It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by Al Davison
help me out a little, please. where do you find information that Judaism has declared Jesus to be a prophet? I've heard that before but never seen the actual reference.
Originally posted by Ryanp5555
To be honest with you I got the information from a few Jewish friends, and also I have read it on this board. I haven't obtained the information from any concrete source, however, I will try to find something on it now. My apologies if he isn't a prophet in their religion.
True--there were a lot of so-called Messiahs who emerged at the time. However, most turned tail and/or changed their story after a good beating at the order of the Sanhedrin. And of course, lost the fervency of their respective followings after that.
Originally posted by Al Davison
OK, well there is a bit of a Christian bias to the idea that "the Jews" or even the Temple leaders / Sanheidran spent a lot of time thinking about this Jesus guy - they didn't. He was really just one more in a long line of folks trying to portray themselves as the Messiah - it was a pretty popular gig back in those days. So, Jesus was just one more nuisance that they had to deal with in the course of their day-to-day business.
But, like I said, the Roman presence was seen as a thorn to their independence, and the Jews were fiercely independent. They did not fall back on the Romans if at all possible.
So, dispatching nuisances and trouble-makers was just all in a day's work for the Sanheidran and they had the cooperation of the local Roman authorities for whenever they needed it.
My intention here is not to offend anyone - just trying to present history without all the overloading of a normal and perfectly understandable Christian slant.
Originally posted by queenannie38
True--there were a lot of so-called Messiahs who emerged at the time. However, most turned tail and/or changed their story after a good beating at the order of the Sanhedrin. And of course, lost the fervency of their respective followings after that.
Originally posted by Al Davison
OK, well there is a bit of a Christian bias to the idea that "the Jews" or even the Temple leaders / Sanheidran spent a lot of time thinking about this Jesus guy - they didn't. He was really just one more in a long line of folks trying to portray themselves as the Messiah - it was a pretty popular gig back in those days. So, Jesus was just one more nuisance that they had to deal with in the course of their day-to-day business.
But to crucify a Jew, even for blasphemy, was not common practice at all. It was a Roman type execution and the Jews did not usually let the Romans have much to do with their punishments. They resented the Roman rule, above all, and rebelled more than once while under it.
There are also mentions of Jesus, it seems, in other Jewish writings, such as the Babylonian Talmud and the Mishna which show there was a certain obsession with this particular Messiah, that lasted for some time after His death.
And the records of various places show that His disciples did meet with martyr's deaths, often at the hands of the Jews, as well. Men do not die for something that isn't true, and there would be no need to kill any followers who had given up on their leader because He had died.
But, like I said, the Roman presence was seen as a thorn to their independence, and the Jews were fiercely independent. They did not fall back on the Romans if at all possible.
So, dispatching nuisances and trouble-makers was just all in a day's work for the Sanheidran and they had the cooperation of the local Roman authorities for whenever they needed it.
queenannie38, thanks!
You and I agree on quite a lot but not completely on this section that I quoted. Of course, I think we were both giving the "Reader's Digest" version and I suspect that we both know a great deal more of the details than either of us presented. This issue, with all the details, conjectures, probablies, etc. has been discussed extensively in other threads so I don't want to hijack this one but, the one item that you said that troubles me and to which I think is worth responding here is the idea that Jesus was important to the Jews after his death. OK, the "fact" of that is not really wrong (just too big to go into here) but, my point (yes, I'm finally getting to one!) is that I think what the Jewish leadership was reacting to AFTER the death of this particular Jesus was the fledgling and competing religion that was beginning to surface.
None of that negates what I said previously because all that I said referred to events leading up to the death of Jesus. (I must sidebar here that I do not actually believe most of this NT story to begin with but, for the sake of this discussion...) I must also take exception to the assertion that people do not willingly die for things that are not true - history is chock-full of examples of such. There are even more examples of people being killed for a "false cause" so, there's been a ton of blood shed over falsehoods all throughout history so, I cannot credit "people died for this so, it must be true".
Overall, though, I don't want to start any serious argument with you because you have shown your knowledge to be worthy even though our conclusions differ. In other words, I'm afraid you would kick my butt in a debate.