NEWS: New Study: Smoking While Pregnant Linked To Badly Behaved Children.

A new study by doctors have found that pregnant mothers who smoke have a high risk of delivering a baby with antisocial/hyperkinetic disorders. The study was conducted using 1,896 twins born between 1980 and 1991 in Greater Manchester, England. Antisocial behavior for this study was defined as bullying, frequently destroying one's own toys or the toys of others, a habit of stealing, lying or disobedience.



Truly, this is another black mark against Smoking.
Smoking while pregnant has already so many negative effects, such as increased chance of still birth and Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS).

I've often heard that quitting smoking while pregnant will harm the baby, this is a complete myth. Smoking greatly effects the development of the unborn child and lowers the rate of oxygen that the baby receives.

Related News Links:
www.dailymail.co.uk
www.elitestv.com
www.surebaby.com

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
I dont think smoking is as bad as they say
Smoking in Public / Cancer
people v tobacco companies





[edit on 1/8/2005 by Umbrax]

From the introduction
The study reveals that relatively high concentrations of nicotine can alter brain development of the unborn child.

This statement caught my attention - it suggested that they actually studied brain development of unborn children. So I checked the actual article.

From the linked article
Two studies support the notion that expectant mothers who smoke expose their unborn children to relatively high concentrations of nicotine, which can alter brain development.

The two statements are not equivalent. The introduction says something that the linked article doesn't. I also checked the actual journals. Unfortunately, I don't have access to the full texts, but the abstracts do not indicate that they actually studied brain development either.

The introduction should be revised. imho

Or maybe stupid parents who don't give a damn about their children's health or wellbeing produce badly behaved children. This seems a much more reasonable conclusion based on the data.

It's not the cigarettes, it's the parents.

My guess is that the mothers who kept smoking while pregnant continued the pattern of irresponsible behavior after delivery, and poorly-behaved brats resulted.

Then again, the anti-smoking nazis will seize on any excuse to demonize people who think differently than they do.

ok so the study shows that TWINS have this issue..

I do not see studies done on single birth pregnancies.

Or maybe stupid parents who don't give a damn about their children's health or wellbeing produce badly behaved children. This seems a much more reasonable conclusion based on the data.

What data? The news story didn't contain any data - only conclusions. I don't have access to the actual data, do you? Your conclusion is, of course, entirely possible because it was a statistical study. That's why I was so stunned at the statement about brain development. What seems clear based on two studies cited by the news story (and more than likely other previous studies) is that there is a statistical link between bad childhood behavior and parents who smoke. If that is really true, isn't that an important fact for parents to consider, regardless of the mechanism by which it occurs?

I was reading this part:

A study by doctors at Aarhus University in Copenhagen, published in the journal Pediatrics, found that expectant mothers who smoked had a nearly three-fold risk of having a child with hyperkinetic disorders, which involves excessive muscular activity, inattention and impulsive behaviour including ADHD.

It's not actual data, obviously, we're receiving it filtered and synopsized.

Still, this is firstly a simple corrolary, no proof at all. Secondly, the conclusion that the smoking was the cause of the behavioral problems is fallacious. It seems pretty clear to me that anybody who smokes during pregnancy is going to have a hard time mustering enough effort to raise a well-behaved kid.

Parenting isn't easy. You don't get to have a life after you bring children into the world. Everything has to revolve around them. These mothers who couldn't overcome their own selfishness are the problem, not the freakin' cigarettes.

I've located the British Journal of Psychiatry's article on the study. To get the full article you need to pay for a subscription. But this link will give out lots of information on the study for those interested.
Relationship between antisocial behaviour, attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder and maternal prenatal smoking

Scroll to the bottom for highlights.

... Secondly, the conclusion that the smoking was the cause of the behavioral problems is fallacious.

I just reread the article (again). I didn't see verbiage that suggests or states a causual relationship between smoking and behavioral problems. It simply states that there is a statistical link between mothers who smoke and poorly behaved children. There is a diference.

It seems pretty clear to me that anybody who smokes during pregnancy is going to have a hard time mustering enough effort to raise a well-behaved kid.

anybody who smokes will have trouple raising a well behaved kid? Nice generalization. Totally unsustainable by facts and an insult to countless parents.

I think this should prompt the debate long overdue regarding ADHD, psychological or physiological? I think it's the former, rather than the latter, and this is based on our inability to develop accurate tests relying on physiology, if I'm not mistaken, the relevant tests are all psychological or symptom-based.

I seriously question the integrity of the source material's author (and by proxy this thread's author, who chose to parrot the erroneous conclusion), given that he/she has chosen to mis-represent the study to suit the popular anti-smoking agenda.

And furthermore, this experiment was reliant on questionare answers, not even hard data collected from parents and children.

This is the scientific equivalent of a crappy carny ride. Save your money. Buy more cigarettes. I'll even light 'em for ya'.

anybody who smokes will have trouple raising a well behaved kid? Nice generalization. Totally unsustainable by facts and an insult to countless parents.

Anyone who puts their unborn child at risk by smoking during pregnancy is more likely to be an unfit parent because of their demonstrated inability to think of their child's welfare first. The conclusion is not an insult, the behavior is.

Quitting smoking during pregnancy is an excercise in willpower, selflessness, and discipline. All three are absolutely critical in raising good kids. So yes, the conclusion is supportable by fact, and I bet you dollars to doughnuts that if you conducted a study about what sort of parents 'bad' kids have, a solid majority would be selfish twits themselves.

Exceptions are the rule, obviously. Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I maintain my stance.

[edit on 1-8-2005 by WyrdeOne]

I think this should prompt the debate long overdue regarding ADHD, psychological or physiological?

You are changing the subject.

I seriously question the integrity of the source material's author (and by proxy this thread's author, who chose to parrot the erroneous conclusion), given that he/she has chosen to mis-represent the study to suit the popular anti-smoking agenda.

Fine. I hate the way the media reports science too. But the fact still remains, as reported in the original journal article:

Results Maternal prenatal smoking contributed small but significant amounts to the variance of ADHD and of antisocial behaviour. The best fitting bivariate model was one in which maternal prenatal smoking had a specific influence on each phenotype, independent of the effect on the other phenotype.

Translation - there is a statistical link between prenatal smoking and the occurance of ADHD and antisocial behavior. You can all you want. Unless you have data to the contrary, that fact remains.

And furthermore, this experiment was reliant on questionare answers, not even hard data collected from parents and children.

Ummmm....

Method Questionnaires concerning behaviour and environmental factors were sent to twins from the CaStANET study and data analysed using a number of bivariate structural equation models.

Not sure what kind of 'hard data' you want. They asked about behavior and environment for some known sample. Unless the researchers are completely incompetent, the sample included kids that had smoking parents and kids that had non-smoking parents. They crunched the numbers and applied some statistical models. The data is what the data is.

Statistics are always trotted out by those that have a point to prove, but lack any sort of evidence to prove the point. So it goes here.

"There are lies, damn lies, and then there are statistics." -- Mark Twain

You are changing the subject.

ADHD is part of the topic - we're discussing whether or not the smoking of the parents affected a change in the physiology of the children (that's my question anyway). If ADHD is a reaction to environmental conditions, as opposed to a biological condition that could be tied to the effect of nicotine on the fetus, then the link between ADHD and cigarettes is non-existent. If the nicotine can't be tied to a change in the brain that induces the anti-social behavior, then the anti-social behavior is not related to cigarettes, it's related to smoking parents. Am I using flawed logic, it seems straight as an arrow to me, but correct me if you think I've erred in connecting the three dots.

The smoking of the parents is simply another symptom of another 'disease' that effects children, parental neglect.

Results Maternal prenatal smoking contributed small but significant amounts to the variance of ADHD and of antisocial behaviour. The best fitting bivariate model was one in which maternal prenatal smoking had a specific influence on each phenotype, independent of the effect on the other phenotype.

Translation - there is a statistical link between prenatal smoking and the occurance of ADHD and antisocial behavior. You can all you want. Unless you have data to the contrary, that fact remains.

Never questioned that, I questioned the relevance to cigarettes. The smoking parents should be the focus IMO, not the evidence of their selfish behavior (cigarettes). If you can tie nicotine to ADHD, I'd be interested. What this study tells me is something different. It tells me that stupid parents raise stupid, out of control kids. Call me crazy, but don't we know this already?

I, for one, take the concept of parenting very seriously. To endanger your link to the next generation is insane, it's inhuman, or at least, it's sub-human. That sort of behavior is tantamount to suicide, evolutionarily speaking. It speaks to a tragically twisted environment.

Not sure what kind of 'hard data' you want.

Evidence of a change in fetal brain chemistry would be a nice start. We know smoking deprives the fetus of oxygen, right? We know that nicotine can pass the barrier into the child, right? We know that ADHD/anti-social behavior is physiological..oh, wait, NO WE DON"T. If it's a disease created by crap parents and irresponsible societies, then it has nothing to do with smoking!

What's the test these days for ADHD?
www.cdc.gov...

This crap makes me SICK! They're drugging millions of kids straight up to the gills, why? Because they're acting like kids do when they're not taught how to act!

This is completely insane, and now people are going to start blaming cigarettes! You don't even want to know how many of those symptoms I've exhibited over the course of my development into the man I am today. Make no mistake, I would be different if my mother had taken the easy way out. I don't think children are worthless enough to poison into complacency (chewable valiums and prozac flavored soda is right around the corner).

These parents are doing a great disservice to their children, and to society. In turn, society is doing a great disservice to parents by persuading them through pseudo-science that it's okay to use drugs to discipline your children. Something like 2/3 of the chjldren in the care of the state are on psychoactive meds, and now the state wants to test every kid in the system so they can drug them up too.

The data is what the data is.

In my opinion, what the data is, is insufficient.

Actually, this might explain the rapid increase in ADHD diagnoses over the past two decades. Smoking among women was relatively rare, even when I was young.

But in China there are more smokers, and fewer cases of ADHD. Wouldn't that not be the case if there was a link between prenatal nicotine consumption and ADHD in children?

It might, but medical practice in China might not be as it is here and the Western world.

I agree that kids are too often drugged for convenience sake. Increased smoking among pregnant women, combined with ever increasingly permissive (read: negligent) parenting styles lead to Ritilin addiction among young children, especially young boys.

Spare the rod; drug the child.


[edit on 2005/8/2 by GradyPhilpott]

Firstly, my partner smoked (and quite heavily too, she is a stroppy cow) when she was pregnant with my little girl. She is now nearly 2 and the most well behaved, balanced, caring little girl. This is from all the love we give her and the amount of time we donate to her.

Guranteed that the parents themselves where not a factor in this investigation.

Secondly, ADHD is rubbish. It is just another label to stigmatize children who have lacked the balanced input of caring parents. then what do they do to try and "correct" bad behaviour? Pump you full of mind altering drugs......all at great cost as well, I might add.

All these little labels for people to be stuck with, it's so stupid as it is nothing more than being human for half of them.

I watched a program on Sky last night with Paul Mckenna and some woman who had low self-esteem.

They actually had a name for her "condition", called Body Dismorphia..I mean, come on...the woman had low self esteem because she thought she wasn't beautiful and in all honesty she wasn't massivley attractive....but.....why be so shallow (strangely enough the woman was a beauty therapist, so propably bought into the whole Cosmo thing) and care so much that they give you a condition? Get a grip and face up to your own responsibility's people...

Damn I didn't smoke...yet my kids are out of control and anti social

Actually they are just very smart and get bored fast unless they are doing something with their minds or hands....

ADHD does exist, its just been overused and over diagnosed for every child who doesn't fit the mould.

Stumason
That's cool you've got a good kid. I'm really glad for you, no sarcasm intended.

Mayet
The random factor makes it fun for everyone, like a casino game!

You hear this sort of story enough to make it credible, great parents who really love their kids, and the kid turns out to be a serial killer or rapist or something. It's not always the fault of the parents, sometimes it's the wiring of the kid, or just that sticky free will business on the part of the child.


[edit on 2-8-2005 by WyrdeOne]

Stumason
That's cool you've got a good kid. I'm really glad for you, no sarcasm intended.

None taken ....She is good now...but the terrible two's are starting...she is very much discovering her "individuality"...."No!Mine!Mine!".....but on the whole she is an angel

[edit on 2/8/05 by stumason]

It just seems to me that there are probably less women who smoke while pregnant these days as we know the danger. I would think that the badly misbehaved group would have been my generation of 30 somethings. I have heard of many mothers of people my age who smoked while pregnant. They also had the occasional or daily glass of wine or beer. That was before they really knew the dangers of these things while pregnant. Yet...my generation didn't seem to have a disproportionate amount of badly behaved children, or children with attention disorders. I do think that those disorders exist, but I also think parenting has something to do with it as well. Medication is not always the answer.

I have three very active girls, yet I can take them anywhere as they know how to behave, well...except the two year old. I can relate. She has been a little terror lately!

I am also going off topic a bit here, but parenting has seemed to change a lot. Do you know that parents are hiring experts to train their children things such as potty training and learning to ride a two wheeler? One parent stated that she was nervous teaching her daughter to ride, and that transferred to her daughter, so hiring an expert is the best thing. What??? I thought teaching your children all these things is the best part of parenthood. You can also hire someone to bake cupcakes and sew on boy scout badges....sigh... I guess I must be old school. lol