NEWS: Blair Wants Islamic Politcal Parties Banned

Hey Riwka and Infinite. Take your beef up with the BBC, not me. I simply reported and discussed what was said in the BBC news story.

A Muslim political party has reacted angrily to Prime Minister Tony Blair's calls for it to be banned.

Party spokesman Dr Imran Waheed denounced the 7 July London bombings and said the party was committed to peaceful political campaigning.

Mr Blair had banned membership of the group alongside that of another party, Al Muhajiroun.

The party has campaigned for the introduction of sharia law in all Muslim countries, and has been banned in several states.

Original BBC news article

And also according to the BBC's Q&A section on HT they are a political party.

Hizb ut-Tahrir (HT) which translates as the "party of liberation" is a radical political organisation which has members in the Muslim world and in countries with a significant Muslims population. It was formed just over 50 years ago in Jerusalem by an Islamic jurist, Taqiuddin an-Nabhani.

BBC Q&A Hizb ut-Tahrir

They may share some views with terrorists organisations (i.e. creation of a kalifate) but that doesnt automatically make them a terrorist organisation.

Their views maybe an anathema to mine but until they break a law I will respect their right to voice their views.

Hey Riwka and Infinite. Take your beef up with the BBC, not me. I simply reported and discussed what was said in the BBC news story.

Dude, me not attacking you your my buddy!

im just pointing out that they are not an official or registered party thats all. I may point out to the BBC that their information isn't correct.

Originally posted by subz
Hey Riwka and Infinite. Take your beef up with the BBC, not me. I simply reported and discussed what was said in the BBC news story.

I quoted your Introduction paragraph

Originally posted by subz
Tony Blair called for the banning of two Islamic groups yesterday. But the groups he wants banned are not terrorist organisations but British political parties. Hizb ut-Tahrir and Al Muhajiroun are British Islamic political parties who denounced the recent London bombings

and I thought it is a summary of the story you're submitting in your own words.

How do you think does a terror organisation differ from this two extremist Islamic groups?





[edit on 8-8-2005 by Riwka]

originally posted by spliff4020
"muslim political party" is an oxymoron in its self. What agenda do they have? Do the MAJORITY of brits want em around? We still have communists here in america, yet you wont see one on a debate during election time. Its a waste of time and effort. These people are even lower than that. Go praise Allah or whatever you want, but hold office? lololololololol

spliff has previously advised that we destroy ALL Muslims in a thread, so obviously you're not going to get any intelligent debate from the moron. He is a brainwashed fool that's bought into all the Muslim hating, yet he's probably never even met one in his life.

Not much different than hating blacks when it was the "cool thing to do" is it?



[edit on 8-8-2005 by NoJustice]

Hey infinte, no harm, no foul mate "Beef" was a too harsh a term.

Originally posted by Riwka
and I thought it is a summary of the story you're submitting in your own words.

It is, and I said that my "discussion" was based on the BBC news article. Im not claiming to know those groups very well at all. My fault is believing what the BBC wrote. I was led to believe the BBC was a credible and unbiased news outlet.

That you, an Israeli, would deem an Islamic political party a terrorist appendage whilst others would not is not a surprise to me. One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

Or more accurately in this case, one mans peaceful political party is so divergent to Israeli interests that you deem it not worthy of existance.

Originally posted by Riwka
How do you think does a terror organisation differ from this two extremist Islamic groups?

Like I said, I dont know enough about those groups to say. I was only going off what the BBC wrote.

Also with the abscence of evidence proving that this group supported or advocated terrorism in Tony Blair's speech I again assumed they were peaceful. If they had supported or advocated terrorism then there are existing laws to prosecute individuals with.

Lets say that a bunch of Labour MP were caught breaking the law, should the ones who broke the law be arrested and jailed? Or should the entire Labour party be banned due to the actions of a few? That would be the situation I would assume has led to these two groups being banned.

[edit on 8/8/05 by subz]

Originally posted by NoJustice

originally posted by spliff4020
"muslim political party" is an oxymoron in its self. What agenda do they have? Do the MAJORITY of brits want em around? We still have communists here in america, yet you wont see one on a debate during election time. Its a waste of time and effort. These people are even lower than that. Go praise Allah or whatever you want, but hold office? lololololololol

spliff has previously advised that we destroy ALL Muslims in a thread, so obviously you're not going to get any intelligent debate from the moron. He is a brainwashed fool that's bought into all the Muslim hating, yet he's probably never even met one in his life.

Not much different than hating blacks when it was the "cool thing to do" is it?



[edit on 8-8-2005 by NoJustice]

please link me to the thread where i said that...I guess its ok to hurl personal insults on here, just not towards gutless cowards that kill civilians. We dont want to upset them. Whatever. Put up the link where I said kill all the muslims please, or mods, please your job.

Originally posted by spliff4020

Originally posted by NoJustice

originally posted by spliff4020
"muslim political party" is an oxymoron in its self. What agenda do they have? Do the MAJORITY of brits want em around? We still have communists here in america, yet you wont see one on a debate during election time. Its a waste of time and effort. These people are even lower than that. Go praise Allah or whatever you want, but hold office? lololololololol

spliff has previously advised that we destroy ALL Muslims in a thread, so obviously you're not going to get any intelligent debate from the moron. He is a brainwashed fool that's bought into all the Muslim hating, yet he's probably never even met one in his life.


Not much different than hating blacks when it was the "cool thing to do" is it?



[edit on 8-8-2005 by NoJustice]

please link me to the thread where i said that...I guess its ok to hurl personal insults on here, just not towards gutless cowards that kill civilians. We dont want to upset them. Whatever. Put up the link where I said kill all the muslims please, or mods, please your job.

ok so you're claiming complete ignorance of this? Mods, pffft, for me telling the truth about you? You know you said it, I admit I don't have the thread in front of me but I remember it, and you obviously remember it because they're your beliefs and you said them. So once I find it and post it you should agree to leave ATS for being a lying hypocrite.

Christ relax... It wasnt a slam against you guys, but cmon....aint you even a little bit pissed? Dont ya even want an ounce of revenge? Or are you content to sit there, listen to sad music and grieve? Its time to stand and deliver. Start killin their women and children 10 times more than they did yours. Thats what you do. People need to wake up

same page

HIstory book???? Please.....GB also didnt have stealth bombers or any of the other weapons that we now have. Besides, Brittan was spread way to thin.

You people know what needs to be done. Its just that everyone is afraid to say it, or do it. Like it or not, this is a war with Muslims. And yes...they are the enemy. Has GB heard an apology or even sympathy from any muslims yet? I know that here, we are still waiting. They care nothing for you or your families, show them the same.

It is time for racial profiling and zero tolerance. And as redneck as this sounds, its time for a good old fashion kicking. These people know what wussies our governments have become, and they exploit that. If we all shoved our collective shoes up their asses, this would all be settled.

Enough of treating everyone with our little white gloves on. This is war. They are the enemy, and SOMEONE needs to show them that. If your to afraid to, then get back on the trains and wait for the next one....Because, there will be a next one.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

if you click the thread and keep reading he gets even worse, he wants a war with all muslims.

Ooooh, how it must feel to be caught in a total lie. I thought you were gutless enough when you said these things, but now to deny them. You're a spineless liar who can't even stand up for what you say yourself. So I think if the mods should do anything, as they didn't tolerate a Nazi and banned him, they should get rid of you. As you're just as hateful as the banned Nazi, but at least he stood by his beliefs and didn't try to hide and change his story.








[edit on 8-8-2005 by NoJustice]

OK lads. Any abusive language will be dealt with by the moderators. Its their job to enfore the T&C and not ours. If you see some one break the T&C please U2U one of the moderators.

For ATSNN it would be best to U2U the following mods/super mods:

FredT
intrepid
John bull 1
asala

I agree with NoJustice.

spliff several times now has called for Muslims to be killed off. His posts are a lot worse then what other people have been banned for and he gets away with it.

It's becoming a real joke.

It because some people lack to ability to comprehend what they read. Again, nowhere does it say "kill the muslims"....Yes we are at war. With muslims. Facts are facts. I hold no love for my enemy. I hold no love for those responsible for killing 3000 of my fellow civilians. I have no love for people ignorant enough to believe that we did it to ourselves.

I only have the guts to say what needs to be said. Of course, I stand by a "real statement" I have actaully made before...."perhaps when one of your loved ones is killed by one of them, you'll feel differently"

I know its oh so easy to watch some tv, and make an opinion. But remember, while you sit on your rear watchin a war 1000s of miles away, the kid next door to you might get killed so you can watch TV.

Perhaps the next time your brother or sister goes to work and airplane slams into their building and they have to jump to their death to avoid burning alive, all in the name of "allah" and destroying the great infidels, you'll feel differently.

If not your the same as they are. Im still waiting for all my "kill all the muslims" posts. Pretty weak arguement.

Get this into your head:

ISLAM ISN'T AT WAR WITH US.
MUSLIMS ARE NOT AT WAR WITH US.
SOME MEMBERS OF THEIR FAITH ARE!
NOT THE WHOLE RELIGION.
NOT 1.3BILLION PEOPLE.

STOP BEING SUCH A FOOL.

You refuse to acknowledge any posts when Muslims have spoke out against terrorism. When people show you this, you don't accept it.
You are a waste of bandwidth

The name calling will stop now.

I guess I am trying to look at this move in a different way than most of you. It may be a tactical blow to the terrorist. Yes I know that not all Islamic people are terrorist, but a lot of the terrorist that we are having problems with are Islamic. So what better way to hurt them than to get their own people against them. And I really feel that Blair thinks that taking away these rights until the terrorism stops will accomplish the goal. For some God awful reason the sympathy for this damn fight has turned to the other side. Blair is just turning up the heat. Don’t be surprised if other countries follow suite( U.S.) Who knows this plan may actually work. Only time will tell. And don't misunderstand me...I am not in complete agreement with this I am just trying to look at it from a different angle.

Originally posted by spliff4020
well, first of all....


yup....we nuked the hell out of japan. twice.... served em right. They threw a cheap shot at us.. we fought em, and beat em. But due to pride wouldnt surrender. So we dropped it on em. Then...just to show the rest of world that we had more than one...we did it again. And guess what.....

war over...



The "stans" which I refer to are the afghanistans, pakistans and the rest. and again, I have no use for them. The only thing they do is harbor terrorists and produce heroin. Pakistan seems to be moving in the right direction, but the rest need to be the same. Even if its a puppet regime, thats fine with me. These people have proven themselves incapable of leading a country. It needs to done. Its only time before a nuke is involved.
Not to steal from W. but, "better there, than here".


Agent Smith-- No offense, but your country has been dealing with that crap for 30 years now. It doesnt speak well to the whole "let the cops handle it" 30 years.....


Look, here is what I know. We lost 3000 people. 3000 innocent people whos only crime was going to work. I want justice. I dont care what we do to them in GITMO. The worse, the better as far as Im concerned. These people are enemies of MY COUNTRY. Any means to get them to talk if fine with me. I guess they should have thought twice.

These people want every single one of you who arent muslim, DEAD. Want is wrong with you people? Just the fact that we actually HAVE prisoners, speaks volumes as to why we are the greatest country. How many prisoners did Saddam keep alive?

Look, I feel for your people who died, and I know that GB has seen her share of # over the years. Your a ressiliant people, and a good ally. But admit it, things need to change.

In the year 2005 we should be spending money on space exploration and things like that. A friggin religous war is not neccesary. The quicker this is over, the better. And the quickest way is brutal.

And again, after all that reading you people still cant come up with a single idea except for us to pull out. HA! Got news for ya. We aint goin anywhere. We know what needs to be done.

So whine all ya want, but realize that. Ya, we nuked Japan. They had it coming. Now we run things. I know thats a tough pill for the rest of the world to swallow, but thats how it is. But we won. Maybe if brittan would have dealt with Ireland a little better your last 30 years woudlnt have been so bad.

These "radicals" are a dieing breed. Its only a matter of time before we rid our selves of them and can move on. Maybe youll feel differently when a jet comes slamming into Wembly. Maybe then youll feel anger. Maybe youll get off your bar stool and do something. Probably not. Doesnt matter. America will just come along and save your asses..... again.

After the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor the United States systematicaly
rounded up all Japanese/Americans and started putting them in concentration camps for reasons of National Security. Why? Because of wide spread panic that there would be spies or saboteurs among them.
Everytime a radical Islamic suicide bomber blows themselves up, they are creating the same kind on mentality among the the non-muslem world population. It is a direct result of the type of tactics the terrorists use. It is also a direct result of the undeniable fact that these people are Muslem. So no one especially Muslems should be surprised that the UK and Mr. Blair are cracking down on muslems. Whether you agree with their methods or not. Another undeniable fact is that moderate Muslems are just as responsible for this as their radical brethren. This radical thinking has been tolerated in Mosque and Madras for decades and moderates choose to do knowing about it. Non muslems are fed up. Everytime another terrorist attack occurs, this swell of anger grows bigger. Governments such as the USA and UK are being pushed into a corner. If they sit by passively and only react, then innocents die and the general populace calls for action. If they take the offensive and use agressive means then others cry foul and claim their civil rights are being violated or start hollering about racial profiling. I am sorry and I aplogize to any muslems that might be affended but when Radical Islamic Terrorist with British citizenship commit suicide bombings that kill 56 people and injure hundreds of others, you don't suspect or arrest whites of european dissent. You don't stalk out Christian Churches or search Irish neighborhoods. You don't suspect or band non-muslem poltical parties. The UK has no choice, neither does the States. The stakes are too high. They did not set the rules of this war, especially when they are facing an enemy who has claimed that their goal is to out do 9/11 and 7/7. Honestly all muslems can cry foul but what did you really think was going to happen? There is a cancer in Islam that is eating away at your Islamic soul and the Muslems of the world had better unite to ousts it. God forbid that Osama and his minions succeed in giving America or Britain a more devasting blow with massive death. I am afraid that the banding of a few Muslem political parties will seem very trivial compared to the response.

[edit on 8-8-2005 by Yorga]

Yorga, by doing this and the things you point out you are doing what the terrorists want.

Causing a divide between Muslim and Non-Muslim.
By helping them, you(Government) might as well be one because you only push more Muslims into their ranks.

Sorry, but I disagree, I am not causing a divide between Muslem and no-Muslem. That has already been done. The terrorist have stated from their own mouths and actions that this is a Holy War. Even their title 'The Crusader Bush' is directly related to religion. Sorry but you are wrong on this account. The USA has been under attack from Radical Islam since 1979 and the fall of the US Embassy in Iran. Muslems are doing the bombings that cannot be denied. My reaction and opinion is a direct result of their
rhetoric and actions. Like it or not, moderate Muslems could have done more to quell this cancer before it got so out of hand. For that I hold Islam responsible. If the terrorist were Christian, I would hold moderate Christians just as responsible. Same goes for Budda, Hindu or any other organized religion order that allows such radical thinking to go unchecked
under its own nose. Nope sorry I'm not the one yelling 'Allah is Great'
as I blow up innocent men, women and children. I am not the one screaming,' Jihad!' and calling the USA and the UK 'Crusaders!' because we go on the offensive after 26 years of Radical Islamic terror. If Muslems don't like the backlash they are seeing in UK and USA then they need to be more proactive in combating the situation. There is an old saying that goes,
'If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem!' Islam has to stand up and take it on the cheek for this one. Passing the buck doesn't cut it.

What if the solution that we have put forward is only helping to cause the problem? Which is the fact.

They want to cause a split between Non-Muslim and Muslim. Your views are helping to cause this split.

Moderate Muslims have been trying for years to do something, but they get no Government or Media attention. Everytime the BMA put a plan forward which would help us - nothing can come from it because the Media black it out.

They have tried, they are trying and the ignorance of people is only helping to split the Nations up.

The BMA were even kind enough to point out what would happen if Iraq was invaded. British MPs said it would never happen (become a terror safe heaven) and they were wrong the BMA was right.

Maybe it's about time the Governments and Media listen to the Moderate Muslims? Listen to the people who have been trying for years to solve the problem instead of blocking them out and causing more terrorism. Invading nations and dropping bombs, isn't the answer. If you can't see terrorism has been going up since Iraq you are blind. If people do not understand the routes of terrorism are the poverty, ignorance and hypocrisy on a large part by groups like the U.N. and larger more powerful Nations you are just a part of the problem and until then terrorism will exist.

Originally posted by Yorga
The terrorist have stated from their own mouths and actions that this is a Holy War.

But they do not speak for all Muslims.
If I get a group of Native Americans, Russians, Christians, etc, together and declare a War or Holy War on America does that mean all of that group agree with me or any other nation in fact?

Of course not...so why judge Muslims on it?
There were Communists and Jews involved in Terrorism on Germany prior to Hitler being in office. Does it mean he was justified in his actions?
Of course not.

When the I.R.A. bombed Birmingham did that mean all Catholics (or even Christians) had declared war on us?
Or when Irgun/Levi bombed the U.K? Does that mean we have the right to pre-judge all Jewish people on their actions?

Of course not.

So just because a small minority of the Islamic Religion declared a Holy War on us does not mean every single muslim has.