Russian Researchers Claim to Have Solved Mystery of Crop Circles

Originally posted by golemina
>'How the hell are they going to tell us that lightening or a bunch of kids in the middle of the night with a rope and a board form something as complex as this'

You've got that right, ZengZicong.

>'There is NO SUCH THING as a crop circle that is too complex for a human to create'

THIS is humorous! When I hear statements of this type or someone 'explaining/debunking' crop circles by citing circlemakers.org, the word... POSEUR somehow seems to come to mind.

Maybe these circle makers/supporters of these ridiculous claims should actually go out and PROVE it.

Like THAT is going to happen!

Calm down!

And...you're damn right I'm not gonna go into a field and start bending crops apart from the fact it's pointless and would probably only fuel your belief that aliens came down and made it, it would also probably be considered trespassing.

Humans can make these things. I saw a show in which people went out and built an amazing pattern during the night.

I have watched people make these.

Accept the obvious truth that aliens do not make crop circles.

cant electrical energy from ufo landing coarse them??

Originally posted by shorty

Humans can make these things. I saw a show in which people went out and built an amazing pattern during the night.

I have watched people make these.

Accept the obvious truth that aliens do not make crop circles.

So, I bet if people could make flying saucers they would. just because you've seen people do this doesn't IN ANY WAY prove that every single crop circle has been made the same way. To say this my friend, would be ignorant.

I swear there should be an 'Approve Ignorance' forum on this site, would fill up pretty fast...

people, your belief dont make everyone elses wrong, its just the circumstances of experience, or not even that...sometimes just a feeling..

Im not saying this guys wrong, Im saying his comment was ignorant. Thats a problem about forums, you get the smart arses who brush off someone elses belief because of something they've apparantly seen, or just because they're convinced every else is mad.

Conclusion; all crop circles are made by peeps, or some are and some arent....We cant say for sure, because we havent been there for the process of EVERY crop circle being made.

Im in a rant mood if you cant tell!

Originally posted by woodsyboy
So, I bet if people could make flying saucers they would.

Actually, the military has developed and flown "flying saucers" of their own.

just because you've seen people do this doesn't IN ANY WAY prove that every single crop circle has been made the same way. To say this my friend, would be ignorant.

No, but it proves that there is no such thing as a crop circle that is too hard for a human to make. That was the argument being made. Man, sometimes I think that the word "ignorrant" has a completely different meaning to other people.

I swear there should be an 'Approve Ignorance' forum on this site, would fill up pretty fast...

No argument there

people, your belief dont make everyone elses wrong, its just the circumstances of experience, or not even that...sometimes just a feeling..

Beleif has nothing to do with it. People like Shorty and myself attempt to actually use scientific data rather than "feelings" when coming up with an explaination for something as controversial as crop circles.

Im not saying this guys wrong, Im saying his comment was ignorant. Thats a problem about forums, you get the smart arses who brush off someone elses belief because of something they've apparantly seen, or just because they're convinced every else is mad..

And yet, aside from saying that these complex crop circles just too darn hard for humans to make, no one is coming up with a decent explaination as to how these complex circles are being made (other than by human hands, which have already been demonstrated countless times). Or better yet, if they are alien made, I have seen no logical explaination as to why are they making them. AllI hear is that they are advanced forms of communication. I'm sorry, but that just makes me laugh! If you wanna communicate something to me, pick up the phone.

Conclusion; all crop circles are made by peeps, or some are and some arent....We cant say for sure, because we havent been there for the process of EVERY crop circle being made.

This is about the only logical statement I've seen from the peanut gallery as of yet. But it still contains flaws. You're right, we haven't seen every circle get made, but we have seen time and time again man made demonstration of insanely grand and complex designs get made, but NOT ONCE EVER have we documented creation of a non man made circle, whether it be natural phenomenom or of alien origin.

I havnt looked into this theory, but I stand by my theory that sound can form such occurances.

I made a thread on it, but im too lazy to link you to it.

Originally posted by woodsyboy
So, I bet if people could make flying saucers they would.

Um...Hate to break it to you...but yeah...they would...and they have...

just because you've seen people do this doesn't IN ANY WAY prove that every single crop circle has been made the same way.

Oh...right...so witnesses in murder investigations should be ignored because seeing it happening doesn't actually prove anything.

Besidse, had you read my post I actually said that not all crop circles are made in the(nice new bold feature) same way. I said some are most probably natrual occurances.

To say this my friend, would be ignorant.

But to say that extra-terrestrial life come all the way to our planet to crush down some crops wouldn't?

I swear there should be an 'Approve Ignorance' forum on this site, would fill up pretty fast...

Indeed it would, but to imply I am ignorant is very inaccurate. Maybe ignorant on some subjects, football, Britney spears, Russian politics...But not all.

people, your belief dont make everyone elses wrong, its just the circumstances of experience, or not even that...sometimes just a feeling..

I never said they did.

I do, however, need more than just "feeling". To believe just on "feelings" is ignorant, more than that, to a certain extent, it's lazy.

Im not saying this guys wrong, Im saying his comment was ignorant. Thats a problem about forums, you get the smart arses who brush off someone elses belief because of something they've apparantly seen, or just because they're convinced every else is mad.

If you're not saying i'm wrong...what's the problem?

I never brushed your belief off. No, I have done a lot of work and read a lot to come to the conclusion I have. I could have just decided to belief aliens make them, that would have been much much easier.

Maybe you should post a bit more and find your feet before picking out the problems with the forum.

And...you know... next time you're around it may be nice of you to actually talk about the topic rather than accuse me of being ignorant, make your point, which has been lost throughout all of what you have said.

And thanks mpeake



[edit on 4-8-2005 by shorty]

Good to see someone else is at least on the same page as I am shorty Not that that's a good thing

Yes I have seen that one too. Colllin Andrews stated back then appx /97, the video sent to him was from a man possessing sophisticated video enhancement equipment and his feelings were it's bogus. Though, I have seen other UFOs shot in a crop circle after it was formed and while people were in it, that looked identical to the video we are refering to.

Dallas

Let me expound on my impression a bit further. When I stated "phasing" I am implying a hyper-dimesnion. We wouldn't see them unless we were meant to see them.
As to the why, perhaps they are guiding us to a new realm? Perhaps (as Doug Ruby claims in "The Gift") they are slowly leading us to a new discovery that we as a civilization haven't even considered the possibility of.
I keep an open mind on everything. why they don't just land and introduce themselves? Maybe they tried to interact with man before and got shot down for their technology (Roswell??) Or maybe they just want to see funny little man scratching the webs out of his under-developed brain.
Push come to shove, I saw what we can't do. I believe without a doubt that there is something "out there" and once I took that leap of Faith, I opened my mind to other possibilities. Things that go contrary to the known in science and technology.
An example, we had been taught that it is impossible to enter a black hole, and yet, what if you were going in faster than gravity were pulling you?

Yeah, FTL. spinning/phasing ... take that leap of Faith and open your mind to the possibilities of what is totally out there and don't blind yourself with dogma that only holds you back. You'd be amazed at how much we don't know and have yet to discover. ... and we never stop learning.

There are two types of crop circles. The ones that are man-made and a few that are unexplainable. At a first glance there is no way to tell them apart. It's under closer inspection that the differences are notable;

In the man made circles, stalks of the plants are pinched when it is folded over by the weight of the person and his/her plank.

In all the unexplained circles, the stalk is bent over but at the joint of the bend there is no pinch. Instead the joint is blown out like a small balloon. The scientists explain that this is caused by intense heat. Also the scientists have discovered that the areas have high amounts of electro-magnet energy. So the lightening theory sounds like it could fit but I can't see a flash of lightening making intricate patterns. Unless Zeus is bored and doodling in the fields for entertainment, the lightening theory is far fetched.

In the show I watched on the subject (don't recall the name of the program, think it was on the Discovery channel). They interviewed some people, from Austrailia, that were involved in making man-made crop circles professionally. They claimed they have been all over the world, hired by farmers to try and draw attention to their nick of the woods (or should I say fields). Somehow this story smells fishy, how many rich crop farmers do you know? Most crop farmers have all their money tied up in their crops and maintaining their equipment. To fly in these guys just to make a circle and damage their precious crop would be very costly. Seems a high price to pay just to have gawkers trampling all over their field to see it.

A year or two ago on the Space Channel (in Canada) there was another show about crop circles. It showed a bright spherical object in a field, somewhere in England. The object was dancing in and out of sight by hiding in the stalks and popping back out just over the field. It went back into hiding in the stalks and then in a matter of seconds a crop circle formed then another beside it. The orb reemerged when it was done and was immeadiately chased off by a helicopter. The chase went across a highway and into another field, where the helicopter lost it. The reason that they had cameras there to film it was that this field had a history of circles and they would appear every year. The UFOlogists set up a manned camera on a hill overlooking the area and had been filming for months before they caught it on tape. But I haven't seen the clip since, if it got debunked it would still be on the internet. If anyone has seen this clip and knows where to find it could you post a link please Same with the first story about the interview with cropwalkers.

I've seen some really complex ones on TV. If people are doing those, when how come there are never mistakes? Like some part of it kinda f'd up. They're always flawless.

Why do people keep saying "Why would aliens travel all this way to flatten some grass?" etc.

Why the hell would humans go all the way to the moon to leave a few foot prints in the dust?

The thing is, we aren't the aliens so don't asume they think the way we do.

Now crop circles...... Ummmmm.......
Well, I know most are man made. The old plank & rope.
But some are much more interesting. Properties such as high radiation levels........

Originally posted by GreatAncientWhiteDragon
There are two types of crop circles. The ones that are man-made and a few that are unexplainable. At a first glance there is no way to tell them apart. It's under closer inspection that the differences are notable;

In the man made circles, stalks of the plants are pinched when it is folded over by the weight of the person and his/her plank.

In all the unexplained circles, the stalk is bent over but at the joint of the bend there is no pinch. Instead the joint is blown out like a small balloon.

excellent points,
one notable difference, was pointed out by the Russian Researchers,
the high voltage electrical discharges caused the grasses to
bend uniformly & form a circle, in a clock-wise direction
compare all catalogued cropcircles for this telltale evidence...
i.e. are the grasses or stalks bent in a clockwise direction?

any reversal in direction would suggest that its manmade

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

IMO, it shouldnt matter that the cropcircles became stressed from
being stomped down with a board...Or
if the cropcircle came under stress from intense microwave/electrical discharge- - or even 'dry' or 'heat' lightning.

As the pinches (from manmade) or the aneurisms(from unexplained)...
are just the plants reaction to the hurtful stress done to it.
Just like your flesh getting a 'noogey' (a temporary hard lump, swelling) when you get a punch or a knuckle to a soft spot on your body.

those welts or bumps or pinches on the crops' stalks are just the plant
trying to protect itself and heal itself...they are a result of...not the cause of
cropcircles.

"In the present paper. evidence is presented which indicates that structural and cellular alterations take place in plants exposed within the confines of the 'circle' type formations. differences which were determined to be statistically significant when compared with control plants taken outside the formations. These transformations were manifested at the macroscopic level as abnormal nodal swelling. gross malformations during embryogenesis, and charred epidermal tissue. Significant changes in seed germination and development were found. and at the microscopic level differences were observed in cell wall pit structures. Affected plants also have characteristics suggesting the involvement of transient high temperatures." [this is taken from: etcontact.net...the crop circle page(s)]

There is so much evidence that some crop circles are not made by man! Nature? Maybe. Aliens? Maybe.

[edit on 8/4/05 by FibroKat]

[edit on 8/4/05 by FibroKat]

Originally posted by GreatAncientWhiteDragon
There are two types of crop circles. The ones that are man-made and a few that are unexplainable. At a first glance there is no way to tell them apart. It's under closer inspection that the differences are notable;

In the man made circles, stalks of the plants are pinched when it is folded over by the weight of the person and his/her plank.

In all the unexplained circles, the stalk is bent over but at the joint of the bend there is no pinch. Instead the joint is blown out like a small balloon. The scientists explain that this is caused by intense heat. Also the scientists have discovered that the areas have high amounts of electro-magnet energy. So the lightening theory sounds like it could fit but I can't see a flash of lightening making intricate patterns. Unless Zeus is bored and doodling in the fields for entertainment, the lightening theory is far fetched.

In the show I watched on the subject (don't recall the name of the program, think it was on the Discovery channel). They interviewed some people, from Austrailia, that were involved in making man-made crop circles professionally. They claimed they have been all over the world, hired by farmers to try and draw attention to their nick of the woods (or should I say fields). Somehow this story smells fishy, how many rich crop farmers do you know? Most crop farmers have all their money tied up in their crops and maintaining their equipment. To fly in these guys just to make a circle and damage their precious crop would be very costly. Seems a high price to pay just to have gawkers trampling all over their field to see it.

A year or two ago on the Space Channel (in Canada) there was another show about crop circles. It showed a bright spherical object in a field, somewhere in England. The object was dancing in and out of sight by hiding in the stalks and popping back out just over the field. It went back into hiding in the stalks and then in a matter of seconds a crop circle formed then another beside it. The orb reemerged when it was done and was immeadiately chased off by a helicopter. The chase went across a highway and into another field, where the helicopter lost it. The reason that they had cameras there to film it was that this field had a history of circles and they would appear every year. The UFOlogists set up a manned camera on a hill overlooking the area and had been filming for months before they caught it on tape. But I haven't seen the clip since, if it got debunked it would still be on the internet. If anyone has seen this clip and knows where to find it could you post a link please

Same with the first story about the interview with cropwalkers.

I was watching this show called 'Unexplained Mysteries' and they showed this clip of how this military helicopter came onto a field and followed an orb around too...but it wasn't across any highway...must've been another case. They also mentioned (briefly) how some crop circle makers confessed that they had been payed by the government to take responsibility for some of the circles ...makes you wonder.

I was watching this show called 'Unexplained Mysteries' and they showed this clip of how this military helicopter came onto a field and followed an orb around too...but it wasn't across any highway...must've been another case.

Actually I think that may be the one, the one that crossed the road was from a different clip of an orb being chased by a helicopter. It did show a circle being made though, right?

As to the hoaxers admitting to governments paying them to say that they made the circles, it wouldn't surprise me. I also think the government pays them to actually make some circles to throw off the Circle Watchers.

Don't let the government fool you. They do all sorts of things to throw you off from letting you know the truth. You should know the government by now. They will stop at all costs to prevent us from knowing the truth. They know life exists out there but won't admit it. Look at Roswell. It was a flying saucer, but the government denied it saying it was a weather balloon. Weather balloon? I don't think so. I am smarter than that.

MPEAKE how do you explain the stonehedge circles, that appeared during the day in the time frame of less than 45 minutes?




there must have been a whole lotta of stompin' goin' on

Another thing that doesnt go well with the "human made" explanation is the way of bending the crops and cooking them from the inside, and all the beautifull geometry and ratios, that can be found in these circles. Sacred geometry all the way....i dont doubt punk kids make some of them, but lets face it, people are just not clever or resourcefull enough to make the fancy ones (in very small time as is often reported). Ya, they want to take credit for all of them, but this does not mean they actually made them.
Sure a big, well prepared team can make anything, but not in minutes. For that, they would need some sort of satelite microwave device or something even funkier, which im pretty sure they dont have.

To say that they are too complex for humans is crazy. Is an F22 raptor, nuclear bomb or reactor, modern medicine, the circuitry in your CPU and the internet which allows you to read these very words too complex for humans??

Just look around at the art and engineering and massively complex things in the world, laying a design out in crops might not be easy, but its by far not the most difficult thing to do and far from impossible.



What if some geeks built a computer controlled GPS guided "crop bot" that they could program the design into, drop off in the field and just let it go? Maybe its not even unmanned and they have to drive it around with help from a guidance system. Just think about how tt would be nearly invisible or at least undetectable in the middle of a field of crops at ground level, viewed from the same gound level elevation especially under the cover of darkness.

Heck maybe they even built one that uses microwave, magnetic or even air power to flatten the crops.


I tend to think that the simplier looking ones are the ones that could be created by some natrual phenomenom or a UFO landing.



Does anyone know where I could find some information abou the analysis of the perfectly bent crops as in undamaged?

yeah warp, but F22 is not made by some local drunks with a ropes and planks, its a big project, with lots of scientists working on it, with a lot of time to spare, circles are made in matter of minutes...well except if humans make them...then it takes at least a day or two...or more

I dont think you understand the complexity of some of these circles, there are ratios and angles in these circles that most people dont even understand let alone would be able to do it with simple tools. You need a computer guided microwave cannon or something, and still you couldnt produce the results found in genuine phenomenon circles. And even if you had these tools, you still need a VERY clever designer to come up with these amazing pictograms. Its not impossible, its just less likely than lets say....government, dr.evil, ailieens

peace