Editors complain about not reporting the whole enire Iraq picture.

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If the job in Iraq was to funnel money to Haliburton and given the president a war to hide behind, How will the job ever be done?
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Originally posted by junglejake
So the people of Iraq would have been better off under Saddam?

That's depends on your definition of better. Having food, electricity, water? Then yes, Saddam was better. Being able to let your children play in the streets? Again, yes, Saddam was better.

I agree with you with the fact that we are there now. We broke it, we bought it. We owe it to the Iraqi people to fix their lives that we have ruined. A hungry family sitting in darkened room can't get to excited about voting. But first, we have the recognize that there is a problem, before we can fix it.

It's starting to sink in with the American people, thanks to the media. Then we can move our politicians into action. Not necessarily a troop withdraw, but the tools, the help, the resources our troops need in order to withdraw.

Unfortunately, we can't do it alone. We need help. Unfortunately it may take another administration to ask for help, at the expense of coalition troops.

Then I guess I'm just too stupid to ignore what the press says and instead focus on who owns them. Having done the research, I suppose this means I'll always be condemned to being stupid, since it's no longer ignorance.



Bless your heart Jungle, I know you ment it as sarcasm.
but my comments wern't really directed to you.


[edit on 15-8-2005 by whaaa]

Originally posted by slank
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If the job in Iraq was to funnel money to Haliburton and given the president a war to hide behind, How will the job ever be done?
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And if it wasn't?

cureme, the food, water, and electricity not getting to some families truely is a tragic thing, but do you have some numbers on that? How many are suffering so? All of the reports, articles, and blogspots that have talked about this problem seemingly refuse to give concrete numbers. Instead they use adjectives. Many, Iraqis, some, residents of, but no numbers. I would find it far more relevant if they presented a percentage or an actual figure. For all I know, the ones not getting it are the same ones who weren't during Saddam.

It's terrible. because of Dick Durbin's policies, many people in Chicago are starving, don't have access to clean water, and many more don't even have heat in the winter.

That statement is true, although extremely misleading. There is starvation in Chicago. Has it increased since Dick Durbin became a senator in Illinios? The number may have, but I suspect the percentage is right about where it was. There are people without access to clean water, as well. It is also true that many people in Chicago don't have heat in the dead of winter. This isn't because it was destroyed, but rather heating prices have been really high here in Shy-Town and some can't afford it through the whole winter. Is it Dick Durbin's fault? Who knows, but probably not. That was an opinion. I'm sure that if I took the time to go through all of Durbin's legislation, I could piece together a reason all of this is his fault, but it probably wouldn't be the reality of the cause. However, I can assure you many of my right winged buddies would jump on the band wagon. Not because the evidence was convincing, but because their hatrid for Dick Durbin makes them want to believe, and thereby suspend disbelief or skepticism. Words can be misleading, and numbers can lie. Unfortunately, as humans, we tend to believe that which we fear or want without question. Not always, and recognizing that truely helps in preventing it, but it is our natural tendancy.

For example, I wanted, so badly, for us to find WMDs in Iraq. We didn't, but the theory was presented that they were shipped to Syria. Immediately I jumped on that band wagon. That must have been what happened. No evidence, none whatsoever, yet I believed. Today, I don't. I recognized that I had seen nor read any evidence to back this theory up. There was no reason for me to believe except that I wanted to believe.

Also, the cold logic of it is that it is to be expected the infrastructure of a nation is going to be damaged during a war. However, we're bringing it back online for them. It takes some time, though. So, to slightly change the question/information:

Would the Iraqis be better off under Saddam with food, water and power, or free from Saddam, though some people may not have much food, clean water or power for as long as 5 years? Is having the tooth pulled better or worse than having the lesser agony for the rest of your life?

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Even if you set aside the total premise for going to war including flat out lies, which is a lot to stomach.
The entire effort was totally misjudged during the planning, with no thought to contingencies.

When the technical 'war' was over and all Iraqis weren't kneeling at our feet as expected the people in charge didn't get excited and ramp up to do recovery and try to sell this thing to Iraqis.

We treated Iraqis like they were sub-human. Only what Americans and a few carefullly selected Iraqis that voiced the American line were what we heard. As soon as some of the troops were starting to connect with the local people funds were cut off and their unit was moved. It was more important to funnel money to Haliburton and other war profiteers than to requisition it to soldiers who were communincating directly with Iraqis to find out what Iraqi needs & concerns were.

Abu Graib is the ultimate reflection of the disrespect we had for Iraqis as people.

Corruption was the name of the game in Iraq.
Haliburton overcharging for gas and other supplies at multiples of what they should have been.
9 billion in Iraq oil revenues embezzeled by, i believe, mostly Iraqis. Certainly that money has gone to criminals and inevitably some of it has found its way into insurgent and terrorist hands.

What an F'ing screw up.

Now why should either the Iraqi people or the American people believe that these same crooked and inept people in charge are going to now do what they haven't managed to do in over 2 years?

A serious gambler would say the administrators over Iraq are a very poor bet.
The smart money ain't betting on them getting anything acomplished.

And Excuse me, but 1/5th of a TRILLION USD and counting is one HELL of a lot of money.
Money and lives have been spent turning a brutal but stable nation into a chaotic terrorist breeding ground and enclave and to the brink of civil war.

What was the F'ing thinking?

My thought before they went in was here goes another Bosnia,
Ethnic factions fighting endlessly.

Without complete new leadership including Pres. Bush more of the same won't cut it. It is NEVER going to be solved by them.

It is pointless to spend another life or dime with lying cheating idiots running it.

Get out and Get out now.
Just kill Saddam as you leave.
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