Guantanamo Detainee Says Beating Injured Spine

Originally posted by Souljah
Well, your "Mission" has Failed when talking about this guy, let me repeat - AN ENGLISH TEACHER - who convinced the US Miltiary after 3 and a Half years that he REALLY is Innocent.

What are you going to say to this innocent guy, with injured Spine now?

Geee, we were wrong - sorry for spending your entire life in a wheelchair?

Geee, it was an accident, we are sorry?

Geee, we did not hit you that hard - are you sure we caused this injuries?

Why are you emphising the teacher part?
Teachers can be bad guys too.
Happened in iraq.

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
Never, never forget your dealing with a trained Killer and we don't take kindly to being called "Thugs".

How old are you?

I can see your point, but id point to Abu Ghirab, or whoever battered the poor guy whos now in a wheelchair for the rest of his life and you can see the point being made.

Some soldiers are scum. Not all, but some.

Ok looking through this thread and in response to page 2,

From this point on i do not want to see any threats of any kind, No insults or action will be taken,

Thank you

Asala

Please end the threats all...

Especially the more direct ones.... You all know better...

It is getting to the point where one is afraid to voice one's thoughts on threads like these for fear of retribution or threats by thugs. This is quickly becoming a microcosm of the 'real' world, which is scary enough.

I have taught English in various countries around the world. A lot of times I'm sure I was in places that - due to being a foreigner - perhaps I shouldn't have been. What does that make me???

Lucky.

Guantanamo is a place that is embarrassing to the US. You can't just lock up prisoners without a trial and then abuse them because you feel it is within your power. Power begets more power and that in turn begets cruelty. That's why laws are place. To keep people - even soldiers- from killing, raping, pillaging and just being violent for the heck of it.

And before you start with the tiny children and the little old ladies who were just minding their own business before they were blown up speech - you do not have any proof that this person, the one in the wheelchair did it.

You don't - and I don't have proof they didn't. That my good sirs and ladies is our dilemna.

NO proof. No evidence. No fair trial.

Until then it is your word against mine. Of course there will be biases. Some will sway with the soldiers, some will sway with the teacher. That is fair to say no?

Speaking of - I don't think for a minute that some soldier or a bunch of soldiers have the right to tell me what I can and cannot say about the war, the government and the mistreatment of prisoners. I have earned that right myself thank you very much.

Soldiers are trained to fight, obey and to take bullets - not to think for themselves, not to govern and certainly not to tell people how to think and what to opine about anything.

Anyone who has been in the service will tell you that. You aren't allowed to rifle-butt anyone who didn't agree with you. Were/are you? Were you allowed to decide when to get up and where to go? No. You obeyed orders. Which makes sense as that is your job. Not to threaten civilians and not to spread violence among people who are sharing opinions.

As a former or current soldier you have a code of conduct and you obey the orders of others. Otherwise, Yes you are a thug.

I respect people who have different opinions but it is getting really hard to say anything and not be threatened by those who think it is their right to make me obey them. One of the great things about being an American was that you could feel free in saying what you wanted. Not anymore. Now you necons would have us cower. But you are wrong if you think that going to happen. Somehow you have equated peace and fairness with no backbone. It is a pity those two traits can't be distinguished.

Get real. Let's rationally talk about the issues at hand. If you don't want to believe he is innocent it is your right. I will respect you I just won't be convinced by it unless you have some proof.

And if you don't respect the opinions of others what is the point of entering into a dialogue other than to harp about cruelty and banality that just makes you sound uneducated and ignorant. And threats don't count.


[edit on 16-8-2005 by nikelbee]

[edit on 16-8-2005 by nikelbee]

Man that guy was a school teacher. I can't believe they locked up a school teacher. Our society is so messed up...You know that we have a Cub Scout Leader and Church President going to be on death row. He was about the community and look how they treat him. They call him BTK

- I could care less if this guy were are teacher or a garbage man. And you know what sometimes people lie. That is one hell of a reliable source coming from declassified conversations with his lawyer (You know how to tell when a Lawyer is lying...His lips are moving). This fight should not be influenced by the media. It is the way the terrorist are going to try and win by labeling America as the bad guy. What do you think that guy just did, Labeled America as the bad guy. And we don't even know for sure what happened in there.

- Lets look at some facts instead of throwing out assumptions

1. Terrorist are blending in with citizens making nearly impossible to tell apart before gun fire starts.
2. Terrorists are not protected by the Geneva Convention. They are not uniformed soldiers. They want to keep on blowing stuff up then I could care less what goes on behind the walls of prison. (Don't revert to the stupid argument of they are blowing stuff up because of our actions. If I remember correctly they fired the first shot. 9/11 We will fire the last.)


The reality of the situation: Better safe than sorry. Cause the day that we let one person go because he is a teacher is the day he goes to blow something up. Then everyone is going to complain about why aren't we being stricter.

NickelBee, when you call American soldiers "Murderous Thugs" those are fighting words.

Your flowery post makes it sound like all speech is equal and everything goes when debating. Well its not like that...some words or phrases will trigger bad reactions from people who have served or are serving in the military.

Maximu§

Originally posted by Timcouchfanclub
- I could care less if this guy were are teacher or a garbage man. And you know what sometimes people lie.

Dead right. Priests, teachers, cooks, lawyers, butchers, bakers, candlestick-makers : all capable of heinous crimes.

1. Terrorist are blending in with citizens making nearly impossible to tell apart before gun fire starts.

Yup. Perhaps more to the point, some terrorists are citizens.

(Don't revert to the stupid argument of they are blowing stuff up because of our actions. If I remember correctly they fired the first shot. 9/11 We will fire the last.)

Realistically, this isn't so accurate. 9/11 wasn't the first terrorist attack, and the US-led military action in Afghanistan wasn't the first response, either. This history goes far, far back - if you really want to point the finger, start with the geniuses who decided to go ahead with that 1947 UN partition of Israel/Palestine. It's very telling that no Arab nations represented in the UN voted "yes".

Though it can't be blamed for everything, it certainly did light the fires beneath much anti-Western thought.

The reality of the situation: Better safe than sorry. Cause the day that we let one person go because he is a teacher is the day he goes to blow something up. Then everyone is going to complain about why aren't we being stricter.

I absolutely agree that we can't release a suspect simply based on his occupation.

The thing is, are we meant to imprison every Arab citizen for being in a certain place? Before we start yelling "Well yeah, cos if he wasn't up to no good he wouldn't have been there to start with!", we should bear in mind that these Arab citizens live there. There could be a hundred legitimate reasons for being somewhere. Again, I can't help but wonder that by making us suspicious of everyone, the terrorists are winning.

They're keeping us afraid.

I served and as I said before, I have every right to state my opinion and I will continue to state it as long as I have a voice. Any soldier who tries to threaten people who disagree will be called many things and thug is just the start of it.

Let me break it down for you with NON flowery words:


Soldier = armed and protected by comrades

Civilian = not armed and protected by the constitution

You or another armed soldier attacks me for stating my opinion which happens to different from theirs/yours = THUG.

Last time I looked the US wasn't a police state - but it seems to be heading for it if its citizens are taking this attitude.

What happened to different opinions making the US a great diverse nation?

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
NickelBee, when you call American soldiers "Murderous Thugs" those are fighting words.

Your flowery post makes it sound like all speech is equal and everything goes when debating. Well its not like that...some words or phrases will trigger bad reactions from people who have served or are serving in the military.

Maximu§

Then they need to go away, have a cup of tea or whatever they enjoy and return with a more mature head on their shoulders.

There certainly is not an 'everything goes' attitude and you know it. Personal threats are NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Posting in anger only serves to detract from any creadability the author might have had before. Posting threats is beyond words. If you are that hot under the collar turn the computer off for ten minutes.

Any part of the military that you claim to have been in will be better served by a calmer head.

Jak

Originally posted by devilwasp
Why are you emphising the teacher part?
Teachers can be bad guys too.
Happened in iraq.

An ENGLISH Teacher?

A PRO-DEMOCRACY English Teacher?

Can there be an even bigger representative of Western Values in Afganistan?

Not only a Teacher, but an English Teacher with Pro-Democracy Views.

He Must have a really hard time dealing with Locals....

terrorists can pretty much be anibody who wants change. they say admire about Democracy but then they want to see in their own vision of governmental rule. Al Zawahiri second in command of Al Qaida who was a physician who speak French, Arabic and English. u got terrorists who came to America and hopes to go back to their home countries to teach wat they learn, but instead turn radical and starts blaming America for their failure to change those Arabic countries and starts to target America.

Originally posted by Uncle Joe

You're irrelevent

Six thousand atom bombs and a multi trillion dollar economy say otherwise.

I second that sentiment.

Originally posted by JAK
Then they need to go away, have a cup of tea Jak

Save your breath, I already got my (2) warnings and I don't drink tea.

Maximu§

I have only one question to ask, and I am willing to bet non of you terrorist sympathizers will be able to proffer a coherent and logical answer:

Just what the Hell was a Pro-Democracy English Teacher doing in, of all places, Kabul Afghanistan prior to the US war against the Taliban? What, did this guy have some kind of death wish or something? Gee, what job could possibly get me killed if I'm living in Taliban controlled Afghanistan??? I know! Pro-democracy english teacher! Throw on "ordained christian minister" to that title and I got a death sentence for sure!

I mean, puuu-leaase! The idea that our military picked up the one freakin' guy in Taliban-controlled Afghanistan that they could possibly communicate and identify with? So, our boys are over there arresting all the innocent school teachers while the terrorists flee to the hills, laughing at us from afar?

Gimme a break. You guys should all spend a few days at a county jail, or a federal pen sometime. Don't you know? they are all innocent - the system is rigged to screw them and keep them in jail. They are all really model citizens.......



[edit on 16-8-2005 by Pyros]

Perhaps he kept quite while the Taliban were about?

Lots of former communists ran to the Red army in Berlin after WW2 only to be taken away for interrogation!

Alternatively he saw which way the wind was blowing and ran out shouting at the soilders to pedge his support and was taken away as a loony who runs at armed men.

Originally posted by Souljah
An ENGLISH Teacher?

A PRO-DEMOCRACY English Teacher?

Can there be an even bigger representative of Western Values in Afganistan?

Not only a Teacher, but an English Teacher with Pro-Democracy Views.

He Must have a really hard time dealing with Locals....

So because he could speak and teach english and had some pro democracy views that makes him exempt from anykind of suspicion?(sp)
The teacher in iraq Ayoub Younis Nasser= Head of youth wing, Deputy head of internal security in Ba'ath party , Rumaylah.
I dont support what they done, but you can see why they cant trust even teachers.

Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by devilwasp
Why are you emphising the teacher part?
Teachers can be bad guys too.
Happened in iraq.

An ENGLISH Teacher?

A PRO-DEMOCRACY English Teacher?

Can there be an even bigger representative of Western Values in Afganistan?

Not only a Teacher, but an English Teacher with Pro-Democracy Views.

He Must have a really hard time dealing with Locals....

Yep, I have never heard a person who was locked up for a few years lie either. Ever been to a prison? Why, all of those guys are innocent.

Originally posted by PBscientist

Yep, I have never heard a person who was locked up for a few years lie either. Ever been to a prison? Why, all of those guys are innocent.

Those guys have been charged, tried and convicted in a court of law.

There's a big difference there.