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NEWS: Banking on illegal immigrants

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posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 02:27 PM
Cross the boarder, break the law, and get a home. Banks are granting housing loans on illegals that present an individual taxpayer identification number, or ITINs. They're rewarding illegal immigrants housing loans even though they aren't residents of the United States. Contrary to popular belief, these illegals are less likely to default on their loans then any other group the banks support.

Despite heated political debate in Washington over illegal immigration in the United States, an increasing number of banks are seeing an untapped resource for growing their own revenue stream and contend that providing undocumented residents with mortgages will help revitalize local communities.

It's a win-win situation, they say.

But skeptics worry about the message these home loans send to illegal immigrants: break our laws and we'll reward you with a home.

"It's institutionalizing illegality," said Marti Dinerstein, president of Immigration Matters, a New York-based think tank. "Now there's no distinction being made between the people that follow all the rules and those who break our laws by entering the country or overstaying their visas."

Dinerstein also worried that lack of knowledge on the part of illegal immigrants could pave the way for abuse in the form of predatory lending.

But advocates of the practice say the benefits outweigh any potential downside.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

ITINs are a nine-digit tax processing number issued by the Internal Revenue Service to individuals who are required to have a U.S. taxpayer identification number but who don't have, and aren't eligible to obtain, a social security number. Since the IRS doesn't require legal residency to obtain an ITIN, many illegal immigrants use this form of identification to pay U.S. taxes and buy homes.

"Banks are counting on the fact that we do a lousy job interior enforcement," said Celent's Grealish. "Once you're in the country and you haven't done anything wrong, the chances of being deported are very slim. Banks are banking on that."

I beleive that opening the banking market to illegals is obsurd. It completely falls back on everything our country tries to proclaim with security. No longer do individuals entering our country need to obligue by the laws that were placed to keep the "flood of immigrants" in check. Instead, they enter, they get their number, and get a home.

The great American dream.

Related News Links:

posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 02:31 PM
Boy what next, giving bank loans and housing loans to criminals in prison?
Got to love a country that worships the almighty dollar!

posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 02:40 PM
This is jsut another example of exactly how much illegal immigrants benefit our economy. Besides the tax revenue that they will never see, now financial institutions are admitting that they generate a profit..

So much for the argument of how much illegals cost us, huh everyone? Or am I to assume this is the only industry reaping a profit?

posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 02:44 PM
Phoenix this only helps large coroporations or banks etc. It is not good for the average americanm and i think this is propaganda aimed at the goal of
accepting illegal immigration as being ok.

posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 02:51 PM
I'm sorry, but if given enough time they will certainly bankrupt this too. They have already bankrupted all of our tax payer based programs.

We had an illegel as an employee and he did buy a house but the person he used to get his loan was a fraud. He falsified documents from our office, forged my name and signature, then gave his personal cell number pretending to be my boss for wage and employment verification. We caught him. The loan guy (who is mexican) came in our office in tears begging for forgiveness because he could lose his real estate license.

posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 02:52 PM
Key phrase to me was "Since the IRS doesn't require legal residency to obtain an ITIN, many illegal immigrants use this form of identification to pay U.S. taxes and buy homes. "

Paying taxes benefits everyone.

Buying homes and not defaulting also benefits everyone (if only with the trickle-down effect of keeping interest rates and fees lower).

But yes, it would be much better to pool some of these resources and enable USCIS to actually track immigrants/visitors once they've entered the country on a legitimate basis; that's a huge problem, and a major factor with regards to illegals.

posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 02:52 PM
During the big social security debate, this story came out: Illegal Immigrants Are Bolstering Social Security With Billions It seems like some people love playing the victim, and won't admit that some good come from illegals.

posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 02:55 PM
Not once have I EVER cliamed that every aspect of illegal immigration helps everyday citizens. If you pay attention to what I said, i said "If government was not profiting off of this"...I never mentioned citizens. This nation, or any for that fact has NEVER been about the citizens, so why pretend that is the case now?

While this might not help everyday citizens in an immediate sense, can you deny the fact that the contributions to the economy as a whole when coupled with the contributions to our welfare system might have unseen benifits?

Once again the initial benefits no do not help the average citizen, but that does not mean that just because initial results are not seen, that there are no benefits there at all. Correct?

posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 02:57 PM
If Social Security has billions in surplus from them, then why are they saying there is a crisis and will be broke in 30 years? Why are they trying to get us to set up our own social security accounts? Doesn't make sense.

posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 03:14 PM
link that article again...

It states that although illegals are paying into SS, it's implying that they'll be unable to claim benefits.


"Last year, Mr. Martínez paid about $2,000 toward Social Security and $450 for Medicare through payroll taxes withheld from his wages. Yet unlike most Americans, who will receive some form of a public pension in retirement and will be eligible for Medicare as soon as they turn 65, Mr. Martínez is not entitled to benefits. "

(emphasis mine)

Why is the money being taken out? Simplicity for the employer? Covering his own backside? Many possible reasons, none of which change the fact that illegals like Mr Martinez are paying into a fund from which they'll never see any benefit.

As to the reason why you're being told to set up your private accounts? I have no idea. Government fleecing? Extra insurance coverage for your own state of mind?

That's actually a pretty good question....why would the system be bankrupt with illegals paying into it, and never getting anything back?

[edit on 8-8-2005 by Tinkleflower]

posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 03:23 PM

Tinkleflower says:
It states that although illegals are paying into SS

What you stated above does not compute.

Kindly explain how they can pay SS when they do not have an SS number?

Edit to reply to this part of the post

tinkle says
That's actually a pretty good question....why would the system be bankrupt with illegals paying into it, and never getting anything back?

The answer to that seems to be rather simple they are taking out money from the system when they walk into hospitals without insurance. In that case the government pays it. Not sure if it is SSI or whatever they call medical care for the indigent individuals.

[edit on 8/8/2005 by shots]

posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 03:25 PM
They use a legal uncle's SS# or have a fake one Shots.

Thanks Tink. I see what you are saying.

(sorry, for some reason I can't get teh qoute to work)

posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 03:27 PM
Mauistacy-Simple, because they are lying to you as usual. The Social Security fiasco has in fact been financed for the last 25 years by illegal aliens. You are directed to the projected deficit to help you make the decision that private accounts are in your best interest. After all, it's your money right, this is the society of ownership right?

Nevermind those billions that will be made when everyone feels the need to transfer their accounts to something more secure. Never mind those pesky little facts about corporate responsibility that everyone wants to ignore. I mean sure there are laws, but you got to make a profit right? LMFAO. Enron could never happen again, we have legislation now.....LMFAO

Just because the government states it's case for one thing, does not automatically discredit any other aspect or stated purpose of intent, proposed or otherwise in regards to our economic policies. Not to be rude, but just because what one thing the government says contradicts other implements in policy, does not leave you with any definiteve argument. There are some things that you, and me, and no one else will EVER undersstand, in reguards to justification of certain policies.

posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 03:37 PM

U.S. law bars aliens living here illegally from receiving social security benefits. However, until 2004, the law permitted aliens to claim credit for work performed while here illegally if the aliens either left the United States or obtained legal status in the United States. If such work - either alone or in combination with work performed while here legally - amounted to the 40 quarters of work required to become eligible for social security benefits, these aliens (and their spouses and dependents) would receive full benefits.
In February 2004, Congress passed H.R. 743, the Social Security Protection Act, which includes a provision authored by Senator Grassley (R-Iowa), Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, that prohibits aliens (and their spouses and dependents) from claiming social security credit for work performed while in the United States illegally unless the alien obtains legal status at some point. Although this represents a major improvement in the law, it does not entirely close the loophole that permits benefits to be paid on the basis of work performed by illegal aliens. As noted in the Senate Finance Committee's report on H.R. 743, "individuals who begin working illegally and later obtain legal status could still use their illegal earnings to qualify for Social Security benefits" despite this new provision (Senate Rpt.108-176, p. 24).
This law applies to aliens of all nationalities, regardless of the existence of totalization agreements. The agreements compound the problem, however, by increasing the pool of foreign workers who can qualify for U.S. social security benefits on the basis of work performed while here illegally. Under totalization agreements:
Foreign workers can qualify with as few as 6 quarters of work, rather than 40 quarters (benefits would be prorated to reflect only credits earned in the United States); and

Numbers of USA

Your posting is slightly misleading. Yes they are not eligible as long as they refuse to legalize their status. Once they do become "legal" then they can benefit at a quicker rate than a born in the US resident can

posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 03:52 PM
Sure, shots.

They're not using legally obtained SS#s for the most part.

And bear in mind that many illegals can obtain a legal SS# in certain situations; most of the cards of that nature are printed with "Use for work only with INS approval" or similar, indicating the need to provide further proof (ie, if a petition is pending, or a petition is simply filed, in some cases)....but that's a big, wide, enormous loophole that's ridiculously simple to abuse.

Compute better now?

(incidentally, I didn't write the article - only commented on it.)

posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 03:57 PM

The difficulty there is becoming legal after you've been illegal for so long.

It's not exactly a walk in the park; unlike prior administrations, this one seems pretty adamant about no longer giving amnesty to certain longer-term illegal immigrants who had previously been able to take advantage of something similar (the 1997 amnesty was a huge deal, and there was a huge outcry as it more or less forgave illegals and allowed them to change status).

A born citizen can obtain means-tested benefits far, far more easily than an alien (illegal or otherwise). I've been a legal resident since 1998, and I'm still unable to qualify for means-tested help....I've paid my taxes, etc etc, but that 40 quarters requirement is bloody hard to actually get past, in practice.

posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 04:02 PM
I can speak from experience about how difficult the process is to become legal resident in the US. My wife hails from Korea so we have done the dance with INS.
I also work with the korean community here (some of whom are here illegally)
and I help guide them through the maze that is INS. It is still doable and is something that ilegals who wish can obtain, sort of the brass ring

Again, they have to go for it though.

posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 08:27 PM
If they can't afford to go to the doctors, so instead visit an emergency room for any kind of medical care, thus bankrupting the hospitals.... how are they able to afford a house?

Most of them only make minimum wage. Many Americans who earn way more money than them are not able to qualify for financing for a house. Something reeks here. It's just not right.

posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 09:04 PM

If they can't afford to go to the doctors, so instead visit an emergency room for any kind of medical care, thus bankrupting the hospitals.... how are they able to afford a house?

Easy several of them get loans then pool their money and buy one house to live in. And do not ask me how five or six families can all live under one roof, I do not know; but they do it just the same.

posted on Aug, 10 2005 @ 10:26 PM
My honest opinion is this.. if these individuals followed the law, went through the proper channels and actually became citizens then I would have no problem with this. But for the banks to allow them to achieve loans for housing when they arent even citizens just reeks of double-talk from the government.

On one side we're stripping civil rights in the name of Terror, and on the other we're allowing illegals to legally purchase a house and live in our country.


Since when did Illegal become Legal? Or is it legally illegal? illegally legal? Hell, I'm gonna try this defense next time I go to court... if it works for them, then damnit it should work for me!

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