Muslim Extremists & Jesus Christ

In all the time that the conflicts have been going on in the Middle East, from the colonial times to the present colonization, has there been any records of the terrorists claiming that Jesus Christ is in league with Shaitan, or that Jesus Christ was a false prophet? Have they even had any of their prominent clerics, on par with Jerry Farwell - Pat Robertson - Billy Graham, who have demonized Jesus Christ the way Christianity's Leaders have done to Muhammed?

I would really like to know if anyone is up to speed on this - or should I post it in Religion?

there is no god but one true God. God does not have a son. thats the view of the Islam. also they believe there is no sin so its a wonder why the Islamic extremists believe they dont feel guilty about killing innocents.

From my understanding, and I could be wrong, Islam regards Jesus not as the messiah, but as a prophet. I'm sure many disagree with that, though, just as is the case with Jews. Many Jews believe Jesus was a prophet, but many more disagree because...Well, you know, he called himself God and all. So really, Islam and Judaism should regard Jesus as a false prophet. I've heard both sides from Jews, but I've only heard the prophet side from Muslims.

Might be a good thing to throw into Faith & Spirituality, unless you're planning on making a dig against Christianity, in which case it would probably be moved to Rants or the Slug Fest anyway.

I just U2Ued bodrul to check this out. What better source to find out for sure than through a devout Muslim?

EDIT: Spelling

[edit on 7-29-2005 by junglejake]

Jesus is not just a prophet in Islam, he is THE prophet, the one that will return on Judgement Day.
He was born of a virgin, he preformed miracles, he ascended to Heaven and is waiting there for the end of days.

No Muslim would EVER show disrespect towards Jesus, or any other Prophet. That is a gross sin.
We Muslims believe in ALL prophets equaly.

A quote from the Qur'an:

(2:136) Say, "We believe in GOD, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs; and in what was given to Moses and Jesus, and all the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are submitters."

We do not use the term Son of God, because only humans have sons and daughters; God, an almighty all-powerful non-corporeal being, logicaly has creations, so that is how we refer to Jesus too, God's creation.

Paperclip, what do you believe when it comes to Jesus claiming He was God, though?

Jesus is not God.
God and Jesus are two distinct entities.
God always existed, he created everything including Jesus, so Jesus cannot be God.

Originally posted by paperclip
Jesus is not God.
God and Jesus are two distinct entities.
God always existed, he created everything including Jesus, so Jesus cannot be God.

I understand that, but what I'm asking is about Him actually saying it. Do you believe His words were misrepresented by the Bible, or that He wasn't being truthful when He said that? Also, if you think He was misrepresented in the Bible, what source do you have for the teachings and prophesy he made?

It is possible that he was misquoted.
People who wrote the Bible were humans, so prone to mistakes.

Other thing that probably happened was that the original words got lost in translation through the centuries.

Much of his teachings is also in Qur'an.
Bible is considered a Holy Book and teachings of the Bible, that do not conflict with the Qur'an somehow, can be accepted.

Please understand I'm not accusing you of this, nor do I mean to suggest you support this behavior. I'm just trying to understand.

If Islam considers the Bible a holy book, excluding the parts that contradict the Qu'ran, why do countries like Saudi Arabia and other Islamic theocracies not only condone but seem to promote the desecration and destruction of the Bible?

Is because a conflict is a conflict - two sides have come to a point that instigates agressions. I've not found the reciprocal to what the Farwells & Grahams have done to/said about Muhammed.
Also, I don't consider them the face of Christianity - just hucksters.

Originally posted by junglejake
Please understand I'm not accusing you of this, nor do I mean to suggest you support this behavior. I'm just trying to understand.

If Islam considers the Bible a holy book, excluding the parts that contradict the Qu'ran, why do countries like Saudi Arabia and other Islamic theocracies not only condone but seem to promote the desecration and destruction of the Bible?

As far as I know, it is only Saudi Arabia doing it, and it is frowned upon by most people there too.

They do it mainly for political reasons. Qur'an is the foundation of their power, they think other books will weaken it, so they do not allow it.

All those in power do it. Democracy demonised communism, communism demonised democracy, capitalism demonises social democracy and socialism etc, etc.
Some of these are more subtle then others, but they exist everywhere.

As BoutTime pointed out, Fallwell (who is practicaly worshiped by milions) has demonised absolutely everything but his own version of christianity and I am sure if he had more power he would burn every other holy book.

Jesus is included in the Koran as Isa and is the 2nd most important prophet behind Mohammed, but the Isa described in the Koran is far different from the Jesus of the New Testament. For example, they don't believe he was crucified, they think God switched Judas for Jesus and Judas was crucified for betraying him.

to depict our radicals in the proper light; that they speak from a fringe element position and do not represent our beliefs, despite lack of support from the White House.
Saying one thing & then inviting the Grahams to the WH is the wrong message - or the rights message, depeneding on how you look at it.

Originally posted by Bout TimeSo as Christians, I think we have an obligation to depict our radicals in the proper light; that they speak from a fringe element position and do not represent our beliefs, despite lack of support from the White House.
Saying one thing & then inviting the Grahams to the WH is the wrong message - or the rights message, depeneding on how you look at it.

Who do you refer to as radicals? You pointed out the Grahams, and I'm assuming you're Billy-specific. I have yet to hear anything come out of that man's mouth I disagree with. I can't say I've heard/read a lot, but what I have heard/read has been rather encouraging.

So what makes a radical Christian?

[edit on 8-2-2005 by junglejake]

Originally posted by Bout Time
to depict our radicals in the proper light; that they speak from a fringe element position and do not represent our beliefs, despite lack of support from the White House.
Saying one thing & then inviting the Grahams to the WH is the wrong message - or the rights message, depeneding on how you look at it.

So, just to make sure I understandwhat you are saying, can you be specific as to whom you consider a radical and whom you consider to be correct in their approach to Christian teaching.? It would really help me in formulating a reply or in determining whether a reply is necessary. Thanks.


Lightseeker

I think he was talking about people like Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson.
Here are a few of Falwell's brain farts:

"If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure as a human being"

"It appears that America's anti-Biblical feminist movement is at last dying, thank God, and is possibly being replaced by a Christ-centered men's movement which may become the foundation for a desperately needed national spiritual awakening"



Now a few by Pat Robertson:

"When I said during my presidential bid that I would only bring Christians and Jews into the government, I hit a firestorm. "What do you mean?" the media challenged me. "You're not going to bring atheists into the government? How dare you maintain that those who believe in the Judeo-Christian values are better qualified to govern America than Hindus and Muslims?" My simple answer is, "Yes, they are."

"God's pattern is for men to be the leaders, both in the church and in the family... "Women should listen and learn quietly and submissively. I do not let women teach men or have authority over them."

"The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians."

Originally posted by paperclip
I think he was talking about people like Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson.

I would have agreed had the Ghram family not been singled out. As it stands, I'm of the mind that he meant fundamentalist Christians who follow the Bible and not the current culture. I could be wrong, though, which is why I'm keeping my fingers tied for the moment

paperclip has it right, and I am being specific about the respect issue & it's non existent reciprosity.

Franklin Graham is the son of Billy Graham -- arguably the best known Evangelical Christian leader in the U.S.

2001-OCT: At the dedication of a chapel near Wilkesboro, NC in his parents' name, Graham is quoted as having expressed essentially the same views as he later did on NOV-16 (see below). He later issued a statement to the Charlotte Observer saying "It is not my calling to analyze Islam or any other religions, though I recognize that all religions have differences. In the past, I have expressed my concerns about the teachings of Islam regarding the treatment of women and the killing of non-Muslims or infidels." 1
2001-NOV-16: According to MSNBC, Franklin Graham appeared on the NBC Nightly News, commenting on Islam. He allegedly said: "We're not attacking Islam but Islam has attacked us. The God of Islam is not the same God. He's not the son of God of the Christian or Judeo-Christian faith. It's a different God, and I believe it [Islam] is a very evil and wicked religion." This statement is confusing because he seems to imply that Jews believe that Jesus is the son of God -- a belief that is contrary to historical Jewish belief. He continued: "I don’t believe this is a wonderful, peaceful religion. When you read the Koran and you read the verses from the Koran, it instructs the killing of the infidel, for those that are non-Muslim." When asked by NBC News to clarify his statement, Graham repeated his charge that Islam, as a whole, is an evil. "It wasn’t Methodists flying into those buildings, it wasn’t Lutherans. It was an attack on this country by people of the Islamic faith." NBC news contacted Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and other Christian leaders. None would would comment on Graham’s attacks.

*****

2002-AUG: Graham "said during an interview that Muslims hadn't sufficiently apologized for the terrorist attacks — and he challenged Muslim leaders to offer to help rebuild Lower Manhattan or compensate the families of victims to show they condemn terrorism." 4 He followed this with a series of remarks about Islam and Muslims as he promoted his new book: "The Name." In that book, he wrote that: "Islam — unlike Christianity — has among its basic teachings a deep intolerance for those who follow other faiths."
2002-SEP: During an interview with Beliefnet.com, he said that after the terrorist attacks: "there was this hoo-rah around Islam being a peaceful religion — but then you start having suicide bombers, and people start saying, 'Wait a minute, something doesn't add up here.' "



****
2003-APR-13: ...the Pentagon arranged to sponsor Franklin Grayam at a Good Friday prayer service on APR-18. Members of the Pentagon's chaplain group issued a letter stating that: "...we are deeply dismayed and disappointed that the Pentagon Chaplain's Office has invited Mr. Franklin Graham, an extremely controversial and divisive figure, to perform the Good Friday Services at the Pentagon on April 18, 2003. Mr. Graham has made recent public statements that are not only insulting and offensive to Muslims but also to those who espouse ecumenism among the faith groups. Mr. Graham's negative statements concerning Islam and Muslims, which he has never recanted, fly in the face of what we stand for as Americans. By sponsoring and promoting a visit to the Pentagon by an extreme fundamentalist like Mr. Graham, the Pentagon Chaplain's Office is sending a message that it and the Department of Defense condone public displays of attitudes and thoughts that contradict not only Department of Defense regulations but also the American ideal of religious tolerance. We hope and pray that the Pentagon Chaplain's Office will reconsider its invitation to Mr. Graham and instead invite a more inclusive and honorable Christian clergyman to perform the Good Friday Services."


Above from Religious Tolerance.org

Billy Graham was on record, via the release of the Nixon tapes, as making several anti-Semetic remarks, as well as supporting the ones made by Nixon. I don't know if he's on record as chastizing his son or if he supports his sons views.
"fundamentalist Christians" - I am at odds with all fundamentalists, regardless of the religion. It's a minor issue to be counter pop culture's trends, it's another to maintain beliefs that are anti-society ( i.e. intolerance, second class status of women, refusing medical care for their children).