NASA Administrator says space shuttles and stations are mistakes big time!!!!

My father worked on the first 2 shuttles, he did some kinda nose work below the bridge windows. I think the shuttle, hubble, international space station were all good projects. Name me a few "other" governmental projects that didn't go Over budget. All 3 of the above componets worked together, if the hubble broke or needed fine tuning they would send a shuttle crew and Fix it. How many times did we bale-out Mirr, the space station part of the program was its only flaw.

As for the international space station, I think they should have developed a new entry/reentry vehicle, one that other counrties could have built and use lessining all the risk to American Astronaughts. Using the knowlegde of what we have learned using jointing Tech we Could have built something cool. I love hubble and can't believe it is a scraped program, this is sad.

The Moon:
Should we goto the Moon?...Hell yes we should, You pick a Better environment to research and discover the Tech needed to sustain Human life, OffEarth. A Moon Base/Research Project Permanet Settlement could help us in settleing Mars and countless other planets....ect

The head of NASA stating he thinks the last 30 years its been a failure, is 1. being partisan 2. misinformed 3. propaganda tool

peace

The real mistake was Kennedy's in getting the Govt. involved in setting design & engineering goals for space vehicles. The problem wasn't so much that NASA was created and became the "GOD" of the aerospace industry as it was that all the aerospace companies tried to feed from the Govt. hog trough without presenting alternatives to what the biggies got NASA to endorse. The space program lost all its vision and competiveness because the govt. took it over.

Originally posted by Murcielago
Which is a space station at 22,000 miles up, making it completely Zero gravity, unlike our current ISS which needs boosts upwards every now and them because of the earths pull.

Yep you hit it on the head. COntrary to common belief the ISS and the space shuttle never actuall experience zero gravity they are just in an almost never ending free fall. For the Space Elivator to work you would need something placed in a Stationary orbit what allos it to constantlly be over the same place on earth.

I'm still thinking this is all smoke and mirrors.

check this link www.defensetech.org...

On the link above you'll find this quote from NASA concerning their Lunar Reconaissance Orbiter: "It will sample the Moon's radiation environment, search for patches of frozen water, make laser maps of lunar terrain and, using LROC, photograph the Moon's entire surface. By the time astronauts return, they'll know the best places to land and much of what awaits them."


First, whatever pics they produce I won't believe. Why should I?

Second, why are they just now doing their homework on the radiation environment?

Third, the idea that there could be any water on the moon:

1. considering it has no atmosphere,
2. and it's half a million miles closer to the sun than the earth is,
3. and that its days are 28 of earth's days -- meaning it's in complete sun or complete dark for 14 out of the 28 days --

Is beyond wishful thinking.


Those moon rocks are too hot to handle, too hot to walk on, too hot to be next to. My flagstones get really hot just from being in the nice warm sun for a few hours. Stones hold the heat. If as someone else said the surface dissipates heat through radiation, I don't know how much lead shielding the astroNOTS would have to wear, but I'd say it's more than you put on at the dentist's office.

There are places in the moons craters that never see sunlight. They specualte there is ice frozen in there. AS you said there is no atmosphere so no meidum for heat exchange while it is thousands of degrees in the sunlight it is close to 3 kelvin in the shadows. Ice may be frozen in crevices and what not.


Is this a fake moon pic too?




ANd yet again restiance this is not about the moon this is about the ISS AND THE SPACE SHUTTLE.
this thread has nothing to do with apollo or the new 2018 mission take it to another thread.

Originally posted by Mizar
There are places in the moons craters that never see sunlight. They specualte there is ice frozen in there. AS you said there is no atmosphere so no meidum for heat exchange while it is thousands of degrees in the sunlight it is close to 3 kelvin in the shadows. Ice may be frozen in crevices and what not.


Is this a fake moon pic too?

ANd yet again restiance this is not about the moon this is about the ISS AND THE SPACE SHUTTLE.
this thread has nothing to do with apollo or the new 2018 mission take it to another thread.

I don't think your moon pic is fake. You can take a pic like that wiht your backyard telescope.

I'm sorry but I put up links and quotes from NASA regarding their current plans to send up an unmanned satellite in three years, and what their plans are, and why they're doing it. I would say this has a lot to do with the topic at hand. I'm not just shooting off my mouth here. I'm offering constructive input and information, so I don't know why you're getting so upset.

In case you didn't know it, NASA is about space exploration. That's what I'm talking about. Please? Be nice?

Mizer, you said: "There are places in the moons craters that never see sunlight. They specualte there is ice frozen in there. AS you said there is no atmosphere so no meidum for heat exchange while it is thousands of degrees in the sunlight it is close to 3 kelvin in the shadows. Ice may be frozen in crevices and what not."

Do you really believe there are places on the moon that are thousands of degrees in the sunlight? I've been trying to track this information down as to just how hot it DOES get up there. Considering the vacuum acts as an insultaor and keeps things hot, and the sun beats down continuously for two weeks -- a hot sun that's at times half a million miles closer to the moon that earth is.

So would you be so kind as to share with me if you really think it gets that hot? I'm not being sarcastic. I really want to know and I've been searching for the answer as to just how hot it does get on the moon.

Thanks.

Radiation from sunlight. Any wave has radiation and light IS radiation. And light radiation creates heat. The temperature does not stay constant... It is an instantaneous change. There is no heat on the moon- It is the direct heat from the sunlight. And if you say that's not possible, how is it that we have heat on Earth from sunlight? When the sun goes away on the moon, it does not take time for it to cool down. It is instantly 3 degrees Kelvin. YOu are absolutely right that a vaccuum is a perfect insulator because it does not allow heat to travel. But the heat is not travelling on the moon. It IS the radiation from sunlight in the form of heat. Unlike on Earth, where the sunlight heats the atmosphere and the atmosphere holds the temperature.

Originally posted by Mizar
Radiation from sunlight. Any wave has radiation and light IS radiation. And light radiation creates heat. The temperature does not stay constant... It is an instantaneous change. There is no heat on the moon- It is the direct heat from the sunlight. And if you say that's not possible, how is it that we have heat on Earth from sunlight? When the sun goes away on the moon, it does not take time for it to cool down. It is instantly 3 degrees Kelvin. YOu are absolutely right that a vaccuum is a perfect insulator because it does not allow heat to travel. But the heat is not travelling on the moon. It IS the radiation from sunlight in the form of heat. Unlike on Earth, where the sunlight heats the atmosphere and the atmosphere holds the temperature.

Mizer -- Are you sure about that? When the sun hits the surface of the moon, you're telling me that surface will not heat up? And furthermore, the heat will stay contained in the surface and will not dissipate because the vacuum will insulate all of most of the heat. Are you really good in physics?

You are just beyond gullable.

AT first people claimed the moon landing was a hoax because of the whole flag waving and different direction shadows and stuff, all that has been debunked.

So then you find a site that, instead of admiting defeat and say it did happen, they changed the approach to claiming the rocket couldn't do it.

Oh, and why the hell do you keep saying the moon is closer to the sun then earth? It orbits earth, sometimes is closer and sometimes its further.

and about the radiation, apollo missions were short, and they knew the human body could handle the radiation. and the astraunauts thought the risks were worth the rewards.

and from what i've read, the hottest the moons surface temp is is 250 F.

Some parts of the moon are constantly in the dark, and some are constantly in the light, and some are both.

the darker, the colder, so its more likely a good spot to look for the water/ice, but i'm sure Nasa wants to be in the light so they can constantly gather up the suns energy with solar panels. So there probably hoping the probe will find a good supply of water/ice near a lighted location.

The soil will heat up but heat is just and energy exchange. So once the sunlight is gone it has no way to heat up. The ground will eventually cool down. But it has nothing of an atmosphere to keep the heat in. The "atmosphere" is never hot nor cold because there is nothing. The ground CAN heat up, but there still are places that are far enough in teh shadows that the heat cannot access.



I'm sorry resistance if I have come across as harsh. It's just that I've seen too many people on this board that believe some totally irrational things. I'm sorry if I've offended you in any way; it wasn't meant. But you will learn that on this board you have to be straightforward and to the point with your posts, reasonings, and arguements.

Resistance, the difference in temperature between portions of the moon in sunlight and those in shadow is approximately 400 degrees Farenheight (on average). The next paragraph shows the extremes that occur:

How hot and cold does it get on the moon?
As you may have learned, the moon doesn't have any air around it. The air that surrounds our earth acts as a nice blanket to keep us warm and comfy! But the moon, since it doesn't have this blanket, gets much colder than the earth — and much hotter than the earth. On the side of the moon that the sun is shining on, the temperature reaches 260°Fahrenheit! That is hotter than boiling. On the dark side of the moon, it gets very cold, -280° Fahrenheit.

Hope that answers your question.

P.S. The extreme difference as you can see is 540 degrees Farenheight, but the average Lunar day is 14 earth days long and the heat that is absorbed by the surface of the Moon takes some time to dissipate, it is not instantaneous. That is why the average difference is only about 400 degrees.

[edit on 30-9-2005 by Astronomer68]

Originally posted by Astronomer68
Resistance, the difference in temperature between portions of the moon in sunlight and those in shadow is approximately 400 degrees Farenheight (on average). The next paragraph shows the extremes that occur:

How hot and cold does it get on the moon?
As you may have learned, the moon doesn't have any air around it. The air that surrounds our earth acts as a nice blanket to keep us warm and comfy! But the moon, since it doesn't have this blanket, gets much colder than the earth — and much hotter than the earth. On the side of the moon that the sun is shining on, the temperature reaches 260°Fahrenheit! That is hotter than boiling. On the dark side of the moon, it gets very cold, -280° Fahrenheit.

Hope that answers your question.

P.S. The extreme difference as you can see is 540 degrees Farenheight, but the average Lunar day is 14 earth days long and the heat that is absorbed by the surface of the Moon takes some time to dissipate, it is not instantaneous. That is why the average difference is only about 400 degrees.

[edit on 30-9-2005 by Astronomer68]

Thanks, Astronomer. Those are the numbers I've seen put up also. But someone mentioned he thought it got as hot as into the 1000 degree range. I'm wondering if in fact that perhaps is not actually the case. Why? Because rocks absorb heat. If you heat something up in a vacuum, won't it just keep getting hotter and hotter? If you put a rock under glass and create a vacuum under the glass, and then shine a 250 degree heat source into it for two weeks -- you don't think that rock is going to get a whole lot hotter than 250 degrees with nowhere for that heat to escape or dissipate?

Yes, space is like a vacuum, but that simply means no air, its not an oven. It would not keep getting hotter and hotter. So no, your rock would not get hotter then anything else, if the sun heats the surface to 260 degrees...then thats the max your rock can hit.

[edit on 30-9-2005 by Murcielago]

Well thanks AStronomer86 for proving me wrong. As much as I do not like to be wrong I like to know when I am and thanks for denying my ignorance.

Originally posted by Murcielago
You are just beyond gullable.


Oh, and why the hell do you keep saying the moon is closer to the sun then earth? It orbits earth, sometimes is closer and sometimes its further.

I know that. Sometimes it's half a million miles CLOSER, and somtimes it's half a million miles FARTHER AWAY. Point is, in either direction the extremes of heat and cold will require super advanced technology to support life, to protect against these extremes of heat and/or cold.

and about the radiation, apollo missions were short, and they knew the human body could handle the radiation. and the astraunauts thought the risks were worth the rewards.

So how come the mission in 2008 is to study the "effects of radiation?" I for one would like to know just how much radiation there is on the moon since radiation is the only way the moon can cool itself while it's baking in the tremendous heat of the sun, unfiltered by any atmosphere, with all that heat captured by a vacuum unable to dissipate the heat.

and from what i've read, the hottest the moons surface temp is is 250 F.

Some parts of the moon are constantly in the dark, and some are constantly in the light, and some are both.

Actually that's not true. The moon turns completely around, and there's no permanent "dark side." Just because the moon is always facing the earth in the same direction does not mean only one side of the moon is facing the sun. During the phases of the moon you can know that whatever part of the moon is dark is getting lit up on the OTHER SIDE. (i.e. the moon's "day" equals 28 of earth's days.)

the darker, the colder, so its more likely a good spot to look for the water/ice, but i'm sure Nasa wants to be in the light so they can constantly gather up the suns energy with solar panels. So there probably hoping the probe will find a good supply of water/ice near a lighted location.

Yep. That's what NASA says. But NASA says a lot of things because they want people to think they're doing something useful so they can keep getting funded. In actuality there's as much chance of there being any ice or water on the moon as there is that the moon's really made of green cheese.

Originally posted by Murcielago

Yes, space is like a vacuum, but that simply means no air, its not an oven. It would not keep getting hotter and hotter. So no, your rock would not get hotter then anything else, if the sun heats the surface to 260 degrees...then thats the max your rock can hit.

[edit on 30-9-2005 by Murcielago]

Are you SURE about that? Remember, a vacuum is the best insulator there is. And you know how hot rocks can get when they're out in the sun, even for a little while. And if the sun is shining at 250 degrees F that doesn't mean that the temperature of the surface of the moon only gets to 250 degrees. I will wager it gets a WHOLE LOT HOTTER THAN THAT. A WHOLE LOT HOTTER. (and 250 degrees is ALREADY hot.)

A vacume is a perfect insulator. IN the sense that it has no meidum for heat to be exchanged so the heat can not transfer. If I put my hand near a fire I can fee the heat without touching the fire becasue the fire transfers heat to teh air which transfers heat to my hand. When the fire goes out the air around it will still remain warm. However if it was a vacume between me and a fire (Yes I know fire needs oxygen to keep "alive" ) I could only feel the heat from the fire by LIGHT RADATION. if the fire went out the light source would be gone and I would instantly have no heat. This is why when you turn on your fire place in the winter your house warms up. IF your house was vacume then anyplace thatwas not reciving the light from teh fire would revice no heat.

GO outside right now and go in a shadow. ITs still warm because of the heat /energy transfer of the moleculess in the air. GO in the sunlight and its hot becasue now you have the air which holds the energy of heat and the heat of light radation. Now if the walls in your house had a vacume like this :

[wall] vacume [wall]

there would be NO WAY FOR THE HEAT FROM OUTSIDE to enter your house or for any heat in your house to escape by energy/ heat transfer. So your house is PERFECTLY INSULATED.
thats how it works.

Without light on the moon you have no heat.

Originally posted by Mizar

Without light on the moon you have no heat.

I know that. There IS light on the moon -- any one point on the moon will be in the sun for two weeks, unless it's a deep crater and the sun's rays can't reach it. Even then, convective heat will still IMO heat the entire surface up real good and hot. The vacuum will keep the surface nice and hot. So those astroNOTs have to WALK on that hot surface. They also have to DIG up those HOT ROCKS. They also have to drive around in that hot moondust. But most of all, the sun is hitting them directly the whole time, for 10 hours or whatever time they were out doing their important rock collecting. The white, shiny suits will reflect back some of that heat, but whatever is not reflected back as light will stay as heat, and it will just keep accumulating, because a vacuum is a perfect insulator, and the astroNOTs are in a perfect vacuum.

I give up on this one I'm not having a repeat of Emily Cragg... just thinking about that pisses me off...