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did Joseph McCarthy know the truth?

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posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 11:55 AM
every textbook in America depicts him as a nut and blatant liar for alerting the world about Soviet espionage. I recently found out about the VENONA Project which found evidence to back up McCarthy's claims. the VENONA transcripts were released in 1995. did McCarthy know the truth or was everything taught in public schools about McCarthyism true? seems to me like he was pushed out and discredited for stepping on some toes! if he was credible what other events/conspiracies could this tie into?

posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 12:03 PM

In 1995, when the VENONA transcripts were declassified, further detailed information was revealed about Soviet Union espionage in the United States. VENONA specifically references at least 349 people in the United States - including citizens, immigrants, and permanent residents - who cooperated in various ways with Soviet intelligence agencies.

It is generally believed that McCarthy had no access to VENONA intelligence. VENONA confirms that some individuals investigated by McCarthy were indeed Soviet agents. For example, Mary Jane Keeney, a United Nations employee, was identified as a Communist, and her husband Philip Keeney, who worked in the Office of Strategic Services, both Soviet agents. Another individual named by McCarthy was Lauchlin Currie, a special assistant to President Roosevelt. He was confirmed by VENONA to be a Soviet Agent.

Venona transcripts confirm the Senate Civil Liberties Subcommittee, chaired by former Senator Robert LaFollette, Jr., whom McCarthy defeated for election in 1946, had at least four staff members working on behalf of Soviet intelligence. Chief Councel of the Committee John Abt; Charles Kramer, who served on three other Congressional Committees; Allen Rosenberg, who also served on the National Labor Relations Board, Board of Economic Warfare (BEW), and the Foreign Economic Administration (FEA); and Charles Flato, who served on the BEW and FEA, all were Communist Party members and associated with the Comintern.

its a speculation that he had access to the files on possible Communist agents. however he over did it wen goin after people with no evidence except accusations that they are Communists. its kinda like accusing Lucille Ball for having red hair to represent that she is a Communist. or that wearing a red shirt makes u a Commie.

[edit on 1-8-2005 by deltaboy]

posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 01:50 PM
I think McCarthy has been vindicated. I doubt he had direct access to the cables, but it's very likely that he was told some, if not all of, the information contained in those cables. I'm sure he was made aware of the situation and that he could never under any circumstances reveal his sources. Because of this, liberals ever since have made him out to be a nutjob, a fearmonger and an enemy of freedom. He was no such thing. To answer your question- YES, what we and our children are taught in the history books about McCarthy is almost all wrong. He was a true American hero, regardless of his embellishments. No one is perfect. But I'll settle for his batting average anyday of the week!

posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 02:22 PM
I'm not a liberal and I think he was a fruitcake. I watched many of the hearings he conducted on capitol hill and he sounded wacko.

posted on Aug, 1 2005 @ 10:13 PM
can you imagine being in his position? he was surrounded by Soviet agents while trying to expose them for what they were. I imagine thats enough pressure to make a strong man start to crack. I think a mixture of passion and fear played at least some role in his demeanor. he was in a very dangerous situation and knew it. up until the time I read the info released in 1995 I would have agreed with you 100% Astronomer68. I do believe the information at least partially vindicates his stance. I personally would take that type of nutjob over the nutjobs we have now...and I have been of the Republican train of thought since my first political views formed. that was definitely a sobering realization of just how forged our version of history can be!

posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 01:22 AM
The VENONA project hardly justifies McCarthy's madness, besides it's highly unlikely that he would have had even the slightest indirect access to it. Heck the president of the United States barely knew about it why exactly would some nobody senator be made aware of it?

Honestly is anyone surprised that the Communists had spies in our government wow I'd never have seen that coming.
But come on just because a nation has a few spies in place doesnt mean there is a huge infestation of communist agents in every level of society. Especially not a situation warranting the more or less random witchhunt enacted by a paranoid reactionary who saw communists every where.

posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 08:28 AM
Seems to me that cultural beliefs, folkways, and morés cycle quite often, in the greater scheme of things. I believe that McCarthy was on the cusp of a swing to a more liberal viewpoint. He was, so to speak, the death throes of the warrior mentality that our country had acquired over the period of WWII. He ended up being the signal that there was a time for a change at hand.

Interestingly, the cycle appears to be swinging back toward the mentality, and cultural style that brought us McCarthy, and the "red mania". However, rest assured that, if we survive as a nation, that it will eventually swing back the other way.

There is no right or wrong way to survive as a nation, merely what the people of that nation perceive as needed, in order to survive.

posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 09:09 AM

Originally posted by Astronomer68
I'm not a liberal and I think he was a fruitcake. I watched many of the hearings he conducted on capitol hill and he sounded wacko.

Totally. Paranoid meglomanic alcoholic.

Certainly there were some grains of truth to some of his wilder conspiracy theories, but that doesn't excuse his activities or the broad brush strokes with which he painted virtually our entire government from Ike on down as cowardly sympathisers. Ridiculous.

For anyone that's since been convinced by angry AM radio revisionism that this nut was anything more than a certifiable loon at the bottom of a bottle by the end of career, read more. He has not been vindicated. That kind of patriotism is patently unAmerican.

posted on Aug, 2 2005 @ 09:33 AM
Joeseph McCarthy, thats my soccer coach's name! lol.

(^sorry, off topic)

but yeah, the guy's a regular Titor. completely insane.

posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 03:18 AM
You know, as bad as he was (and that's pretty bad), he probably did influence the entire nation's thinking concerning communists and communism. Our country would probably have not been able to demonize the communists, as effectively as it did, for several more years without his witch hunts. Sure, we all poo-pooed him and threw rocks at him in public--and he deserved them--but, at the same time he scared the crap out of us and was probably instrumental in starting the cold war.

posted on Aug, 3 2005 @ 07:06 AM
Have any of you read the book " The Naked Communist"? You should.

It was written in the 1950's. Interlibrary loan the book if you must. I don't remember who the author is but it sure was an eye opener.


posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 02:30 AM
astronomer68, I agre completely with your opinion of how he influenced our view of communism. from what I have gathered from talking with others who experienced those times firsthand the opinion of communism was the same it was just more fashionable or acceptable to voice it. I wish I could step back in time to see for myself.

roper, I havent found that title in my local library's online database. can you tell us a little more about this book?

Rant, I dont remember the exact numer of people VENONA cited but his accuracy percentage was well above .500 as far as the names he named publicly as being a card carrying commie so to speak
I am looking for a link to those transcripts. looking back at this post I couldnt believe I posted a wikipedia link & not one to that. I must have been self medicating that day

posted on Sep, 9 2005 @ 07:03 AM
In 1958, Cleon Skoussen, former FBI agent, revealed in his book, THE NAKED COMMUNIST, the long term goals of the communist agenda. This information is also contained not only in the Congressional Record (August 1963), bt also in the Communist Manifesto itself. These are a few lines of the Commie Manifesto.

Roper, at your service.

Interlibrary loan it.

U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

Develop the illusion that total disarmament by the U.S. would be a demonstration of moral strength.

Permit free trade between all nations regardless of communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

Provide American aid to all nations regardless of communist domination.

Set up East West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.S.

Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the United Nations.

Promote the United Nations as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces.

Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

Do away with loyalty oaths.

Capture one or both of the political parties in the U.S.

Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current communist propaganda. Get control of the teachers associations.

Gain control of all student newspapers.

Infiltrate the press. Get control of book review assignments, editorial writing, policy-making positions.

Gain control of key positions in radio, TV and motion pictures.

Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them censorship and a violation of free speech and free press.

Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures and TV.

Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as normal, natural and healthy.

Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with social religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a religious crutch.

Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the grounds that it violates the principles of separation of church and state.

Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the grounds that it was only a minor part in the big picture.

Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the communist apparatus.

Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents.

Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American traditions; that students and special interest groups should rise up and use united force to solve economic, political and social problems.


[edit on 9-9-2005 by Roper]

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