Kabbalah = Sorcery

Originally posted by Legalizer
Quoting the bible as any kind of evidence for anything is just a pure and shining sign of manic insanity. Christians seem to live and feed off of freaking out about other people's beliefs.
Intolerance bigotry simply exposes the small mind.

Study of any "mysticism" is never following of any set rules word for word, but simple
step stones for people who are on a path of self discover and self initiation, the majority
of which only need a simple guide and not dogmatic subservience to a code or master.

Before you dog someone elses choice in philosophical pursuits, try looking in the mirror
at the slime and filth that oozes from your own.

I've just read your post, saw your lovely flame-baiting zealousness against Chritianity, and realized the hysterical humour in it.

You made this manically insane Christian almost laugh aloud.

Most today are very preoccupied to attack Christians to stop and realize ooze from oil.

Back on topic for a moment - what Rant said.

[edit on 7-8-2005 by Thomas Crowne]

"Checkers" - Ignorant Posts like yours make me LAUGH! Thanks for the Comic Relief! You are obviously a *LITERAL* Bible Interpreter/Thumper!

So what are you saying that "Science" is "EVIL"? Oh Yeah & "Medicine" came from "SATAN" - I almost Forgot!

Aren't we allowed to be Mystics in your world? Please don't call us Evil for Expanding our Consciousness! Someone's got to do it after all!

P.S. Oh Yeah - FYI - JESUS was in-fact a Practicing Qabalistic Jew!
Was CHRIST Evil? I know that many called Him a "Sorcerer" (although after everything he did he always Glorified GOD)... but that is a Different Story!


[edit on 7-8-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 7-8-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

a very good i book i recommend all to read is the tree of life by isreal regardie, actually any of regardies work is very well done. he was around the same time as crowley i believe

No, Seraphim, Christ was not. He was God in the flesh; He had no reason to speculate on the nature of divinity, creation or anything else. What Christ did was not magic, what He did was perform miracles, which do not violate laws of nature or physics, but is uathority over them.

To attempt to say otherwise, to claim He was anything but what He was is to deny His Divinity.

Originally posted by Annacryst
a very good i book i recommend all to read is the tree of life by isreal regardie, actually any of regardies work is very well done. he was around the same time as crowley i believe

Well The Tree of Life is a good book, but it's not really about Kabbalah it's about Ceremonial Magic. And the Qabalah it has a chapter on is not the same as traditional Jewish Kabbalah. That's one of the reasons Ceremonial Magicans normally spell it differently. (But technically they are both correct English spellings along with Cabala and many others)

BTW Regardie more than lived at the same time as Crowley, He was Crowley's secretary for a few years.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
To attempt to say otherwise, to claim He was anything but what He was is to deny His Divinity.

And? maybe that's the whole point (Trying not to put words in Seraphim_Serpente's mouth)

[edit on 8/7/2005 by Cug]

Of course, I am aware of that. Again, the irony, though, of people meddling in other folks' faiths, beliefs or religions. Claiming someone's Savior is a parlor magician.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Of course, I am aware of that. Again, the irony, though, of people meddling in other folks' faiths, beliefs or religions. Claiming someone's Savior is a parlor magician.

Err... Ditto,

Claiming someones faith is nothing but parlor tricks.

Game set match. I concede to the victor!

Good job.

if the subject of kaballah interest some people here, i would recommend reading the books written by the initiate franz bardon.

Originally posted by Chasrac64
I got a book " The key Of Solomon The King" ( Mathars) and says that Solomon practiced Black Magic

he used all kind of magic. so can anyone explain this? or did I just waste my money on something that is not well re-searched. They say that this MSS is in British Museum.
I can see how one can be confused over all this. I always thought Kabbalah was a Good teaching and that this is suppose to be a true source of Knowledge. Solomon learned this, but I was thrown off by this book.

1 King ll:4:
"4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father. 5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites. 6 And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father. 7 Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon. 8 And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods. 9 And the LORD was angry with Solomon, because his heart was turned from the LORD God of Israel, which had appeared unto him twice, 10 And had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods: but he kept not that which the LORD commanded. 11 Wherefore the LORD said unto Solomon, Forasmuch as this is done of thee, and thou hast not kept my covenant and my statutes, which I have commanded thee, I will surely rend the kingdom from thee, and will give it to thy servant."

Originally posted by Legalizer
Quoting the bible as any kind of evidence for anything is just a pure and shining sign of manic insanity. Christians seem to live and feed off of freaking out about other people's beliefs.
Intolerance bigotry simply exposes the small mind.

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
"Checkers" - Ignorant Posts like yours make me LAUGH!

Thanks for the Comic Relief!

You are obviously a *LITERAL* Bible Interpreter/Thumper!

Romans 1:
"16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel: it is the power of God for salvation to every one who has faith, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed through faith for faith; as it is written, "He who through faith is righteous shall live." 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of men who by their wickedness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse; 21 for although they knew God they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking and their senseless minds were darkened."

Furthermore, since most of you claim that the websites I cited don't authenticate Cabalism as the source for magic, witchcraft, sorcery - whatever word you prefer - well then you have all certainly gone to great extents in this post to confirm that magic is derived from Cabalism - thank you for making my case for me.

Religion and spirituality are subjective so when statements are made about one's belief or another, people obviously take it personally. My intent is not to attack individuals but to challenge the premises of Cabalism. The premises that Cabalism are founded on contradict each other and, therefore, are literally and philosophically absurd. One premise completely annihilates the other leaving no foundation at all. When there is no foundation then nothing can stand upon it. The Lord Jesus Christ states over and over again in the Bible not to delve into mysteries. Cabalism is founded on deciphering mysteries.

You cannot overcome the ego by feeding it with control.

The only way to overcome the ego is to surrender control to the Lord Jesus Christ.

Magic, sorcery, etc. also consists of surrendering control but not to God. Humans are not supernatural and do not possess supernatural powers. The delusion that magic empowers humans with supernatural powers and control is nothing but more smoke and mirrors. If you look beyond the smoke then you will find something other than God that is performing your magic. If you think God is instructing you to perform magic, sorcery, etc., then you've encountered something other than God i.e. a deceiving spirit. God is omnipotent and doesn't need your magic for His will to be done. If the spirit enticing you to practice magic, etc. deceives you into thinking that it is God, and that it needs you to do magic in order for its will to be done - well then that spirit isn't omnipotent. If the spirit isn't omnipotent, then it is not God.

We exist to further God's glory. You can either choose to believe in a delusion or you can choose to believe in the truth. Whatever you believe or don't believe, God is going to use you to further His glory. God will even use your delusions to further His glory.

I contend that Cabalism is a delusion because it is founded on contradictions/deceptions.

Isaiah 66:3:
"3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. 4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not. 5 Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed."

2 Thessalonians 2:7"
"7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by his appearing and his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one by the activity of Satan will be with all power and with pretended signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception for those who are to perish, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false, 12 so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth."


[edit on 7-8-2005 by checkers]

As long as things no longer have to make any sense in this pissing contest.


"I can say the Lord's prayer in 10 seconds."
~ Evel Knievel

I always held Solomon High! My Favorite that I always remember was Proverbs 3 verses 15-19
David had Bathsheba`s husband killed,( for gods sake) he was forgivin.
Well I have started reading this and so far, I have not a clue about whats going on. Theres like spells in it. I for 1, am not into this. , but be more carefull about what I chose for a good read. There are a few things, like they talk about spirits and how to have them help you out in times of need, This is not that bad but I`m funny when it comes to things like this. I for one believe in Spirit guides I guess, and Angels. but when it comes to contacting them, I have not a clue. Thats where it goes into spells and stuff like that. but I`m only half way through it. I hope it gets better. They need a "Dummy guide" to some these books.LOL
Then they have all these symbols
They look kinda old, but there meaning, I dont know if its good or bad. oh well

Originally posted by Chasrac64

Well I have started reading this and so far, I have not a clue about whats going on. Theres like spells in it.

I'm not sure which of the Solomonic grimoires you have I'm assuming you have the Clavicula Salomonis. but in anycase Your really not going to get anything out of them unless you have a solid background in the Occult, Magick, Qabalah, etc, etc...

It's sorta like trying to understand a calculus textbook without knowing how to add or subtract.

[edit on 8/7/2005 by Cug]

Thank you This is what I feel my problem is. I need to study more in these areas to understand this.
But it was the Black magic part that threw me off . I kinda thought to myself, " well this can not be a good thing" Also there is like Animal sacrifice things in here That The Author strongly advise not to do because anything that you have to kill for a sacrifice can not be a good thing, I mean If a Animal, human, anything has to suffer for a God, I strongly disagree then with this kind of God. I feel the true God does not want Man killing. This God would not require a Blood sacrifice. ( no way) He told Moses " Thou Shall not Kill" also notice what Isaiah is told in Ch. 66 verse 3
" He that Killeth an Ox is if he slew a Man" " He that Sacrifice a LAMB, as if he cut off a dogs neck" ...." Yea, They have chosen their OWN ways and their soul delighteth in their abominations"
truely this God did not want Blood Sacrifice.

Originally posted by Chasrac64
But it was the Black magic part that threw me off . I kinda thought to myself, " well this can not be a good thing"

Well contrary to popular opinion, Black in this case is just a word. There must be dozens of definitions of "Black Magick" some say Magick is only black if you have evil intentions, and white if you have good intentions. Others say White Magick is used for enlightenment, and everything else is called Black. But in the end Magick is neutral, it's just a thing. For example electricity is good when you power your computer with it, but it's bad when a lighting bolt kills someone.

Also there is like Animal sacrifice things in here That The Author strongly advise not to do because anything that you have to kill for a sacrifice can not be a good thing, I mean If a Animal, human, anything has to suffer for a God, I strongly disagree then with this kind of God.

This is a case of not knowing your basic math.

Some of the things you should know. This type of book is not as old as they claim, most are from the Medieval age and later. They did this because basically it was OK to research or translate profane texts, but if you wrote one, you would be punished by the church. Remember what happened to Galileo?

Second these old books also have what is called Blinds in them. They are normally false or missleading or just symbolic things that if you were "in the know" you would be able to figure out what it really means. It was a way to keep someone from trying something before they were ready. It could also be used as another way to keep from being called a heretic.

You are joking about this right??

"P.S. Oh Yeah - FYI - JESUS was in-fact a Practicing Qabalistic Jew!
Was CHRIST Evil? I know that many called Him a "Sorcerer" (although after everything he did he always Glorified GOD)... but that is a Different Story!"

One thing of which it is obvious by the text in the Word is that Jesus the Christ for remission of sins was not practicing the Hebrew religion in the manner in which the Hebrews themselves had prostituted it. Whored it out. This is plainly obvious. For if what you say was true...the Hebrews would not have plotted and schemed so to remove him and discredit him publically and privately. You dont do this to a skilled mystic, an initiate, you do this to the profane.
It is obvious from the begining chapters of the Word that the Children of Israel were often disobedient and at times even openly courted the religion and practices of the nations surrounding them. A practice God told them not to do. Not to do as did the nations surrounding them did...Abomination. The workings of the Kaballah is just such a abomination...as is the Talmud. Karaite hebrews know this...

Jesus never taught from the Talmud ..or Kaballah..if he had they would not have plotted so to discredit and kill him. Same is said for the Apostle Paul. For Paul was a learned man..and learned in the ways of the Hebrews. He knew how and why the Hebrews had deviated from and followed the ways of the nations surrounding them. Same pattern applies..If Paul were following standard Hebrew deviations from the Lords Word..they would not have plotted to kill him as they did Jesus the Christ for Remission of sins.

In every case the technique is to get followers off of the Word of God an on to something else..anything but the Word of God...any counterfit or counterfit God.

It is intresting the look in the eyes of these people when you are in the Lords Spirit and are able by logic and reason to clearly get these people to admit that it is another god and another christ they are following.
The most intresting phenomonon is to watch their reaction when you ask them the name of their god ..by name...thier counterfit god.
When they know that you know...the look in thier eyes is very intresting as is their response.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Bible thumper..,fundamentalist , fanatic..et al. These are words used to label someone and take advantage of peoples ignorance and fears. This is standard world technique to keep unknowlegable people off guard and from ever thinking a thing through.
This is the standard technique of people who religiously follow the world system after the god of this world. Beware of this. Do not be ignorant.
They have a different light and a different god. Just as did many of the Hebrews in ancient times particularly the Hebrew Leadership.
By the way...this is also the standard technique of politics which is part and parcel of this other religion. Politics most certainly has zealous and devout religious adherants. Think it through and watch them label people in this manner. It is a fingerprint..of their god...beware.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Quote: "Seraphim Serpente

You are joking about this right??

"P.S. Oh Yeah - FYI - JESUS was in-fact a Practicing Qabalistic Jew!
Was CHRIST Evil? I know that many called Him a "Sorcerer" (although after everything he did he always Glorified GOD)... but that is a Different Story!"


Well it is the TRUTH of the Matter! Why don't you do more re-search on it! Look at it from a more HISTORICAL perspective & then get back to me! Sorry if my point of view is in conflict with your Perspective or Interpretive Religion! We are both entitled to our views!


Quote: "One thing of which it is obvious by the text in the Word is that Jesus the Christ for remission of sins was not practicing the Hebrew religion in the manner in which the Hebrews themselves had prostituted it. Whored it out. This is plainly obvious."


Please don't confuse the LANGUAGE of Hebrew (or any other Semitic Language) - with what certain "Jews" of that time period might have Practiced. Then - just as now - there were many different ways & perspectives on how you could view & Practice the Religion of Judaism. What made Christ stand out is the *COMPASSION* that he showed during his Ministry! He truly tried to bring People together - Black & White, Jew & Gentile, Man & Woman, Rich & Poor! But make no mistake about it - JESUS was in fact a JEW! However - to be fair - he did bring the Practice of Judaism up to a New - more Civilized level! It is understandable to see why many Pagans & Jews saw this new way as Superior & eventually switched to "Christianity".

Kind of how the likes of people such as yourself – how did that go again: “Practicing the Hebrew Religion in the manner in which the Hebrews themselves had prostituted it. Whored it out. This is Plainly Obvious." – Whore out the Religion of Judaism & then have the Tenacity to call it “Proper Christianity”! Here is a Hint/Clue – you are not fooling anyone yourself there Buddy! I doubt that you can even read Hebrew!


Quote: "For if what you say was true...the Hebrews would not have plotted and schemed so to remove him and discredit him publicly and privately."

Oh get over yourself! It was the ROMANS that CRUCIFIED Jesus BTW! The Corrupted Rabbi's of which you speak certainly did also Corrupt the Religion of Judaism as well (I am sure Jesus Resented that) - they THREW him to the Romans out of (Political & Theological) Rivalry more than anything else!

Quote: "The workings of the Kaballah is just such an Abomination...as is the Talmud... Jesus never taught from the Talmud..."

Who is talking about the "Talmud"?
Qabalah is a form of Mysticism! It is a Mystical Interpretation of the Law/Scripture as opposed to the
*Strict Literal Interpretation* that those such as yourself apply to the Scriptures! The Qabalistic Art is usually applied to Books such as the *TORAH* & the Greek New Testament - among others!

I tell you what – lets make a Deal - you can Interpret the Scriptures in any way that you Wish & I will Interpret them in the way that I Wish! I believe that in America this is we call - FREEDOM & LIBERTY!


Have a Nice Day!

[edit on 9-8-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

sorry olde man..but you use the typical worldly tactic. You also clearly show me the name of your god.

One thing is plainly clear...to anyone who can read...in any language. The Hebrews were not to practice in "any" manner or language or dealings with their God..they were to practice in only one manner.
Like the fingerprint of the world and those who would seduce the Hebrews...you must include a wide manner and open way of interpretation to get your point of view in . This is totally contradictory to the instructions given to the Hebrews. A very slick substitution.
Give me the name of your counterfitter Seraphim Serpente? What you post is not the Hebrew Instruction ...it is however the method of this world..after the god of this world.

You posted this:

"Oh get over yourself! It was the ROMANS that CRUCIFIED Jesus BTW! The Corrupted Rabbi's of which you speak certainly did also Corrupt the Religion of Judaism as well (I am sure Jesus Resented that) - they THREW him to the Romans out of (Political & Theological) Rivalry more than anything else!"

This is not even intelligent history. It is clear that the Romans crucified Him for political purposes on the instistance of the Hebrew leadership. The Roman Pontius Pilate did not want to crucify Him. This too is clear. It is known historically that for a certain period...death sentances were removed by the Romans from the Hebrews. This very period where He came before Pilate and the Hebrew leadership. Before and after this period they could pass death sentances. The statement is recorded..."Give us Barabus" This is the insistance of the Hebrews. It was the Hebrews ..not the Romans. Nice substitution..again.

The way of the Hebrews is narrow..not broad...same with the Christians.
Both groups have extensively deviated from their instructions for the way of the world.

I do not travel to the East in search of light..up seven steps..but I know what it is ..in its multitude of forms. I also know the fruit it produces and its fingerprint. I can spot it often in the media , education, politics et al.

Thanks,
Orangetom

OK – let me break it down further for you all! I don’t know what the heck you are thinking about “orangetom1999” - but “Qabalah” is nothing Sinister or “Evil”! Qabalah is all about De-Ciphering & Correspondences!


Here is an Example:

NUM - Latin/English - Greek - Hebrew

1 - A - Alpha - Aleph
2 - B - Beta - Beth
3 - C - gamma - gimmel
4 - D - Delta - Daleth
5 - E - Epsilon - heh


The Ancients did not use Numbers as we do today – instead they used LETTERS of their “ALPHA-BETH” to represent Numerical Values (you know like Roman Numerals = IVX)! There is another word for doing these kinds of Calculations – I believe that it is called “Gematria”.

So as you can see the “Qabalistic Arts” are actually about finding a
*DEEPER MEANING*, a *HIDDEN TRUTH* & a more *THOROUGH UNDERSTANDING* of the Holy Scriptures! Many of the Translators of the Holy Scriptures did in-fact employ Qabalah/Gematria! Some of these writings are rather Cryptic (like the Book of Revelations for instance) it makes no sense if you read it Normally – but once you apply the Qabalah/Gematria to it – it kind of unlocks a Code!

Some people (including myself @ one point) questioned whether it was a Good Idea for the King James Translators/Publishers of the Bible to Sandwich the “Old Testament” in with the “New Testament” into one book. But lo & behold if you take the Original Hebrew Torah & the Original Greek Gospels (as well as Revelations) you will in-fact find Qabalistic Correspondences between them!


Quote: “The way of the Hebrews is Narrow… not Broad... same with the Christians”.

Speak for yourself you Closed Minded Know Nothing Buffoon!


[edit on 10-8-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 10-8-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 10-8-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]