NEWS: Chavez Turns the other Cheek: Offers Oil to the Poor of the US

Any decent past administration would have had this guy out of power ages ago, through a nice covertly financed and orchestrated coup... Man, I wish we had a real leader, hehe.....

Originally posted by nikelbee
Shots,

Why don't you spend some time reading the links instead of trolling. All you have been demanding over the last few posts is to 'prove this and prove that' when you have not even read the links I've sent you. Here is some advice - READ some of them.

I have read them and they do not back up your claim that the oil is going to the poor people. All you have proven is they are using a barter system to pay for their oil and you have proved that they have given them lower credit to buy the oil that does not mean the oil price has been lowered, you just think it has. All this boozo is doing is buying off people in hopes they will support him. If I were the prez I would have him done in

Too bad you cannot see the bad side of this.

What exactly do they want to barter for oil? I dont see that working, if they want to sell us gasoline cheaper hey im all for it. Id like to know how they classify poor of america, by their standards the poorest man in america is still better off than the average venezeulean. So is this a clever way of them telling us they will sell us nothing?

Originally posted by Rikimaru
What exactly do they want to barter for oil? I dont see that working, if they want to sell us gasoline cheaper hey im all for it. Id like to know how they classify poor of america, by their standards the poorest man in america is still better off than the average venezeulean. So is this a clever way of them telling us they will sell us nothing?

True I see it the same way but you cannot tell others that. They think this is a great deal when it is not. As I said early in the thread this is nothing but lip service.

Originally posted by Rikimaru
What exactly do they want to barter for oil? I dont see that working, if they want to sell us gasoline cheaper hey im all for it. Id like to know how they classify poor of america, by their standards the poorest man in america is still better off than the average venezeulean. So is this a clever way of them telling us they will sell us nothing?

1. You must not know too much about the poor of the US if you are saying the 'poorest man in america is still better of than the 'average' venezuelan. Do me a favour and donate some time at a local soup kitchen or a charity and then tell me what the poorest person in america is really like becase you obviously don't know.

2. You obviously also don't know anything about Venezuela. Their standard of living is not the same as yours or mine, meaning I doubt they have 3 televisions and 2 computers. But I doubt the 'average' Venezuelan lives in a box under the viaduct.

Think before you speak. It is such ignorance and apathetic behaviour that denies the internal poverty problems within the US. There are people that die of exposure to cold every winter. There are people that die in the heat because they cannot afford air conditioning and/or medical care. And all in the wealthy USA - not a third world country a FIRST world country.

I am not saying that poverty does not happen in 3rd world countries because it does. We all watch the news and see people dying of hunger or disease. But we are not comparing the poor there with the poor in the US.

You are saying the 'poorest' man in 'america' is better off than the 'average' Venezuelan.

Get on a plane and visit some countries other than your own. No wait! Before you do that - visit your own country because obviously you have no idea what you are talking about. Expand your mind and stop talking rubbish.

Originally posted by Roper
The guy is a commie!

Eschewing Marxism-Leninism, Lanz says, Chavez has developed an economic model called "endogenous development" whereby state oil money will finance the creation of thousands of small-scale cooperatives in agricultural and other areas to provide jobs and foster community development.

Roper

FYI - Roper - "eschew" means to shun or avoid. ...Are you saying "to provide jobs and foster community development" is a bad thing?


Chavez.

Pat Robertson. Christian? Not.


FYI, Shots, Rikimaru - business routinely trades goods for services. It's normal. Deals are structured differently, depending.

[edit on 26-8-2005 by soficrow]

Originally posted by Gazrok
Any decent past administration would have had this guy out of power ages ago, through a nice covertly financed and orchestrated coup...

Man, I wish we had a real leader, hehe.....

Are you kidding? Decent? Decent for what, America or the Rich CEOs that own it? JFK I can see trying that, Bush Sr I could maybe, the rest? Nope. Well maybe Grant but that's just so he could draw attention away from his own horrible administration, like Bush Jr uses Iraq for.

No Soficrow I am saying he is a commie. I would like to see his Swiss Bank account.:lol Read between the lines. If anyone wants to be fooled by Socialism, go right ahead and move to Chavez country.

www.chicagotribune.com...

CIUDAD GUAYANA, Venezuela -- Standing before a group of nascent entrepreneurs, Carlos Lanz looked less like a former communist guerrilla than an aging university professor as he laid out the next phase of Venezuela's revolution.

Lets look at this one.

www.landaction.org...

"They're going after the best ranches, not idle land," says Rogelio Pena,
former mayor of Barinas city. "Just like Fidel Castro in Cuba, the
government wants to take control of the productive sector."
Pena says he was running a $2 million ranch with 1,700 Brahman cattle when
soldiers forced him off the land in February. Dozens of campesinos, including the Padron family, moved in and began farming with authorization from the INTI, which is in charge of distributing land under the new law.


[edit on 27-8-2005 by Roper]

Are you kidding? Decent? Decent for what, America or the Rich CEOs that own it? JFK I can see trying that, Bush Sr I could maybe, the rest? Nope. Well maybe Grant but that's just so he could draw attention away from his own horrible administration, like Bush Jr uses Iraq for.

America and the rich CEOs that own it. Bush Sr., Reagan, hell even Carter, would have seen this threat and had the right people "deal with it". Or better yet, they wouldn't even have to, because CIA Directors like Casey, etc. would have taken care of it before it made international headlines.

Ha ha, isn't it funny how most people in this thread have fully accepted two premises without question? Namely:

1: Communism/Socialism or Capitalism are our only two political options.

2: We need a leader.

If you stand up and look around you in 2005, you'll see that the Internet is the single greatest tool for changing the planet that has ever been devised and that is why it is being quietly legislated away without fanfare.

Why, when ATS can verify my identity (and register my vote) must I cling to these old edifices of government that require brick and mortar? The Internet could deliver a true democracy to humans overnight and it wouldn't be anything like capitalism or communism.

It's funny how much nostalgia people have for political discussion. Really, it's more about what words people are used to spouting (humans prize consistency) in their lifetime of political discussion. What folks don't realize is that when they argue about commie vs. cappie, they are keeping both power systems in control of the world. People will cling to painful, stupid and outmoded systems of living even when new technology could effect a quantum leap in their lives.

Anyway, about this Chavez idea, I will admit I am starting to like this guy, but anyone who thinks he is a great leader is accepting the second premise above. NOTE: We don't need human men at the top of some power pyramid to solve our problems. Chavez and Bush are cut from the same cloth. They are men who seek power over others. Even if Chavez turns out to be a good man who is interested in helping others, it's foolish to place any man over your own life and property.

Here's a link I found:

www.eia.doe.gov...

...And here's an image from that link which shows daily oil consumption in the USA, circa 2002:



As Seeker pointed out, we Americans could cure our thirst for oil. I'm not sure this would ever be voluntary, however. To do so, we'd have to fundamentally affect our comfort level, which most Americans are not willing to do. While our leaders are oil profiteers, what hope is there to wean ourselves off tha' juice?

About Chavez's suggestion, I think it's a great comeback. That's all. Anyway, why would Chavez want to provide fuel to people in a nation that encourages them to be many-times more wasteful with oil than other humans on Earth? Shouldn't he say "learn to be more efficient, as we Venezuelans are"?

His words here about cheap oil for the poor seem to be witty reply to Robertson, who has never really cared about low-income minority Americans or single moms (sinners).


[edit on 27-8-2005 by smallpeeps]

Originally posted by smallpeeps
While our leaders are oil profiteers, what hope is there to wean ourselves off tha' juice?

[edit on 27-8-2005 by smallpeeps]

'
BINGO...bushco is all about the oil. no way in hell he's going to ask us to reduce our oil consumption and hurt big oils bottom line...just isn't going to happen.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Ha ha, isn't it funny how most people in this thread have fully accepted two premises without question? Namely:

1: Communism/Socialism or Capitalism are our only two political options.

2: We need a leader.

Anyway, about this Chavez idea, I will admit I am starting to like this guy, but anyone who thinks he is a great leader is accepting the second premise above. NOTE: We don't need human men at the top of some power pyramid to solve our problems. Chavez and Bush are cut from the same cloth. They are men who seek power over others. Even if Chavez turns out to be a good man who is interested in helping others, it's foolish to place any man over your own life and property.

You make some excellent posts and I agree with a lot of what you say. I have often said that Chavez is a smart, shrewd politician - the 'great leader' bit is an impossibility when he is attempting social reform in a country that is a mainly rich and poor with no strong middle class. I can already hear the oil barons screaming to the hilltops as he tries to push the 'poor man' agenda to the rich land owning Venezuelans.

Also, despite his brilliant political moves (and they are brilliant) the majority of what he says is canny rhetoric. Chavez has to know that people in the US are worried and upset about oil prices rising day by day. He is 'baiting' the US government and getting some back on idiots like Pat Robertson who can't keep their big mouths from uttering embarrassing stupidities.

It has been a long time since I felt anyone was a 'great leader' and that sadly is just a sign of the times. Besides, there are brilliant ideas and theories, but rarely a brilliant poltical leader - it's just too damn hard to live up to the expectations of everyone.

As for the following of commies/capitalist it is the same old argument of those that believe in ideals and those that believe in reality. Except that our reality is a lot drearier and our ideals are non-existant lately. I think we all have a lot to lose here both dreamers and realists with the constant bickering over who might be a potential threat to our way of life or ideals, because the hard, cold truth, is we have to wake up and realise it is ourselves that must change, or it will be done for us forcibly by others who won't care about what we think or feel.

I am just against making up enemies when we have so many other things to worry about.

Final point - the direction of the internet as our future political tool is a keen observation. We are here after all in an microsom of the world, trying to debate and arrive at answers and solutions. It may even make us feel like we are in control of a little portion of our lives.

wow


chavez is pretty dang smart. me thinks we've underestimated him.....

You mean we MISunderestimated him


Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

[edit on 27-8-2005 by nikelbee]

what are we going to trade for this oil? do they only want cash? and how do they determine who is the poor? will they only sell the oil in run down areas?

As for the following of commies/capitalist it is the same old argument of those that believe in ideals and those that believe in reality. Except that our reality is a lot drearier and our ideals are non-existant lately.

Well said. The real issue is so-called "money", because even if person believes humans are just "kapital" in the final analysis, that person should fight all the moreso for their own autonomy. Capitalists may not see humans as capital outright, but if a worker's life is sacrificed for money (IE, work) what difference does it make? Several of my non-American friends have commented on the American hard-worker mental schema where a person works 60 hours a week just to feed their family. They do not have the things Americans have, and they wouldn't pay the price.

Notice the effort people put into making their views heard on AboveTopSecret as opposed to the level of turnout for the US elections. Now tell me there's no hope. Frankly I am far more exicted about ATS than America or any other political concept that predates my birth.

Personally I hope Chavez's got 100 more zingers/comebacks like this one. His dig on Robertson here is subtle and well conceived. Am I giving him too much credit for being a wit?


[edit on 27-8-2005 by smallpeeps]

Guess who is second on FEMA´s list of suggested charities to donate money to in order to help Katrina´s victims?

...Robertson!

FEMA Directing Donations To Rev. Pat Robertson (Sploid)

Millions of Americans and people around the world have rushed to donate money to the victims of Hurricane Katrina, which is shaping up to be one of the worst U.S. disasters in history, if not the worst.

FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, is the lead federal agency in the rescue & recovery operation at work in New Orleans and the Mississippi gulf coast.

FEMA has released to the media and on its Web site a list of suggested charities to help the storm’s hundreds of thousands of victims. The Red Cross is first on the list.

The Rev. Pat Robertson’s “Operation Blessing” is next on the list.

“It’s an outrage,” said privacy watchdog Bill Scannell, who alerted Sploid to the FEMA / Robertson scam.

[edit on 2005/9/1 by Hellmutt]

Thank you Senor Chavez!

I am so glad someone cares about America's poor and now, homeless.

Venezuela was one of the first countries to offer aid - but overlooked completely when some of the people starting whinging posts about how NO ONE had offered help. People just don't want to open their eyes and see what is in front of them, prefering instead to believe that eveyrone is a potential enemy.

There is a good thread around here about how the US has turned Canadian away as well.

There is a time for pride and there is a time to take the help you get offered and be grateful.