Church and State ...

Kinda a relpy to

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Church and state NEED to be seperated. This country support's ALL religion's. To single one out and display it on state property would in essence show to other's that this government favor's one particular religion. So far, it's already doing that by displaying GOD on it's currency. Why not "In Allah(SP?) We trust" or some other god? Not to mention alot of people don't believe in religion at all ... What would make them accept and want a government that appear's to favor one particular religion? Let religion handle the religion and let state handle the state. The two should not be inter-mixed so freely ...

Hey I'm with ya....

In fact I tried to represent that side quite a few times but was lost in the battlefield of those who would rather spend time in Religious Wars.

Any attempt at taking the non-dogma oriented stance was useless and ignored, at best.

But good luck with this one...

But its not all about religion either its about what this country was founded on and the morals the founding father held soo deeply to there hearts. What would George Washington or even Thomas jefferson say about the sodomy(sp?) laws or the removal of the 10 Commandments. Also remember the constitution never states for a separation of church and state it supports a governmnet with religion just not a state religion

QS,

I know this country was founded on christianity or whatever it is, but the point is ... This country should NOT support ONE religion. By displaying ONE religious viewpoint your displacing the hundred's of other religion's practiced in this country. I mean, if people want to start displaying the ten commandment's on state property, someone better not complain if they see wiccan or hindu law's displayed on other state building's. The gov cannot display just ONE religion while allowing all religion's. It show's that it's just tolerating the "other" religion's while officially recognizing only god.

But its not even a question about religion. The Ten Commandments is what this country was founded on it is the building block to our and many governments on earth. I see you arguement but if arabs founded this country and based there gov't on the korans laws and wanted to put them up in tehre court it would be the same argument.

Originally posted by Quicksilver
But its not all about religion either its about what this country was founded on and the morals the founding father held soo deeply to there hearts. What would George Washington or even Thomas jefferson say about the sodomy(sp?) laws or the removal of the 10 Commandments. Also remember the constitution never states for a separation of church and state it supports a governmnet with religion just not a state religion

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802

Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.

-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782.

Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814


www.nobeliefs.com...

I'm sure you will think this is also all lies, but here it is anyway...

yes we all know TJ was an atheist but look at the declaration of Independence. He still had a christian based view. I still think he would reconize that this is a matter of principle not religon

That religion is the un-necessary problem causer of just about every problem we have in the world.
GOD DID NOT CREATE RELIGION!!!!!!!!!!
RELIGION IS NOT GOD!!!!!!!!!!
God created man,man created government and religions,government creates wars and something from nothing.
So man is subordinate to God.
Government is subordinate to man.(yeah right)
Wars are subordinate to government.If man had control of the governments which he created there would be no more wars.
Government creates something from nothing (money)
This is the natural order of things,the natural order is being ignored,see where all the problems come from now?.
Overly simplistic?,well almost.

Itersting point about God creating or not creating religion

QS,

Our law's aren't based fully on the ten commandment's ... Alot of our law's have been around for along time. Some borrowed from here and there. Word's rewritten, view's changed. Some law's got dropped, other's picked up along the way. There's no way the ten commandment's could've founded this country on it's own. Hell, I'm willing to bet alot of our law's were used from when we seperated from england. Anyway's, if the ten commandment's alone didn't found this country then why should they alone be displayed? Alot of other religion's share the same exact law's, just worded differently ... why can't other religion's display them aswell then? Make's no sense.

Originally posted by Quicksilver
yes we all know TJ was an atheist but look at the declaration of Independence. He still had a christian based view. I still think he would reconize that this is a matter of principle not religon

I'm sorry, I don't see it.....I can't and won't try and look for something when multiple statements show obvious facts otherwise.

But back to Principle and not Religion.....The Laws within America do not include all of the 10 Commandments, although they would include 3 maybe 4 at best. The Laws within America do however include ALL LAWS that every American regardless of Religion or lack thereof must follow or be held accountable. NO RELIGIOUS writings belong in a SUPREME COURT. NO VOODOO, OR MUSLIM, HINDU, ETC.....They belong in a Church.

The Commandment of "NOT USING THE LORDS NAME IN VAIN" should not even be a possible notion in the mind of a judge or jury when dealing with Legal Matters of this Country.

And anyone who says that America "The Supreme Capitalist Nation" has anything against Coveting is living in fantasy land. To Covet is the Driving Force behind Captialism. BIGGER, BETTER, FASTER, MORE!!!! IF ONE IS GOOD, TWO IS BETTER!!!

Don't mix your Politics with your Religion. Neither Religion nor Politics needs any more confusion within it's policies.

I am not against RELIGION, ANY OF THEM.....I DO NOT SUPPORT ANTI-RELIGIOUS MOVEMENTS TO STAMP OUT RELIGIOUS PRACTICE....BUT I DO SUPPORT THE SEPARATION OF RELIGIOUS DOCTRINES FROM SOCIETIES LAWS.

The US legal system came from england,it was changed and the founding fathers tried to keep it from coming back with the constitution,to the way it was when they tried to escape the tyranny of the king,but it's back.
Tell ya a secret,the constitution holds no power any more.

But they were founded on the ten commandements principles and the prinicples of the bible. Also the tradition ofthe commandemnts are enought ot keep em up. They are a good beacon oflight and you have to admit they have good moral signifigance.

you guys must not be black americans who have been here for generations or must have migrated here later to be fed the bull# that most are. sorry the truth hurts.

bisage,

I'm sorry ... could you please rewrite that in english? I don't understand what your trying to say

There isn't enough of a separation. 'In god we trust' appeared on a coin for the first time in 1864. I value my little one cent dated 1858. In 1955, Congress required the slogan to be on ALL U.S. coins and currency. Another issue is the pledge of allegiance originally written in 1892! In 1954, Congress added "Under god" to the pledge of allegiance. Cut the founding fathers crap, as these things were added much later. Here's a link with more information on the pledge of allegiance:

Pledge of Allegiance

if you cant read the god sign or understand a prophet then learn to ask to creator for the ability to not me. and ask your self what i mean not me.

Originally posted by Bangin
There isn't enough of a separation. 'In god we trust' appeared on a coin for the first time in 1864.

Another valid point, as I wonder just how happy God(of whatever faith) would be knowing his trust has been so thoughtfully stamped within money. The Root of all Evil!!

And a false God of worship for that matter......GET IT OUT OF THERE!!!!!

bisage,

All I'm asking is for some proper english ... your post's make no sense

proper is a supposed noble trait expresed to distuingsh division so you dont even or unfortunately begin to understand some of the things i can bring to this table if that is your recourse.