Propaganda, let's learn about it

US politics on both sides use propaganda tactics.
I'm hoping we can all gain some insight and learn which catch phrases and words lead us to negative feelings about the other side, and other parties.
Both parties use progpaganda to sway our thoughts, get us away from other potential parties that might do this country some good, and also use propaganda on people that both sides like and dislike.

With this in mind I hope we can all become more enlightened and be able to pin point who the real enemy is & why they want to keep us deaf, dumb, and blind.

www.propagandacritic.com...

I urge everyone to do some research on this in their own time as these parties are pulling at the fabric of our society and constitution.

Do you believe these parties use these tactics? If you believe both sides use it are you willing to change your views? Are you willing change your vote?

I say this because I truly believe both parties are one in the same, we get the same kind of dis respect from both sides, they both have in the past and present tried to legislate and enforce what kind of morality they thought the nation should live under, both parties are guilty of strong arming american citizens and unnecesary murder of american adults, children, and babies on us soil...

I wish we lived in a nation where political parties didn't exist, and true patriotic statemen ran for congress, the senate, and president, and we would know about these people not because of how much money they had in order to be able to appear on television for us to see and listen to but rather because they stood true to the constitution and the original foundation of this country and that would be good enough.

But thats not the name of the game anymore and as a supporter of these people I know how hard it is for them to get a voice in the media... Being noble means diddly anymore.

Propaganda, let's learn about it, let's apply it to all parties. Some will remain ignorant and that's their right, some will recognize it for what it is and be disgusted and feel duped and I believe thats the first step to changing our political arena.

I believe in libertarianism because they are the party that is closest to what the founding fathers stood for. Even though those men weren't a party per se, they each believed in principles that today's libertarian party remembers and honours in their platform.

Would I like all to be a libertarian and vote for them, well sure I would, that would change america to the point where we would have less red tape, more self sufficiency, the ability to really be free and not worry about law enforcement unless you were doing something bad to someone else or their property, ect..

But this will not happen for a very long time, as both main parties have stereotyped this party to the point where most people think the party members are nuts or anarchists who want to run wild and make moonshine all day and smoke pot on their job and remain unproductive ill members of society.

We've been tarnished and the media helped them, we've been propagated against to keep people focused on the two parties that could remain in power.

Other parties cannot legally debate the main two... I like the constitution party, they also honor the constitution and the foundations, the green party has some good ideas to preserve the environment and ecosystem, they are closer to liberalism though which runs off a platform of more social programs and nanny-state ideology, ralph nader has some really good platforms when it comes to corporations running these main parties behind the scenes, or what media refers to as lobbyists, and these could include individuals like george soros or groups like project for new american century.

America has parties that need to come to the forefront of politics and be able to stand side by side with the 'cons' and 'libs' and be legally allowed to debate with them...


I ask you, is that true freedom? Is this republic like the people's 'republic' of china?

Cuz those two parties seem to have 'full' control of the political field and what they say goes... Is this political freedom?

-------

Here is an example of what the GOP candidates were told to use when speaking about themselves or their policies.
www.propagandacritic.com...
Actively
Activist
Building
Candid(ly)
Care(ing)
Challenge
Change
Children
Choice/choose
Citizen
Commitment
Common sense
Compete
Confident
Conflict
Control
Courage
Crusade
Debate
Dream
Duty
Eliminate good-time in prison
Empower(ment)
Fair
Family
Freedom
Hard work
Help
Humane
Incentive
Initiative
Lead
Learn
Legacy
Liberty
Light
Listen
Mobilize
Moral
Movement
Opportunity
Passionate
Peace
Pioneer
Precious
Premise
Preserve
Principle(d)
Pristine
Pro-(issue) flag, children, environment
Prosperity
Protect
Proud/pride
Provide
Reform
Rights
Share
Strength
Success
Tough
Truth
Unique
Vision
We/us/our
Workfare

This is the list of negative words and phrases that GOP candidates were told to use when speaking about their opponents.

"Compassion" is not enough.
Anti-(issue) flag, family, child, jobs
Betray
Coercion
Collapse
Consequences
Corruption
Crisis
Decay
Deeper
Destroy
Destructive
Devour
Endanger
Failure
Greed
Hypocrisy
Ideological
Impose
Incompetent
Insecure
Liberal
Lie
Limit(s)
Pathetic
Permissive attitude
Radical
Self-serving
Sensationalists
Shallow
Sick
They/them
Threaten
Traitors
Unionized bureaucracy
Urgent
Waste

[edit on 26-9-2005 by TrueLies]

It is not.

The Democrats and the Republicans have such a large monopoly on the political process in this nation that it is amazing that many in this country calls themselves "free".

Why is it that the last two Presidential debates had just Republican and Democrats? Libertarians, Greens, Consitutional party canidates were Excluded from them on purpose despite lawsuites and critism. They too were legitiamate canidates for office.. but were denied a opportunity to debate thier opponents.

The Press and many Democrats and Republicans scream that the minor parties "steal" votes from the large party canidates. I can remember when CBS news use to repeat how" The "US uses a Two Party system of government that should be copied by the rest of the world!". This kind of retoric is repeated so many times that many believe that its true.

The media Especially likes to "tsk tsk tsk" any statement commming from politicans that are from any party other than Democrats or Republicans.

I can remember when I was in High School and was told by the government class teacher that "your wasting your vote" if you vote for a minor party canidate. This is a common theme even to private debaters.. Especially at the Freerepublic.com site. When I first joined the debaters there.. it was conservatives and libertarian minded folks who debated and keep folks informed of news on the site. Now its a rapid conservative web site and libertarians are hounded for speaking against conservative ideals or canidates in any way. They there say Excatly the same thing.. "Its a wasted vote if you do not vote Republican".

I think you hit the nail on the head.. the Democrats and Repbulcians wish to keep the public by large "dumbed" to only considering the two large parties as political options in order to stay in control. No Free thinking is allowed so to speak. They also count on the public apathy to the polticial process so they remain in control.

as posted by TrueLies
I wish we lived in a nation where political parties didn't exist, and true patriotic statemen ran for congress, the senate, and president, and we would know about these people not because of how much money they had in order to be able to appear on television for us to see and listen to but rather because they stood true to the constitution and the original foundation of this country and that would be good enough.

This wish will not ever happen, TrueLies.
Political parties have existed since before the first established government ever took hold or was created.
There are always two sides to a story.
As such, there are varying opinions and thoughts to how something should be regulated, sanctioned, led, or ruled.
History will indicate thus.

Do you really think that the Founding Fathers sought independence from England and King George III for the sake of freedom and liberty?
I find it ironic that they, the Founding Fathers, were of the upper class, the Gentry class. I also find it ironic that they all had alternate/ulterior motives and purposes for seeking freedom and liberty when the decision was made to declare independence. They all wished to preserve their own fortunes and properties, first and foremost. Freedom and liberty and the final decision to declare independence from England was simply so that they could be the one's to rule/govern America, all the while, preserving what they had intended to preserve: their fortunes and properties. Btw, there were parties then: you had Royalist, Loyalists, Whigs, etc.

Go back in time to when the first ancient governments were created. They all had political parties or factions or sects. Communism, socialism, fascism, etc. all have political parties, factions, etc.

If the issue is to why there are only two distinct parties within US politics, again, history will indicate that that is pretty much the way it has been, per se.' Those parties that exist today, such as the Libertarians, Constitutionalists, Green Party, Communist Party, etc. all know what hurdles they have to jump to get into the mix with the dominant two: Democrats and Republicans. They also know the process of getting a candidate into a horse race against or with the dominant two. I shed no tears as to why they have not been more of a factor.
It is simply the way it is.

Want change or a alternate difference? Then advocate reform, because other than that, there is no getting away from political parties, no matter the form of government or is there any way of getting rid of those parties that are dominant and those that are rarely a factor. Again, the system is the way it is for a purpose, and that is backed by history.





seekerof

[edit on 28-9-2005 by Seekerof]

Seekerof,

That post seemed rather apathetic, how can you say you shed no tears for other political parties? These other parties are fighter's... don't shed a tear for these parties (which isn't what I would be crying over either, but rather over the suffocated political arena we currently particapte in not fully knowing the damage we are doing to this country and our freedoms).

I know I sound repetative in many of my threads but thats because the state of this field hasn't changed. And I do support and participate in politics outside of pts. I attend libertarian dinner parties, i've tried to spread the message at the polls on 04 and through mailboxes, I've protested against the status quo in politics, I would like to do more as I feel this simply isn't enough.

You say two dominate political parties has been the status quo 'per se' for centuries....

And your ok with that??

Just because we have a status quo doesn't make it right.

And these two parties (i know you've heard this much too) are one in the same. They both introduce bs bills to amend the constitution.
If they # the same way they claimed they did (to benefit us) why would they try to pervert the supreme law of the land?

Here are some recent issues they've paid attntion to in order to amend the constitution...

property rights, privacy rights, gun rights, speech rights (fcc), religious rights (forcing people into 12 step programs that puts all their time and concentration towards a god to make them sober).

And now the current republican party isn't about small government and protecting the homeland, but rather over spending, paying more attention to issues that are off our soil and putting my tax paying dollars over in a country that i'll never step foot in!

Your telling me you don't have a problem with that? And then the media has the gall to propagate and influence my mind so that I blindly follow and agree with everything the republican party is doing?!

That is sick and I find it totally insulting that a government administration is in bed and dictating to the media what they should talk about and how.

When you have a political arena that is dominated by only two parties, corruption and unaccountability is bound to go un noticed.

I am not happy with the ways things are being run, and I certainly wouldn't be happy if a liberal admin was in power either.

Why is it only one way or another and why is the media staunchly in support of that? oh right I forgot their palms were getting greased and their sphincter's penetrated.

I can't trust anybody in washington and I certainly cannot go along with the status quo because of it.

I am amazed that such an intelligent being as yourself advocates for this brand of democracy, just because it's 'been this way forever'...

TrueLies, how much of it is due to these parties themself?

Maybe they should stop blaming the 'two' larger parties and claiming they control everything and get out there and change opinion?

Look at this site for example, look at the thousands of people that see it...they can easily get publicity and free media attention if they bothered to try but they do not.

They need a voice and a leader and once they have a true leader they will begin to more onwards and upwards.

Originally posted by TrueLies
Seekerof,

I am amazed that such an intelligent being as yourself advocates for this brand of democracy, just because it's 'been this way forever'...

That is why I have been laughing at all the Democracy advocates in this board... Its because of the concept of Democracy that such foolishness goes on. Both sides of the Liberal and Conservavives will tell you what to think.. what to and thats what the way it ought to be.... because we outnumber you and its been that way forever..

In their way of thinking.. its Now shutt up and do what we tell you to do.. Were bigger and we know better than the individual or minor parties. Their own form of Propaganda so to speak.

Source
Voters in Oregon have twice endorsed doctor-assisted suicide, but the Bush administration has aggressively challenged the state law, the only one of its kind in the nation.

This is a real problem with the United States and many Western Nation's, due to [members of] the Government the will of the people through a referendum can be outweighed by the courts on something that is a moral issue. It has nothing to do with the political parties but the open abuse of the system by every front...no matter the colour of their flag.

Originally posted by Odium
TrueLies, how much of it is due to these parties themself?

Maybe they should stop blaming the 'two' larger parties and claiming they control everything and get out there and change opinion?

They do, i'm don't think your knowledgeable in this area since your from england, you don't see what the libertarian party and other have to go through to get on the ballot. Why is it that the republican and democratic party are automatically on, but it takes thousands of petitioner's to show the courts that the other parties should be allowed on the ballot as well.

And then to get arrested when these other presidential candidates try to enter the debates with the rep and dem pres candidates.

This is democracy? They are consistently changing the hearts and minds or people across the country, it's a slower pace because the media will not get them the time of day because they are in bed with the big two parties.

They need a voice and a leader and once they have a true leader they will begin to more onwards and upwards.

Maybe thats how it is where your from, but here you need money, and you need to be able to grease a few palms.

Peroutka and Badnarik were far better leaders and they were truer then the dem and rep leaders in the pres election. But that didn't matter.
They didn't have as much funds as the big two.

TrueLies, you didn't understand my point.

The United Kingdom is also about money, however iti s possible to get elected without having a large amount of capital behind you it is just a lot harder. I actually work part-time for a political party known as 'Your Party' and work with the 'Independent Network' in the United Kingdom and we managed to get three people elected last time around with only minimul money. However it took us thousands of events over two years as well as constant door to door knocking, etc. It can be done however too many people do what you are doing and play the blame game. "We didn't get elected because they control everything."

No they just control a lot of things. If people try things can be changed but the problem is people just complain about their actions and about what is going on instead of getting out there are trying.

As for Peroutka and Badnarik, I actually have seen speak live and lack the charisma that they need as a third political party and this is a major problem. People will not get behind them. It's a shame to say it but you need someone who can whip the crowd up and get them behind him and his views and will follow the platform and help the people out to get into power. Until they can get that support on a grass-roots level things won't change and at the moment they do not have a leader who can do that.

Originally posted by Odium
TrueLies, you didn't understand my point.

The United Kingdom is also about money, however iti s possible to get elected without having a large amount of capital behind you it is just a lot harder. I actually work part-time for a political party known as 'Your Party' and work with the 'Independent Network' in the United Kingdom and we managed to get three people elected last time around with only minimul money. However it took us thousands of events over two years as well as constant door to door knocking, etc. It can be done however too many people do what you are doing and play the blame game. "We didn't get elected because they control everything."

That's a nice little jab, didn't go unnoticed. Odium, you can't possibly know what steps people have taken in this country to get their men elected. You want to pretend to know and tell me what games i'm playing?
I find that ignorant and insulting that you would even jump on the bandwagon of all knowingness.

I've also helped out my chosen political party, would you like to tell me how I did that since your in an omniscent mood?

The people don't make the final decision here in this country. There is a group of people and they are either dem or rep and their vote is the one that ultimately counts. Now you tell me how a minority party is supposed to be president when those guys stand in our way? The electoral process here isn't something I totally agree with.
I believe the people should make the final decision by going to the box and thats it. Count them and get it over with and announce the next pres, not have an electorate that is full of reps and dems.

And I hope your going to apologise for making the insidious statement, because that is totally incorrect and you just made a stab at me because you hope it makes you look more credible to others so that they may cast their vote for you.

I suggest you staytrue and not jump the gun too quick especially when you don't know what you talk of because you don't know how it is here or what minority parties go through here. I would bet my coffee money you know very little about the campaign efforts put forth by these parties.

As for Peroutka and Badnarik, I actually have seen speak live and lack the charisma that they need as a third political party and this is a major problem.

I've seen them speak live and hold a different opinion then you do on this.

Are you insinuating that John Kerry and George Bush/Cheney were full of pep?

It was like watching paint dry listening to Kerry and Bush/cheney, namely kerry.

I'd like to know how you got to see them live when your in england...



I was very moved by Badnarik's speech about this country and the constitution it brought me to tears.

Nader had some good points too about corporatism in this country and also got teary eyed listening to him aswell.

Not once did a shed a tear for kerry or bush, those guys don't have the passion that these minority parties too because they have been around for so long that they dont even have to try.
They have speechwriter's for heaven's sake.

Where's the drive to create your own words or talk about the constitution the way these other parties do. That is after all the supreme law of the land and should be held the highest esteem.

But those two parties discrace it and only use it to their advantage when its convenient for them.

They've been poking holes for years in that document.

[edit on 6-10-2005 by TrueLies]

Source
In various states, referenda through which the people rule include:

• Election of representatives (constitutionally used in all 50 states).
  
• Referrals by the legislature to the people of "proposed constitutional amendments" (constitutionally used in 49 states, excepting only Delaware — Initiative & Referendum Institute, 2004).
  
• Referrals by the legislature to the people of "proposed statute laws" (constitutionally used in all 50 states — Initiative & Referendum Institute, 2004).
  
• Constitutional amendment initiative is the most powerful citizen-initiated, direct democracy governance component. It is a constitutionally-defined petition process of "proposed constitutional law," which, if successful, results in its provisions being written directly into the state's constitution. Since constitutional law cannot be altered by state legislatures, this direct democracy component gives the people an automatic superiority, and their rightful sovereignty, over representative government (Magelby, 1984). It is utilized at the state level in eighteen states: Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Massachusetts, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon and South Dakota (Cronin, 1989). Among the eighteen states, there are three main types of the constitutional amendment initiative, with different degrees of involvement of the state legislature distinguishing between the types (Zimmerman, December 1999).
  
• Statute law initiative is a constitutionally-defined, citizen-initiated, petition process of "proposed statute law," which, if successful, results in law being written directly into the state's statutes. The statute initiative is used at the state level in twenty-one states: Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Idaho, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Dakota, Utah, Washington and Wyoming (Cronin, 1989). Note that, in Utah, there is no constitutional provision for citizen lawmaking. All of Utah's I&R law is in the state statutes (Zimmerman, December 1999). In most states, there is no special protection for citizen-made statutes; the legislature can begin to amend them immediately.
  
• Statute law referendum is a constitutionally-defined, citizen-initiated, petition process of the "proposed veto of all or part of a legislature-made law," which, if successful, repeals the standing law. It is used at the state level in twenty-four states: Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Idaho, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Dakota, Utah, Washington and Wyoming (Cronin, 1989).
  
• The recall is a constitutionally-defined, citizen-initiated, petition process, which, if successful, removes an elected official from office by "recalling" the official's election. In most state and sub-state jurisdictions having this governance component, voting for the ballot that determines the recall includes voting for one of a slate of candidates to be the next office holder, if the recall is successful. It is utilized at the state level in eighteen states: Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Georgia, Idaho, Kansas, Louisiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, New Jersey, North Dakota, Oregon, Rhode Island, Washington and Wisconsin (National Conference of State Legislatures, 2004, Recall Of State Officials).

TrueLies, if they are not getting into power they are not doing enough. There is a list of things that can be done and in what state. Read over them and think...America has levels of Direct Democracy in place. You can challenge many of the laws which are giving you a problem and have them as a public vote. All you have to do is suggest the law and get a large enough percentage [1% I do believe] to sign it and they have to have the vote...

This is why enough is not being done. There is so much more to it than just the election and the electoral college. In fact, if the public voted for it in a state you can remove the electoral college...so on and so fourth.

Also drop the pointless comments, I made no personnal attack towards you.

As for how I have seen their speeches? It's called a recording. I tend to read up a lot on the United States and see as many speeches as I can. Also I think Bush/Kerry give awful public speeches, but I do not see anything amazing by the other people. Also remember T.V. is out to make money so if a person has that charisma that'll capture an audiance and increase ratings they will get their moment but people are making out as though it is impossible. It is not, it is just hard but then many parties had to start out as the minority at one stage or another.

The main problem that America has is a massive lack of grass-roots support and a high level of support for the Republicans and Democrats as well as ignorance of their own public power. You want to see all parties have a debate in your area? Force it through on the ballet and make it state law that anyone wishing to be on television in an election debate, can ask to be there...just get a lawyer to draft the law for you and if people want change it will happen. Everyone has to move away from this "It's there fault" game and look at the strategy of their own Party and find ways to get even more support. Look at this site for instance, interviews on places like here could drum up massive support. Look at Val's thread and the views that has got...

[I also used the informal version of 'live', not the formal. Sorry if it caused some confusion.]

Well, thanks for hijacking this thread and taking it to a level that was never suppoed to be.

You have so strayed from the original topic and intent of this thread.

Originally posted by TrueLies
With this in mind I hope we can all become more enlightened and be able to pin point who the real enemy is & why they want to keep us deaf, dumb, and blind. [edit on 26-9-2005 by TrueLies]

Yes, I hi-jacked it while hoping to educate the people on this point here.

You have a problem with Government control? Guess what I just showed you...an ability for the people to make statute law in 50states of America and thus do what? Remove the Government and their intervention. There is a way to solve your problems but when displaying that it is hijacking your threads?

In fact, every one of those is an important piece of legislation. Recall for example...or Statute law referendum, the ability to remove laws BushCo put through or Republican/Democrats and remove their ability to control things through properganda...

Instead you'd rather take pot-shots.

We learned about different propaganda techniques today in Political Science to use in our mock campaigns. VOTE It was alot of fun to FOR THE LIBERFREEDOM PARTY learn about the different ways,ect also we added subliminal messaging YOUR CURRENT FORM OF GOVERMENT IS INFERIOR to our ads,ect