F-15E + AN/APG-77

Originally posted by srsairbags
thats strange . . .when we compared the f22 and the su37 . . the su lost bcoz of the the f22s radar . . . coz everybody started to talk about BVR of the F22. . . now when f15 gets the same radar . . you suddenly start talking about menouverability and thrust vectoring . . . ? ? ? . . does it mean that bcos su37 is better menouvering than the f22 itll kick the raptors ass . . ? ? ?

Where is this info about the F-22 being so inferior to the Su-37 or any TVC Flanker in the WVR area coming from?

[edit on 26-6-2006 by JFrazier]

Well considering that the only tests that have been widely published were F-22 V F-15 I'd have to say personal opinion. There haven't been many USAF V Russian fighter exercises with OLDER fighters (Cope India being the only major one I'm aware of). I can't imagine them having already flown the Raptor against anything Russian.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
Well considering that the only tests that have been widely published were F-22 V F-15 I'd have to say personal opinion. There haven't been many USAF V Russian fighter exercises with OLDER fighters (Cope India being the only major one I'm aware of). I can't imagine them having already flown the Raptor against anything Russian.

That's what I was thinking. All we get right now from the USAF is that the Raptor has been cleared for full roll,yaw, and pitch control from +60 to -40 AoA and that it can turn at 9.5G. We'll probably never learn of what the F-22 could do against a TVC Flanker unless the USAF does a little training with the MKI's at Cope India.

We know that the Eurofighter has engaged in DACT training with the F-22 but no one ever said anything about that.

[edit on 26-6-2006 by JFrazier]

I heard a little blurb about the Eurofighter radar having an extremely hard time detecting the Raptors, but that's all I ever heard about it.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
I heard a little blurb about the Eurofighter radar having an extremely hard time detecting the Raptors, but that's all I ever heard about it.

I would hope they'd have a hard time. I've got a good pic though.




[edit on 26-6-2006 by JFrazier]

thats cause the raptor is in a completely different league of its own . . the eurofighters dont have a chance . . . btw nice pic

Originally posted by Zaphod58
I can't imagine them having already flown the Raptor against anything Russian.

I can, do they not have some MiG-29s and Su-27s at Nellis?



Anyway, in my personal opinion the F-22 does make concessions from manouverability [energy bleed at higher AoAs]. The use of the intake body as a form of LERX would not be as efficient as the optimised LERX found on the Flanker.

However, as most would know, WVR is not really a fight you want to enter with anyone, let alone a super-flanker with all the mod-cons. All it takes is a lucky shot and a 20 year old plane can take out a state-of-the-art 300 million apiece machine.

Originally posted by srsairbags
thats cause the raptor is in a completely different league of its own

then why do you keep comparing it to the su-37?

justin

EDIT:spelling

[edit on 27-6-2006 by justin_barton3]

Originally posted by kilcoo316
I can, do they not have some MiG-29s and Su-27s at Nellis?

I’m not sure about Su-27’s but I know that they have Mig-29’s, in the past the US invited Germany to Red Flag in order to train against modernized Mig’s but this is no longer possible as Germany does not operate the Mig-29 anymore.

The Weapons Museum at Nellis or the Threat Training Facility (TTF) as it is officially know was established in 1976 under what was then the 4513th Tactical Training Group. During the past 23 years, the TTF has grown from a few anti-aircraft artillery (AAA) pieces to a large diversity of foreign weapons which include surface-to-air and air-to-surface missiles, aircraft, armored vehicles, and numerous types of small arms.

Some of the most recent acquisitions to the yard include a MiG-29/Fulcrum, MiG-23/Flogger, an Iraqi Mi-24/Hind D helicopter, an actual SA-8/Gecko and an SA-6/Gainful missile, replacing an existing full size replica.

Link

Just a little tidbit that IS on topic here. A recent AWST article regarding funding issues surrounding the Raptor seemed to indicate that lawmakers had raided some of the funds that had been ear marked for the AESA upgrade of the F-15. If it could curtail the numbers of Golden Eagles out there.

Originally posted by kilcoo316

Anyway, in my personal opinion the F-22 does make concessions from manouverability [energy bleed at higher AoAs]. The use of the intake body as a form of LERX would not be as efficient as the optimised LERX found on the Flanker.

Maybe, but we'll probably never know how effective the F-22's LERX design really is. If the design is at least as advanced as the F-22 intake design then I think it will work pretty well.

Originally posted by COWlan
APG-77 on F-15E? Wow, that would put F-15E at the same level as the Raptor. Execellent, the moolah is gonna be a lot though.

Originally posted by JFrazier

Originally posted by srsairbags
thats strange . . .when we compared the f22 and the su37 . . the su lost bcoz of the the f22s radar . . . coz everybody started to talk about BVR of the F22. . . now when f15 gets the same radar . . you suddenly start talking about menouverability and thrust vectoring . . . ? ? ? . . does it mean that bcos su37 is better menouvering than the f22 itll kick the raptors ass . . ? ? ?

Where is this info about the F-22 being so inferior to the Su-37 or any TVC Flanker in the WVR area coming from?

[edit on 26-6-2006 by JFrazier]

del culo.

U2U sent for 1-liner



[edit on 27-6-2006 by masqua]

cmon ppl plz dont get iverted . . this threads about the f15 and the new f22 radar . . . which kinda makes the package hell attractive . . . . i feel that the raptor is just too costly for what it actually does . . . ( does very little than what a f15 can do payload wise and range wise) . . . .

Originally posted by srsairbags
cmon ppl plz dont get iverted . . this threads about the f15 and the new f22 radar . . . which kinda makes the package hell attractive . . . . i feel that the raptor is just too costly for what it actually does . . . ( does very little than what a f15 can do payload wise and range wise) . . . .

Um...payoad and range do not make a fighter beisides this radar is going into the F-15E which is a bomb truck. The F-22 has much better supersonic persistence than the F-15 and can carry it's weapons internally which is always a good advantage to have. The USAF will make supersonic capability an integral part of F-22's missions. The F-22 also has much better situational awreness than the F-15 which can help other fighters find targets and such without emitting signals.

The advantages of the F-22 over the F-15 have been explained time and time again. It is that big of a step foward.

[edit on 27-6-2006 by JFrazier]

the thing . . . is . . . . . i think itll be great to c the new radar in an alreadt proven airframe . . . will make the f15 considerably better . . . . may make it last a few more years with the USAF too . . .

Originally posted by justin_barton3

Originally posted by srsairbags
thats cause the raptor is in a completely different league of its own

then why do you keep comparing it to the su-37?

justin

cause i think its not worth the $$$$ . . . . ( hav a look at jsf . . the f22 costs more than 3 times as much )

given the price . . the sukhoi is a much better fighter

Originally posted by srsairbags
given the price . . the sukhoi is a much better fighter

aye very probably, but when in the air price doesnt matter. the only thing that matters is performance and in terms of performance the f-22 is supreme.

justin

Originally posted by justin_barton3

Originally posted by srsairbags
given the price . . the sukhoi is a much better fighter

aye very probably, but when in the air price doesnt matter. the only thing that matters is performance and in terms of performance the f-22 is supreme.

justin

performance . . ? ? su can perform any damn thing the f22 can perform . . . . in a dog-fight the f22 dosent stand a chance . . . range and payload wise too sukhoi is better . . . . only place where su lets down is in its dadar dept