand [US in Iraq].

Exploiting the death of another for your own self gratification. . .

IS JUST PLAIN WRONG!

Even without the pics 4 porn aspect.

IT IS JUST PLAIN WRONG!

Peace2All

I remember a Friend of mine, who worked in the Department of Defence of Slovenia, telling me stories how all the Big Majors, Captains and Generals had their hard-disks on Computers full of X-rated material, all sorts of Porn and not to mention how their Computers were all the time under attack by porn-cookies and all that banners. He was just serving his few months there, and during his short period he could see why there people use their computers at all: to exchange Porn!

Not to mention my other Friend, who has his Mailbox everyday full of X-rated stuff, and ALL OF IT coming from Goverment e-mails, with .gov endings. Pretty Nice.

We can not avoid that stuff - there will always be people, wheter in Goverment or in the Military, that will share Porn Pictures.

Well this case is a more Sick, just because of the FACT that these people were sharing Bloody and Gory war pictures for Porn.

So, what is War then?

Sex, Drugs and Rock&Roll?

We can not avoid that stuff - there will always be people, wheter in Goverment or in the Military, that will share Porn Pictures.

Souljah, dude..seriously man...what was the point of that story????
What country is that ".gov" from????

People are people...and people surf porn and do wierd stuff.
It has nothing to do with the Govt or the military....it's people...as a whole.

Sporty

Pictures of these things have been taken by combatants since the advent of the personal camera and before that and since by photo journalists. The only difference now is that there are digital technology and the internet. Tasteless, yes, but that's about it.

[edit on 2005/9/29 by GradyPhilpott]

This should show to everyone that there are very sick twisted people on both sides.

The problem is that some like to believe that all of "them" (insurgents, terrorists, freedom fighters, resistance or whatever you want to call them) are ALL like that.

At the same time these people can't understand why some think the same about us, the good guys, the liberators or whoever you want to name us.

Originally posted by SportyMB

We can not avoid that stuff - there will always be people, wheter in Goverment or in the Military, that will share Porn Pictures.

Souljah, dude..seriously man...what was the point of that story????
What country is that ".gov" from????

People are people...and people surf porn and do wierd stuff.
It has nothing to do with the Govt or the military....it's people...as a whole.

Whats the Point?

That Internet is Mainly used to Share Porn?

Point is that there are alot of people in all lines of Work and Social Classes that DO think that.

And .gov is used for Goverment e-mails and other employees that work for the People and by the People.

The soldiers have every right to take photos in battle if they so choose. If the photos are of the enemies dead, well, thats too bad for the dead , but they arent likely to complain.

The internet is a venue for information. Photos of dead combatants are information. There is no moral issue here in my opinion. In war there is death. In life there is , well I hate to say it , but porn ( at least on the internet ).

Give these soldiers a break - so what they posted pics of the defeated, traded the photos for whatever. If they had traded for food and water would you be happier ? I thought so.

Therefore it is not a matter of any immorality , rather only a difference of opinion and the soldiers, and we all for that matter are entitled to our own

Alias Jones

And .gov is used for Goverment e-mails and other employees that work for the People and by the People

I know what .gov is for.....I was aking what country are you saying that the .gov emails came from? US, Slovenia, Where??

sporty

Originally posted by SportyMB
I know what .gov is for.....I was aking what country are you saying that the .gov emails came from? US, Slovenia, Where??

From here, from Slovenian Parlament Members and other Officals that had the .gov and other official e-mail extrensions.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
I am seeing a continuing chain of command problem. You aren't going to tell me that the chain of command was clueless. If they were, it is because they wanted to be clueless. Every problem I've seen arise from the Iraqi operations can be attributed to a weakening of the NCO chain. A large number of NCO's people need to embrace the NCO's creed and repair our military.

Emphasis mine.

What movie best depicts what it's like to be in the military? (Not to mention video games)

I'm sure non of the depictions are dead on and you get all kinds of people joining up but they probably have an effect on how people act in a groups under war conditions, especially those from the Lynndie England end of the gene pool.

So what values are being instilled in the military?

I've read some stuff about the psychological effects of basic training. Break'em down and build them back up military style. Dehumanize and demonize the enemy. A special program was started after a military requested study on the subject found that many soldiers were not firing or bothering to aim their guns due to personal convictions (like thou shall not kill) in past wars. The training includes either overcoming moral objections to killing and/or releasing the instict to kill.

How is this accomplished?
Has the process gotten that dehumanising?

Maybe that's why we are seeing this gratuitous behaviour?
.

Originally posted by Alias Jones
Therefore it is not a matter of any immorality , rather only a difference of opinion and the soldiers, and we all for that matter are entitled to our own

Of course you are entitled to your opinion. And I wonder what that would be if it was your body in the pictures. After you fought hard. After you earned the respect to at least have your remains treated decently.

I might also mention that at the time these soldiers did this, it was likely not in the middle of a firefight. It was more when they had the chance to think, as they were on the internet. It may not be a morality issue to you, but to me the choice would be clear.

Originally posted by Alias Jones
The soldiers have every right to take photos in battle if they so choose. If the photos are of the enemies dead, well, thats too bad for the dead , but they arent likely to complain.

The internet is a venue for information. Photos of dead combatants are information. There is no moral issue here in my opinion. In war there is death. In life there is , well I hate to say it , but porn ( at least on the internet ).

Alias Jones

I checked your profile to see your age. It is not there. So I am assuming you are an adult until you prove me otherwise.

Simply ask yourself:

How would I feel if I found a picture depicting a horrible death suffered by my brother, sister, mother, or father?

If that doesn't faze you, ask yourself, how would I feel if it were my child or my wife?

If you still don't get it, think about how your loved ones would feel if it were you in the picture.

Surely you will eventually learn the lesson. It just takes a little thought.

[edit on 29-9-2005 by garyo1954]

I've read some stuff about the psychological effects of basic training. Break'em down and build them back up military style.

IMO, all that break 'em down, build 'em up stuff is all rubbish...maybe back in the day it was like that...like back in Grady's time. But nowadays....I don't think it is. There are follow on schools that far surpass basic training when it comes to the physical and psycholigical aspects of training. Im not saying it's like that for everybody..there are some people who just can't hack it and others that barely do....it all depends on the individual.

Dehumanize and demonize the enemy. A special program was started after a military requested study on the subject found that many soldiers were not firing or bothering to aim their guns due to personal convictions (like thou shall not kill) in past wars. The training includes either overcoming moral objections to killing and/or releasing the instict to kill.

That's true....studies show that in WWII, a very small number of "combat" troops actually fired thier weapon (I read that in a book), let alone kill a man. Training has to be like....IMO, society starts the training young..with video games and TV. That's not the reason, but it makes a good start.

sporty


[edit on 30/9/2005 by SportyMB]

TC, I agree with you about the NCO's leadership of the troops. A bunch of people had to have known this was happening and yet did nothing. I am familiar with the rigors & horrors of combat and the need to let off a little steam now & then, but this is morally repugnant and should be punished. This is even worse than that group from California that was charging some of the civilian vendors in the Green Zone protection money.

Originally posted by John bull 1
Professional soldiers taking photographs of dead people and swapping them for pornography ?

What exactly is the other side of the story that I'm supposed to sympathize with or take into account ??

Not the other side of the story bull, the other "side" as in the insurgents.

Um ........ pictures of dead people = porn?
I thought Playboy was porn.
Porn turns people on sexually.
I really don't think there are that many
people in the world that are turned on
sexually by photos of dead people.
(God, I hope not!)

I'm dusting off my old 'abnormal psychology' text.
Gotta' go look this one up again.

For your information I am an adult ( 34 y / o ) although admittedly don't always act like one, nor for that matter intend to.

I am simply stating that there is NOmoral issue with soldiers taking photos of whatever they want, including dead opponents. With those photos they are free to do with them as they wish. If you are not interested in viewing them, by then for all means do not. If you have family members that are depicted I would advise you against it, however it is still your right to view them if you so choose.

The outrage is unfounded here with regards to the morality of the photographs, the photographers , the posters, or the content. Certainly for most, dead bodies are an unsettling topic, nonetheless dead bodies are pretty common, and death itself the great unifier so to speak.

Therefore it is my opinion that these photos, while disturbing, are not immoral. Thyt depict the very real reality of war. If you cant stomach that reality dont look, or write your congressman and affect change.

Alias Jones

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Um ........ pictures of dead people = porn?

FlyersFan.....there are MANY sickos out there who are turned on by some really strange and sick things, including dead bodies.

Are you justifing thier actions, posting the pictures I mean???

I don't see anything wrong them taking a few pictures of dead bodies...but to post the pictures on the WWW is insane!!!! And to top it off, they posted them on a PORN site....and to top that off they did it for profit

They should be punished to the full extent of the law.....

sporty

I accept the fact that you are 34 as you say.

I surmise you have no military background to speak from? Have you ever been in combat? Seen someone you really liked, loved, or cared for killed?

You still haven't answered the question about how you would personally feel seeing/knowing a picture of your dead child was posted on the web where callous persons were finding humor and revelling in his/her murder.
Would that not anger you?

If such attitude is of where humanity is headed I can see the day when the military just throws body parts in a ziplock bag and delivers them to the family.

War is not a video game, my friend.