So...who carries?

Imas, those are American prices. The market is...shall we say... glutted? Up here, a used USP costs more than a grand CND. The only comparable prices to thsoe you listed are for Norincos...and I question the reliability of a Norinco.

You might want to double those prices, then convert them to local currency if you're living anywhere but the states.

DE

Originally posted by DeusEx
Imas, those are American prices.

That post was directed toward RussianKid. His location is listed as America so it should be relevant to him.

I do not have much of a feel for the Canadian market but I do know that it is more expensive there.

Also I did not post about a Norinco. Which gun are you refering to?

Also many Norinco products are known to be some of the best quality from around the world when you are talking about military surplus. It may seem rough though in comparison to many modern commercial products. The Chinese did make some of the best AK's and I have heard the Norinco 1911's are made well.

I'm not carrying, but hope to do so pretty soon. I think that all would agree that it is a huge responsibility to own and maintain firearms. I believe that the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution is the one that guarantees the excercise of all of the other rights. I'm not a gun "freak" just for the sake of the power of having one. I've lived in a Central African country (approx. Central) where you could not own handguns and long guns were severely restricted. Most other basic rights could be, and sometimes were, tossed aside at the whim of the gov. Mail could be read. Phones tapped. property confiscated and people instantly deported. Held in custody for an unknown length of time and proof of innocence rested on you! People NEVER talked about the president unless it was in glowing, flattering terms; praising his wisdom and acumen. I was determined that back in the US, I would take advantage of the rights that our forefathers said Divine Providence (not the Gov.) gave us.
I own several shotguns and bolt-action rifles. I have owned (but sold) several large caliber handguns (.44mag, .41mag, .357mag, .38special) but not ever in concealed-carry. I do believe that you don't need a concealed carry until you need one BADLY! I have been in several situations where I would have felt better knowing that I could defend myself or my family, had I been carrying. I did receive some handgun training in the Navy and I beleive I would abide by the maxim of "don't carry unless you intend to pull it. Don't pull it unless you intend to shoot it. Don't shoot it unless you intend to kill what you are pointing at."
I would like to carry a 1911 Colt. I just love them and have a decent accuracy with them. Having said that, they would not be the easiest to carry!
Regards.

Originally posted by imas
Also I did not post about a Norinco. Which gun are you refering to?

Also many Norinco products are known to be some of the best quality from around the world when you are talking about military surplus. It may seem rough though in comparison to many modern commercial products. The Chinese did make some of the best AK's and I have heard the Norinco 1911's are made well.

I was refering to all of their handguns. I have fired several rather mediocre knockoffs made by norinco (CZ and P228) and I was unimpressed. Perhaps the 1911's are decent, but they are in no way even comparable to the Kimber or Para Ordnance versions. I actually have my eye on a Para-Ord limited... which is 1500$+ here.

The one thing I have seen is that Norinco long guns are excellent.

DE

It is sad to say but the truth of the matter is we live in a age now where owning a handgun is needed. I have a question though, How does the whole concealment permit work? I heard they go by your age bracket and how many crimes are being commited in that bracket using hadguns. I do own a handgun but dont think its needed for me to carry it around, although there has been something telling me to get one lately.

Well, I used to carry, because you don't need a permit to carry open in Arizona. I never got a CC, becaue I figure it's none of Uncle Pig's business. My wife did, though, since she used to be a travelling nurse and would come home from Ghod-knows-where after a 12 hour shift. However, she gave that up when she started to work at the local hospital full time.

Arizona is a CC on request state -- you have to be a felon or a crazy not to be given a CC -- but there is a background check and you have to take a gun safety course. Of course, she'd taken a couple of courses from the local shooting range, bit figured it wouldn't hurt to get some more edjimacation.

I'm opposed to CC permits, though, because I think they're in violation of the principles of the Second Amendment "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." Getting the government's permission, filling out forms, paying fees, etc. is certainly "infringing" if not "denying".

Not that anyone gives a rip any more.

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
Not that anyone gives a rip any more.

I still do. I think CC permits violate the Constitution.

Talking about the Norincos I have owned a 45 and had absolutly no problem with it. I cant vouch for the rest of what they make but I liked the one I had.

[edit on 26-8-2005 by Amuk]

That smacks of hippy-talk, OTS. All that hatin' on the po-lice...

I liek Arizona's system. hell, I'd be happy if we had such kind gun laws up here. My concern isn't criminals with guns (because they'll carry them concealed anyways) but the stupid git who thinks he's rough, carries a glock mexican and winds up shooting his dick off.

I'm sorry to all you glock lovers out there, I just don't like them. But it illustrates my point. The people are fundementally stupid, greedy, malicious, hateful folks who can't be counted on. They needs them the education, right Old Man?

DE

I don't carry one on me but I keep a rifle at home and a shotgun. If we go camping, I put my .22 behind the seat in case someone tries to hassle us. So far, never had a reason to point it at anyone and hope I never do. I have an old Romanian M-44 Carbin with the beretta still attached but thats a little bit lethal to carry.

Being a good sized lad as I am, I have never been assualted. Predators usually target the weak.

"Uncle Pig" isn't the police; the police are merely the people who carry out the laws. Admittedly some of them are pigs; but the majority are good folks, just regular joes who want the same thing I do: a reasonable life, home at the end of the day, and a comfortable pension.

But "Uncle Pig", in my lexicon, is the government itself -- fed equally by the right-wing and left-wing anti-freedom thugs who believe that we're too stupid to take of ourselves (but not too stupid to vote them back into power, of course).

Used to carry a .38 Colt Python, when I had the need. 4" barrel, blue steel, walnut grips. Don't need to anymore. I never trusted automatics, and if you're in a situation where you need more than 6 shots...

Yeahright, you're a man after my own heart. You're damn straight that if you need more than six shots of sweet sweet .357 Mag, you're pretty screwed anyways. Or a crappy shot.

And OTS, fully a third of your nation can't even eat right and exercize. Pardon me if I want to train them a bit if I want to turn them loose in a car, or before I give them a gun.



DE

Originally posted by DeusEx
I'm sorry to all you glock lovers out there, I just don't like them. But it illustrates my point. The people are fundementally stupid, greedy, malicious, hateful folks who can't be counted on. They needs them the education, right Old Man?

Keep it in a holster, it won't go off. Keep your finger off the trigger. It WILL NOT fire unless the trigger is pulled. Simple enough. Just like a revolver. I actually just lightened my glock trigger. I feel just as safe as I did when carrying my 1911.

Glock is a really interesting weapon... Designed by a guy who is a furniture designer. Rugged and dependable, but ugly. I have a model 22 .40 cal with an old laser site attached. Wife bought it for me when I was simply her "significant other"...

Had plenty of military training and field use (I live in the country, so it's not what you might think).

I also keep around an old Auto-Ordinance .45. It was a subcontract from Colt during WWII. The hammer safety still works and it is a fine shooting piece.

We won't talk about my SKS.

Originally posted by imas
Keep it in a holster, it won't go off. Keep your finger off the trigger. It WILL NOT fire unless the trigger is pulled. Simple enough. Just like a revolver. I actually just lightened my glock trigger. I feel just as safe as I did when carrying my 1911.

I know, I know, my rangemaster swears by them. But the ergonomics go all funny in my hand, and a light trigger pull without a manual safety leaves me feeling iffy. I know a 686 has enough trigger pull to ward off a lot of issues. Without that sense of safety...just leaves me feeling eposed, y'know? At least if retention issues up up, some shovelhead will have a harder time shooting me in the leg.

DE

Don't carry any , no need and never seen one in the city either. Having guns is just an invitation to disasters.

"No guns in our house
we made that clear
we made little johnny promise us he'd be a good boy"
XTC

Much more likely that if a gun was in our house, someone would get hurt by childish accidents. Only time we were ever broken into ,it was a stupid 13 year old who got caught. He stole costume jewelry and by passed the really valuable stuff

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
(but not too stupid to vote them back into power, of course).

Don't you mean "are stupid enough to vote them back into power?"

I don't know why people think that taking guns away is going to stop crime. It is already illegal to shoot someone. But people still get murdered this way. How is taking guns away from responsible and law abiding citizens going to stop this? The worthless low life criminals aren't going to turn their guns in.

[edit on 27-8-2005 by imas]

Originally posted by psteel
Don't carry any , no need and never seen one in the city either. Having guns is just an invitation to disasters.

"No guns in our house
we made that clear
we made little johnny promise us he'd be a good boy"
XTC

Much more likely that if a gun was in our house, someone would get hurt by childish accidents. Only time we were ever broken into ,it was a stupid 13 year old who got caught. He stole costume jewelry and by passed the really valuable stuff

You don't sound like someone I would want to have a gun anyway. Just don't try to interfere the rights of others because of your own ignorance, selfishness, or irrational fears.

Go out and shoot some time. Learn how to handle a gun. You are likely to lose some of those uncomfortable feelings. It is an inanimate object. It will not do anything by itself.

Just like I wouldn't run around with a large kitchen knife, I wouldn't put my finger on the trigger until ready to fire.

The gun is always pointed in a safe direction and is always locked up when not in use. When the kids get old enough they will learn how to safely use firearms. I'm not sure how having a piece of metal in your house invites trouble. How does that work?

Edit to add:
I have never invited trouble but it has found me in the past. Sometimes trouble just comes knocking. Usually it doesn't. Like I said I live in a wonderful area and I've not heard of a break in in my neighborhood as long as I've lived there. Now that said my inlaws house is a different story and we visit them often. My family also has a specific threat against it but I do not live in fear and I did not live in fear before I owned a firearm. I work on my pistol skills once or twice a week depending on my work schedule.

[edit on 27-8-2005 by imas]

DE I understand how you feel but after carrying the Glock with a round chambered for a while I have gotten comfortable with it. I feel as comfortable with it as I did with my Colt cocked and locked.

Originally posted by imas

Originally posted by psteel
Don't carry any , no need and never seen one in the city either. Having guns is just an invitation to disasters.

"No guns in our house
we made that clear
we made little johnny promise us he'd be a good boy"
XTC

Much more likely that if a gun was in our house, someone would get hurt by childish accidents. Only time we were ever broken into ,it was a stupid 13 year old who got caught. He stole costume jewelry and by passed the really valuable stuff

You don't sound like someone I would want to have a gun anyway. Just don't try to interfere the rights of others because of your own ignorance, selfishness, or irrational fears.

Go out and shoot some time. Learn how to handle a gun. You are likely to lose some of those uncomfortable feelings. It is an inanimate object. It will not do anything by itself.


[edit on 27-8-2005 by imas]

Oh I would exactly interfere with any one who thinks gun owner ship is a right, its a privilage ,they certainly has NO place in a family within a city. I would rather see all guns banned within a city limits than put up with the levels of violence I see. Just because your country does it don't make it a right. Personally I believe if a person feels they need to own and carry a gun in order to feel safe, that is the description of a society thats run amuck and lost control.