Egyptions and Aztecs. Is there a link?

So when faced with the same problems they come up with the same solutions, how surprising!

There is no evidence of a real connection, Egyptian pyramids are far older than Aztec ones, why the delay?

They did come up with the same solutions, yes, but what those were still eludes us. The largest stone walls in Egypt, the middle east, Central America, and Peru are all still to this day puzzles as to their age and method of construction. The Mayan and Aztec structures are ideed far newer, but they are not nearly as difficult to explain as the megalithic ones.
And the design similarities are possibly the result of independent study, but when you take into account other links such as tobacco and coca found in ancient Egyptian mummy tissues, and elephant carvings on new world stone walls, or the giant stone Olmec heads' African ethnic look.... etc., then the likelihood of a connection strengthens.

going with the aliens theory metioned earlier, I am going to call whoever said that Danial Jackson. OK? If you are completely lost on that one, visit www.sg1archive.com... .

Beyond their giant heads I wasnt aware of any other major Olmec structures, but hav'nt the Olmecs been dated to around 100AD? Rather than the Egyptian 2000BC.

I could easiy be wrong on this but im fairly sure that such a wide gap seperates the two civilisations that there is no real evidence of a connection.

About Olmec structures:

The great Olmec centers that soon developed at La Venta, San Lorenzo, and Laguna de los Cerros, and the smaller centers such as Tres Zapotes, were not simply vacant religious sites, but dynamic settlements that included artisans and farmers, as well as religious specialists and the rulers. The Olmec architecture at San Lorenzo, for example, includes both public-ceremonial buildings, elite residences, and the houses of commoners. Olmec public-ceremonial buildings were most typically earthen platform mounds, some of which had larger house-like structures built upon them. At La Venta we can see that after 900 B.C. such platform mounds were arranged around large plaza areas and include a new type of architecture, a tall pyramid mound.

Olmecs existed during the pre-classical period of Mesoamerican history - 1200-400 B.C.

Zip




[edit on 10/3/2005 by Zipdot]

Originally posted by Uncle Joe
Beyond their giant heads I wasnt aware of any other major Olmec structures, but hav'nt the Olmecs been dated to around 100AD? Rather than the Egyptian 2000BC.

I could easiy be wrong on this but im fairly sure that such a wide gap seperates the two civilisations that there is no real evidence of a connection.

It is a very little known group of people that the Mayans referred to as the 'Olmecs', meaning 'old ones'. The details of their history and origins is mostly educated guesswork. The Mayan records that survived the torches of the conquerers shed little light on the Olmecs. I used the term Olmec in a general fashion to denote structures that are of megalithic size, and show signs of being much older than other Mayan/Aztec works. Some of the Inca megaliths were noted by the Inca themselves as being puzzles. In one case an Inca ruler was unable to replace a block that had become dislodged from one of these megalithic walls in Peru. After attempting to replace the stone, using every means at his disposal, and having no success, he gave up trying. This record is good supporting evidence of the theory that the megaliths were not constructed by the Inca, or else they likely should have been able to at least replace a single missing block in one. The work done on the Sphinx, dated to having been done during the timeperiod of Khafre, to repair serious erosion damage, is similarly telling evidence suggesting the Sphinx was very ancient even then.

Instead of assuming the various things that people have put forth in this thread (like aliens or that man was around before he evolved) why not just assume that they sailed across the atlantic?
We know that it's possible for the society that did so to fall and lose most/all records of it.
(China did)
So why not suggest that instead of an much more impluasible one.

why not just assume that they sailed across the atlantic?

It's not that simple (not impossible), just not likely.

IMO, man overtime just migrated there. Human remains found overtime starting in Africa, then Georgia, then through Russia and China and on over the Aleutian Islands to Alaska and eventually down to south America.

If Man simply sailed over here...that chain would have been broken in terms of conistancy with the dating of remains found (oldest at "A" and youngest at "Z") and showed remains that date as far back as the ones found in Western Europe and some parts of Africa. I seriosuly doubt they had the technology 13,000 years ago to sail across the atlantic or pacific.

Just because something is similar, that does not make it linked in anyway. It's just the asiest and most sufficient way to do things.....it's always been like that.



[edit on 4/10/2005 by SportyMB]

They do seem to have something in common when it comes to their structures and their hierarchy.

They do seem to have something in common when it comes to their structures and their hierarchy.

As I stated before, the similarities in the structures are becuase the designs used were the easiest and most convenient for that time...large base-smaller at the top....it's been like that forever. I mean, what other basic design would they use? Other than the pyramids, what other structures are very similar?

Pyramids are found in almost all ancient cultures.....because they are simple. Chinnese, Egyptians, Early American Civilizations and etc..etc..

Also, the idea that Egyptians sailed to America can be ruled out....just take a look at the writing used by the two.
Aztec
Egyptian hieroglyphics

If they were related at all there would be some sort of link in the writing....a progression (or regression ) from one to the other.

Regarding a link, there has been some work done which shows that some Native American glyphs are similar to Egyptian hieroglyphics. If I recall, they are in the Northeast. Also, the Aztecs were not the people who built the great American pyramids, etc., they aquired them when they invaded. The Lake Titicaca reed boats are very similar to Egyptian ones, and there are many other bits of evidence and curious symbols suggesting a link. The coca and tobacco found in mummies' tissues, and the elephant carving on the Sun Gate. And, of course, the ethnic look of the Olmec heads. As well, the Mayan texts describe the return of the white brother from across the sea. Over 4000 years ago, Phoenicians under Egyptian direction circumnavigated Africa, so they would have been able to get to America, in theory. And then there is the ancient name of "L'amerika" from the ancient middle east, for a paradise across the sea to the west.


[edit on 03 22 2005 by BlackGuardXIII]

Originally posted by ketoes13
in my science class today we discussed continental drift. It moved on to how humans crossed the bering strait and came to america. then, we discussed how it seemed the aztecs seemed so much more advanced than the native Americans even though the Native Americans had about 500 years more. We then noticed that the Aztecs and the Egyptions both built pyramids. well, going with the continental drift theory, we think that humans first came to the americas when pangea broke up

We need to clear up some things that got glossed over during your science class.

* Pangaea broke up 200 million years ago.
* The first human-like fossils (ancestors) show up about 5-6 million years ago.
* 100,000 years ago we had several types of humans (you might call them "ape-men" but they weren't. They were primitive humans (homo erectus was one.)
* The first modern-looking homo sapiens shows up 35,000 years ago or so:
www.actionbioscience.org...
* Possibly as early as 50,000 years aog (good evidence for 20,000 years ago) the first people entered North America (pre-Clovis culture.)
* The last ice age was 16,000 years ago or so.
* People move because of weather pressures (droughts, ice sheets, etc, etc.) The ice age shuffled people around.
* 12,000-10,000 years ago a group of people move into America (the Clovis culture) across the Bering strait. They speak a language we call AmerInd.
* about 7,000 years ago, the earth entered a warm period (hypsithermal) that changed the climage. Long droughts occurred at the time the sea level rose (by a few inches each year) and drowned out former hunting and camping areas. Another group of people moves from the Siberia area -- they speak a Native American language we call Na-Dene.
* About 8,000-7,000 years ago, cities start forming in the Middle East, in Egypt, in India, and in China. Animals are domesticated and industries such as pottery form.
* About 5,000 years ago the first larger civilizations appear in America and then fade. In Egypt and Sumeria, we see the rise of writing, and there are forms of what may be writing in India.
* About 4,000 years ago, the large ancient civilizations form in the Old world. In the New world, climate pressures force people to leave areas and migrate.
* About 3,000 years ago, the Olmecs rise in the Americas. The Athabascan speakers move into the area of Alaska and Canada. In the Old World, this is the time of the epics of Homer, of Plato, of the great Egyptian temples and pyramids and monuments, the development of the Greek theatre, and many other things. The Bronze Age is about to give way to the Iron Age.
* About 2,000 years ago, Rome is at the height of its power, long voyages are conducted along the Old World seacoast. The Iron Age has come, and technology is moving faster.
* About 1,000 years ago the Mayans rise (Incans and Aztecs will come a bit later). Europe has steel and industries and will get the printing press soon.

...and so on.

The Americas actually lagged considerably behind the rest of the world because they kept to a nomadic lifestyle longer and didn't develop cities until long after the rest of the world did.

Okay for all of that, but...,

What the heck is this ancient civilization debate thread doing in the Origins & Creationism Conspiracy area?

Harte

sorry i haven't been here in a while. It in here becuse it is Origens.

i think that there are too many coincidences in the lingual/cultural similarities throughout the world.

the lost continent of Mu would explain the connection between the aztecs and egyptians you are looking for(as well as just about every pacific civilization with religious monuments, the underwater temples near okinawa, angkor wat, easter island, etc.)...but that theory throws every scientific thought about human history into a frenzy

is it not entirely possible that these cultures were capable of navigating across the oceans? the vikings made it to nova scotia and that's a far more arduous journey(in regards to climate)...

i mean...easter island alone should be proof that travel across the oceans by a primitive culture is possible(unless of course it was once a part of Mu...hehe)

The vikings came to the americas only a century before columbus. Plus, why would they spread egyption customs? why not theirs?

perhaps both cultures possess parts of the original, hence the similarities and perhaps the knowledge of each other...i think much of our history has been lost over the thousands of years to the point where we've misconstrued it beyond any recognition

i bet in 2000 years they'll think we worshipped the lord of the rings as our sacred tome(sometimes i think tolkien is just telling a story of the past that he had knowledge of...and that they cast actual orcs hiding in new zealand caves for the movie)

didn't they find jade(a chinese gem) in some ruins in the andes? it could very easily be explained by human migration across the bering strait into the americas, but there is a loose possibility that there was intercontinental travel between the two cultures

also, HOW DID PEOPLE END UP ON EASTER ISLAND?! THERE HAD TO BE MORE LAND MASS!

Wow I am amazed at the discounting of evidence of tobacco in mummies in Egypt. The statues of Central American artist found in tombs in Egypt. The evidence of many many likeness of the statues of the indigenous population while looking at the hairstyles and helmets of the giant heads that can be traced to the modern country of Ghana and Stories of the voyage. There was a trade route from Africa to Central America They aleady proven boats could use the trade winds to get back and forth.

“The Indians of this Espanola said there had come to Espanola a black people who have the tops of their spears made of a metal which they called gua-nin, of which he [Columbus] had sent samples to the Sovereigns to have them assayed, when it was found that of 32 parts, 18 were of gold, 6 of silver and 8 of copper. The origin of the word guanin may be tracked down in the Mande languages of West Africa, through Mandigo, Kabunga, Toronka, Kankanka, Banbara, Mande and Vei. In Vei, we have the form of the word ka-ni which, transliterated into native phonetics, would give us gua-nin.”

Bambara werewolf cult whose head is known as amantigi (heads of faith) appeared in Mexican rituals as amanteca. The ceremonies accompanying these rituals are too identical to have been independently evolved among peoples who have had no previous encounter. Talking devil is called Hore in Mandigo, and Haure in Carib. In the American language of Nahuatl a waistcloth is called maxtli, in Malinke it's masiti. The female loincloth is nagua in Mexico, it is nagba in Mande.

The Griots - traditional historians and masters of orature - 'Oral Literature' in Mali, have stories about their King, Abubakari the second, grandson of Sundiata, the founder of the Mali Empire (larger than the Holy Roman Empire), who set out on a great expedition of large boats in 1311. None of the boats returned to Mali, but curiously around this time evidence of contact between West Africans and Mexicans appear in strata in America in an overwhelming combination of artifacts and cultural parallels.

Banana, yam, beans and gourd are Old World plants that predates Columbus in the Americas. How did they get there? While the last [gourd] could have been transported by the ocean currents, the first three cannot survive such prolonged exposure. “The African word for banana runs right through these American languages.”

Good point blackthought. Your right about the bannana's, yam's and bean's not being able to survive the journey, but your said look at how the word bannana has gone through our language. There are many words like that out there.
I would like to revisite a point made earlier. Byrd said that the first human-like fossils showed up 5-6 million years ago. Correct me if Im wrong, but the human bone, like all other bones on the planet earth, will eventually decay due to half-lifes, otherwise known as radioactive decay. It is possible that the bones of the (This term is just used as a title, seeing as their body structure and mental capacity were much simpiler back then.) "humans" back then, have gone through radioactive decay, and they no longer exist. This is all just speculation on my part.
The "floor" is now open to debate.

[edit on 14-3-2006 by ketoes13]

As far as sunken land masses, some history is ILLUMINATING on this.

Before wegener's idea of contintental drift and the modern idea of plate tectonics, scientists needed to explain some odd evidences.

There were, for example, fossil species found on the west coast of africa, and the east coast of s. america, ones that couldn't've drifted along the ocean. There are also, in modern times, lemurs in madagascar, and india, but not in the continental lands in between, how'd they get there?

So what was proposed was that masses of land sank and rose at different times of earth's history. They called the landbridge between madagascar and india 'lemur-ia' because of the lemurs. And they supposed that there were other ones in the atlantic, or even that the polynesian islands today are the mountain-tops of a mostly submerged continent. It was a good enough explanation of the evidence. It was a scientific idea.

Then esoteric types latched onto this. Primarily it started with Helene Blatvastsky, the founder of the new age Theosophical Movement. She said that not only did lemuria exist, but that it was inhabited by primitive types of man called 'root races', and that as the continents sank the survivors became more advanced until they became like modern man. (as an aside, this general idea was in the context of the 'aryan' theory, that europeans were descfended from an aryan race, etc).

The big problem occured when scientists were able to examine the ocean floors. There were NO sunken continents!

And then as more evidence accumulated that favoured plate tectonics, it was realized that there was no need for places like Lemuria to explain lemur distributions, or Mu to explain the similarities in language between polynesians, or atlantis to explain Plato's story, or Pan to explain north american divisions.