WAR: Lebanon Detains Radical Cleric Omar Bakri

Radical London Omar Bakri Mohammed, who fled Britain last week, possibly fearing arrest by British authorities for treason has been detained by Lebanese security forces. No reason has been given for his detention and London authorities have denied they requested Lebanon to detain him.



This is a very interesting development, not that I mind; mind you! I just find it odd that Lebanese authorities who are known to harbor terrorists would arrest a suspected terrorist, it makes no sense. By law he can be detained for up to 72 hours with no charges.

It will be interesting to see what will happen with him. I wonder if perhaps a third unnamed government has requested the Lebanese authorities to arrest him.






[edit on 8/11/2005 by shots]

Why is the Lebanese government known to harbour terrorists? Firstly, the pro-Syrian government resigned and was recently replaced. And Hezbollah operates in Lebanon but they fight Israeli occupation of the Golan Heights. Terroist is a subjective term and is bandied about by everyone.

Originally posted by subz
Why is the Lebanese government known to harbour terrorists? Firstly, the pro-Syrian government resigned and was recently replaced. And Hezbollah operates in Lebanon but they fight Israeli occupation of the Golan Heights. Terroist is a subjective term and is bandied about by everyone.

No not in this case it is not subjective as you imply.

Hezbollah is a Lebanese umbrella organization of radical Islamic Shiite groups and organizations. It opposes the West, seeks to create a Muslim fundamentalist state modeled on Iran, and is a bitter foe of Israel. Hezbollah, whose name means “party of God,” is a terrorist group believed responsible for nearly 200 attacks since 1982 that have killed more than 800 people. Experts say Hezbollah is also an significant force in Lebanon’s politics and a major provider of social services, operating schools, hospitals, and agricultural services, for thousands of Lebanese Shiites. It also operates the al-Manar satellite television channel and broadcast station.

What is Hezbollah?

(Emp is mine)

And then you seem to forget that Hesbollah also helped al Qaeda back in 1990 when Osama learned to use truck bombs which were later used in the World Trade Center (1993), Saudi Arabia (1996) and the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania (1998).

Hezbollah: The commission also mentions that al Qaeda received training from the Iranian-backed terrorist group Hezbollah in the early 1990s in Lebanon's terrorist snake pit, the Bekaa Valley. "Bin Laden showed particular interest in learning how to use truck bombs such as the one [used by Hezbollah] that killed 241 Marines in Lebanon in 1983," the report notes.

The truck bomb technique was later used against the World Trade Center (1993), the American barracks at Khobar Towers, Saudi Arabia (1996) and the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania (1998).

Hezbollah's bomb training for al Qaeda doubtless included how to successfully pick and case a target to ensure the maximum carnage. (Note: There are also Hezbollah operatives in the U.S. who might be assisting al Qaeda, too.)

www.heritage.org...

(emp again is mine)

As you can see it is hardly subjective, since it is backed up with facts.





[edit on 8/11/2005 by shots]

Originally posted by shots
As you can see it is hardly subjective, since it is backed up with facts.

Oh the irony. Facts can be just as subjective when used in the context of your links. The old cliche of "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" squarely applies here.

Lebanese people will not view Hezbollah as terrorists. If they blow up Israelis they will be classed as freedom fighters as Israel is occupying Lebanese territory in the Golan Heights. Conversely, Israeli's will class Hezbollah as terrorists because they are blowing up Israelis because they resist Israeli occupation of the Golan Heights.

The facts would say that "Hezbollah blows up Israelis" and you can subjectively deduce that they are terrorists or freedom fighters. Just because your facts state they are a terrorist organisation doesnt mean you are right.

Also the fact that Hezbollah participates in Lebanese government doesnt mean the Lebanese government are also terrorists. Thats like saying the British government is involved in terrorism because Sinn Fein is part of the Northern Irish assembly.

"Terrorist" is an emotive and highly subjective term. You can see this with the BBC's reluctance to use the term "terrorist" following the recent London bombings. They refrain from using the term "terrorist" and use "bomber" instead because the news channel demands impartiality in its broadcasts. This ruffled the feathers of quite a lot of people but they have a point and I commend them for enforcing their decision and not relenting.

The fact remains that you might class Hezbollah as a terrorist organisation. I might class them as a terrorist organisation. But that does not necessarily mean they ARE terrorists. I would also class the British and American governments as technically terrorist organistations. If you looked at the definition of what a terrorist organisation is; British and American governments fit the description like a glove.

terrorism:
the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion

Merriam Webster Online Dictionary: Terrorism
Our governments use the terror generated from Islamic terrorists to pass a raft of new laws. Without the reminder of terror and exaggeration of the danger posed by terrorists (45 minute Iraq missiles any one?) they wouldnt of been able to operate how they have been.

Would you follow the true definition of terrorism and label our governments "terrorists"? Or would you be subjective and ignore the fact that they fit the definition of terrorism and label them "a government".?

[edit on 11/8/05 by subz]

Originally posted by shots

I just find it odd that Lebanese authorities who are known to harbor terrorists would arrest a suspected terrorist, it makes no sense.

Do you know why Omar Bakri Mohammed came to London?

He was expelled from Saudi Arabia in 1986 for his inflammatory preaching and involvement in the extremist group Hizb ut-Tahrir.

Good to see the world is, maybe just maybe, finally waking up to the fact that the extremist muslim threat is REAL!!! Good to see mainstream news sources actually reporting something besides cry-baby, anti-Amercian, pro-muslim blah blah blather!!

LONDON, England (CNN) -- Britain has detained 10 foreign nationals who it says are a threat to national security and says it plans to deport them.
(story)

www.cnn.com...


BEIRUT, Lebanon -- A British-based radical Muslim cleric who praised the July 7 terror attacks on London's transport system has been detained by Lebanese security forces, according to a Lebanese army general.
(story)

www.cnn.com...


LONDON, England (AP) -- A suspected Islamic militant accused of trying to set up a terrorist training camp in the United States was ordered to remain in custody Thursday, as U.S. authorities prepare an extradition case against him.
(story)

www.cnn.com...


Just my 2 cents worth which will buy me 1% of a barrel of oil thanks to the muslim saudis and their $66/barrel

Originally posted by subz

If they blow up Israelis they will be classed as freedom fighters as Israel is occupying Lebanese territory in the Golan Heights.

Intersting......very intersting....

They are freedom fighters?

Are the London bombers "freedom fighters", since GB is occupying Iraq and so it is ok to bomb busses and trains?!??

Hezbollah so called "freedom fighters" in action:



1985: Hezbollah Hijacker threatens Captain John Testrake as he leans from the cockpit of TWA Flight 847

Your 2 cents would buy 0.0003% of a barrel of oil

Also what news channels have you been watching? Finally waking up to the fact that the extremist muslim threat is real? Its nearly all ive seen on the mainstream media for the past 4 years!

Riwka, if you bothered to read you would see that I class Hezbollah as terrorists but Lebanese would class them as freedom fighters. You are completely incapable of objective consideration of how muslims feel about Israel.

Just exactly what would you do if you were at the end of your tether and an entity such as Israel constantly flouts international law and UN resolutions? Would you Ghandi or Bin Laden? History tells us that Jews who feel victimized and badly done to will lash out just as violently and indescrimately (Ben Gurion and King David Hotel any one?) so dont come to me with your holy than thou rubbish. Jews have as much a sordid terrorist background as any other peoples. Infact, how many terrorists were made Israeli PMs? Quite a few if you ask me!

Here's a nice photo for you Riwka:



Jewish terrorists murder 91 people (including 28 British citizens). Justify this picture for me if you can Riwka. What a nice big thank you from liberating the Jews from the Nazis wouldnt you say? What happend to those that carried out this attack? Both Ben Gurion and Menachem Begin became Israeli Prime Ministers. Shall I condemn the entire Jewish population now over this? Shall I use Israeli stereotyping techniques and condemn all Israeli's as potential terrorists?

[edit on 11/8/05 by subz]

I see what you both are saying, it's a matter of perspective.

Side note: Carlin said, "If crime fighters fight crime and fire fighters fight fires, what do freedom fighters fight"?

Just another perspective.

Originally posted by subz

but Lebanese would class them as freedom fighters.

Do you really think the Lebanese people on the street hold the opinion that

• a series of kidnappings of Westerners in Lebanon, including several Americans, in the 1980s
  
  
• the suicide truck bombings that killed more than 200 U.S. Marines at their barracks in Beirut, Lebanon, in 1983
  
  
• the 1985 hijacking of TWA flight 847, which featured the famous footage of the plane’s pilot leaning out of the cockpit with a gun to his head
  
  
• and two major 1990s attacks on Jewish targets in Argentina—the 1992 bombing of the Israeli Embassy (killing 29) and the 1994 bombing of a Jewish community center (killing 95)
  
• ....
  

is ok and true "freedom fighting"?

The terror organisation Hezbollah seeks to create a Muslim fundamentalist state modeled on Iran. Do you really think the Lebanese people on the street want this "freedom"?!?

Do you not think Lebanon's Hezbollah movement must renounce violence and disarm before it can be considered a legitimate political factor?

[edit on 11-8-2005 by Riwka]

Originally posted by Riwka
Do you really think the Lebanese people on the street hold the opinion that

[snip]

is ok and true "freedom fighting"?

Yes I do think they are ok with that. Look at the latest Lebanese election results. Hezbollah, with the Amal Party, won all 23 seats in Southern Lebanon. They won another 12 seats in the North. It's fair to say that Hezbollah enjoys popular support amongst the Lebanese people.

Amal Party/Hezbollah, 35 seats.
Hezbollah is an armed Shiite militia backed by Iran that has wide support in Lebanon's Shiite south, where it is credited with ending the Israeli occupation. Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, Hezbollah's leader, formed a coalition with the Amal Party, a Shiite group led by Nabih Berri, a former military officer considered one of Syria's main collaborators in Lebanon. The Amal/Hezbollah group, which polled strongly in the south, is now the main Shiite party in Lebanon.

CFR (no less): LEBANON - Election Results

Originally posted by Riwka
The terror organisation Hezbollah seeks to create a Muslim fundamentalist state modeled on Iran.

Why are the muslims unable to create a religious state? How exactly is the Jewish state of Israel any different? Can you point me towards any differences between this stated aim of Hezbollah and the aims of the militant Zionists that attacked the British in Palestine?

Originally posted by Riwka
Do you really think the Lebanese people on the street want this "freedom"?!?

Yes they do. As proved by the 2005 election results.

Originally posted by Riwka
Do you not think Lebanon's Hezbollah movement must renounce violence and disarm before it can be considered a legitimate political factor?

Yes I do. But that does not mean Israel can claim Hezbollah are evil whilst they are just as violent and horrific in their actions. Whilst I implore Hezbollah to renounce violence I do the very same to Israel and its illegal practices (separating wall, firing into refugee camps, demolishing homes, shooting stone throwers etc). Both are as bad as each other, to these impartial Western eyes.

[edit on 11/8/05 by subz]

Originally posted by subz

Originally posted by Riwka

Do you really think the Lebanese people on the street hold the opinion that

[snip]

is ok and true "freedom fighting"?

Yes I do think they are ok with that.

In that case, people on the street would support terrorism.

Originally posted by subz

Look at the latest Lebanese election results.

Do the election results really say something? Hezbollah used democratic methods “only in order” to gain power.

Originally posted by subz

Why are the muslims unable to create a religious state?

The terrorist organization Hezbollah seeks to create a global totalitarian order along the lines of what has already been created in Iran, Sudan, and in Afghanistan under the Taliban.

Originally posted by subz

Originally posted by Riwka

Do you not think Lebanon's Hezbollah movement must renounce violence and disarm before it can be considered a legitimate political factor?

Yes I do. [...]

Great.

Originally posted by Riwka
In that case, people on the street would support terrorism.

Thats your opinion. Do you support the IDF? If you do I think you support terrorism as well.

Originally posted by Riwka
Do the election results really say something? Hezbollah used democratic methods “only in order” to gain power

Try not to twist my words Riwka. You asked me if the people of Lebanon supported Hezbollah and I proved quite a lot of them do. I made no mention of what they would do with their democratic mandate.

Originally posted by Riwka
The terrorist organization Hezbollah seeks to create a global totalitarian order along the lines of what has already been created in Iran, Sudan, and in Afghanistan under the Taliban.

So its a "global totalitarian order" now eh? It was a "Muslim fundamentalist state" in your previous post. Bringing out the boogey-man theory that they are out to steal MY country as well? I think we both know how unlikely that is. The last usurping of land on a national scale was the creation of Israel.

Originally posted by Riwka
Great.

Do you agree that Israel should abide by the UN resolutions critical of it? Do you agree that the security wall being erected by Israel should be torn down in accordance with the UN's will? Do you agree that Israel should cease their violent methods in dealing with Palestinian civilians? Do you agree Israel should cease all violence and maintain a political frame of mind?

OK, and what has this to do with the topic guys?

Originally posted by intrepid
OK, and what has this to do with the topic guys?

Not much intrepid, I think we've lost our way a little It started out as a tangent on how subjective the term "terrorist" is. Along the way its been converted into a broad discussion of terrorism.

BOT Riwka?

Do you accept that Lebanon could well release Omar Bakri as they dont view him as a terrorist? Afterall, the Lebanese authourities let Bakri into the country on a Lebanese passport because he is not wanted in Lebanon. They have stated they wish to question him, not arrest him. They have 48 hours (not 72 as mentioned in the original news story) to either charge him or release him. Its my opinion he will be released.

He is wanted in United Arab Emirates if im not mistaken. It could be related to his involvement with Al-Muhajiroun. Riwka could you explain to me how Bakri's goal of creating a muslim state differs from the creation of Israel?

[edit on 11/8/05 by subz]

Originally posted by subz
Would you follow the true definition of terrorism and label our governments "terrorists"? Or would you be subjective and ignore the fact that they fit the definition of terrorism and label them "a government".?

[edit on 11/8/05 by subz]

That is really a streach even for you subz. If you think for one minute that either the US or British governments can be considered as terrorist it is time to seek professional help.

I also note there was no mention at all about how Hezbollah helped set up training camps for Osama bin laden with the truck bombs, no reply to their being in The US either and lastly no mention of the fact they oppose the West. Why is that?

Originally posted by Riwka

Do you know why Omar Bakri Mohammed came to London?

He was expelled from Saudi Arabia in 1986 for his inflammatory preaching and involvement in the extremist group Hizb ut-Tahrir.

Yes I did know that Riwka which also brings up another point he was sentenced to life in prision by Saudi Arabia making one wonder how he got out?

Originally posted by shots
That is really a streach even for you subz. If you think for one minute that either the US or British governments can be considered as terrorist it is time to seek professional help.

Uh-huh you can claim a monopoly on the truth eh? That I choose to believe that my governments are capable of repeating whats happend many times in history earns me the moniker of a 'nut job' that needs "professional help"? I suggest you research "operation northwoods" and then come back to me about how far fetched it all is.

Originally posted by shots
I also note there was no mention at all about how Hezbollah helped set up training camps for Osama bin laden with the truck bombs, no reply to their being in The US either and lastly no mention of the fact they oppose the West. Why is that?

Probably because of this shots.

Originally posted by subz
The fact remains that you might class Hezbollah as a terrorist organisation. I might class them as a terrorist organisation.

Psssst, I think Hezbollah are terrrorists buddy

Originally posted by subz

Originally posted by subz
The fact remains that you might class Hezbollah as a terrorist organisation. I might class them as a terrorist organisation.

Psssst, I think Hezbollah are terrrorists buddy

No you said they might be terrorist. Prior to this reply.

might2 (mºt) aux.v. Past tense of may1. 1.a. Used to indicate a condition or state contrary to fact: She might help if she knew the truth. b. Used to indicate a possibility or probability that is weaker than may: We might discover a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. 2. Used to express possibility or probability or permission in the past:

I have always contended they were terrorist all along and I too agree that Radical Muslim cleric Omar Bakri Mohammed has the mind of a terrorist, no doubt about it.
[edit on 8/11/2005 by shots]

[edit on 8/11/2005 by shots]

Originally posted by subz

Originally posted by Riwka
In that case, people on the street would support terrorism.

Thats your opinion.

Oh, not only in my opinion.

There must be a reason why Hezbollah is still viewed as a terrorist group, despite election role, right?

Originally posted by subz

Do you accept that Lebanon could well release Omar Bakri as they dont view him as a terrorist?

Up to now, we do not know Lebanons reason for the cleric's detention.

Originally posted by subz

He is wanted in United Arab Emirates if im not mistaken.

He is blacklisted in UAE and cannot enter the country.

Originally posted by subz

Riwka could you explain to me how Bakri's goal of creating a muslim state differs from the creation of Israel?

Easy done. Ever heard of UN Resolution 181?