Is the Media No Longer Controlled by the Left?

The Talking Points topic on the O'Reilly Factor last night suggested that there has been a shift away from liberal control of the media. He gave several examples, including the ouster of Bill Moyers at NPR, and more recently Michael Kinsley's removal as Editorial Director of the LA Times.

The reason he gives is simple: the average American is not an idealogue, and has grown weary of the constant drone of failure from the left wing. People are willing to accept that we have made mistakes in Abu Ghraib and Gitmo, but refuse to accept that these failures define America. It's not to say that we don't want to hear bad news, it's just that we don't want a steady diet of it. We want to hear both sides of an issue.

So why is the liberal media in retreat? Well, the answer is that most Americans are not ideologues. They're just everyday folks who want protection from people who would kill us. They want information about the border, about al Qaeda (search), about what the government is doing to defeat the enemy. Most Americans do not want to hear the USA is the bad guy in the war on terror, which some liberal media are pedaling. They do not feel the mistakes at Abu Ghraib (search) and Guantanamo Bay define this country. They do not believe the ACLU (search) is looking out for them.

Media

I tend to agree with him. For example, I never could listen to more than five minutes of Air America without changing the channel. Too dreary for me!

Aren't O'Reilly & Foxnews themselves partially responisble for that??!
Just watch the documentary Outfoxed: www.imdb.com...

It seems right-wing media is getting more popular by the day.

Left is Right and Right is Left, a farce the centre stage is.

I love O'Reilly! He's hilarious! I watch him every day after work. His 'Talking Points' are the best. The way he says what printed right next to him on the screen, cracks me up every time!

Anyway, the media was never controlled by the left, that's just silly. If you report something, without a spin on it to make the neo-cons look good, you are labeled 'liberal'. The reason for the neo-cons rise in the media is tied to who supports them. The corporations, the big business, that runs our country. The corporations help to get our politicians elected, and in turn, the politicians create an environment for which the corporations to thrive. It's a symbiotic relationship that has really exploded since Cheney and Rove have gotten into the White House. Since these coroporatists have more power, from everything to domestic and foreign policy, it's only natural that this power would be exercised in the media monopolies that a handful of people control. By swaying public opinion, by making people who do not think critically (most people) believe an alternate reality, more money can be made. The never ending goal.

Yes, yes, that mean, old, nasty, 'liberal media' is dead. Long live corporate media! Where the news is always good! Because bad news makes us feel sad.

The problem is that your entire arguement is frame incorrectly. The media isn't controlled by the left, anymore than it's controlled by the right. It's a straw man used by the New Pundits on the right to convince the public that they're actually mainstream. To convince the public that there is a giant, hidden secular agenda, thriving in the backrooms of the mainstream media, to promote baby killing and communism.

And it's all nonsense.

And it's the worst kind of nonsense, because it's exploiting the fears of people already prone to tent house revivals, the Left Behind novels, and Dr. Jack Van Impe. The same people who believe that there is a liberal agenda in the media, are also the same people who think it was okay for a gay prostitute to volley softball questions at the president...for a conservative website.

Now, if you wanna talk numbers. On a nightly basis, nearly three million hardcore conservative viewers watch O'Reilly and Hannity on FOX. If we are to believe your illogically framed arguement, then these are also people who reject the liberal tainted, mainstream media. That being said, 20-24 million viewers watch the nightly news on the three networks.

FOX news capped off with the maximum, peak high viewership of conservatives at around 3.5-4 million viewers. I mean, that's it. They hit their peak, and the bubble burst. Because now, MSNBC is trying to poach viewers away from Hannity and Greta, by offering alternative conservative programming. They're fighting over the same small group of viewers.

Do you know what that means?

That means that conservative new junkies are not the humbled masses of invisible americans, silently waiting in the wings and gripping the sides of their lazy-boys at the latest outrage of the day. That means they're not mainstream. They're in fact a niche group, like Trekkies are a niche group.

FOX news has hit the glass ceiling of viewership potential, which also means they've hit the glass ceiling of profit potential.

As a side note, since the Andrea Mackis sex scandal in Sept and October of 2004, Bill O'Reilly has been absolutely hemorrhagging ratings. They've been in a steady decline. More to the point, while he was easily pulling in 3.5 million viewers a night, he's now struggling to keep the number one spot away from Greta. And, there hasn't been a great surge or spike in her numbers, it just means that nearly a million people who used to watch FOX

Aren't anymore.

Edit: Delete double post

[edit on 27-7-2005 by jsobecky]

FOX News ratings continue to climb, I don't know where you got your info from.

Last night Greta got her all-time record.

Originally posted by brimstone735
The problem is that your entire arguement is frame incorrectly. The media isn't controlled by the left, anymore than it's controlled by the right. It's a straw man used by the New Pundits on the right to convince the public that they're actually mainstream.

And it's the worst kind of nonsense, because it's exploiting the fears of people already prone to tent house revivals, the Left Behind novels, and Dr. Jack Van Impe. The same people who believe that there is a liberal agenda in the media, are also the same people who think it was okay for a gay prostitute to volley softball questions at the president...for a conservative website.

I know plenty of intelligent, college educated people, that watch and listen to Fox, Severin, Carr, Limbaugh, etc. I'd have to mosey down to the local college campus to find a handful of fans of Air America.

It may make you feel better inside, may make you feel that you are part of some intellectual elite, to categorize the average American as "tent house revivalists", but you're only fooling yourself. Attitudes such as yours are why the liberals have gotten their lunch eaten in the last ten years of elections.

I'd like to hear your definition of mainstream.

Now, if you wanna talk numbers. On a nightly basis, nearly three million hardcore conservative viewers watch O'Reilly and Hannity on FOX. If we are to believe your illogically framed arguement, then these are also people who reject the liberal tainted, mainstream media. That being said, 20-24 million viewers watch the nightly news on the three networks.

FOX news capped off with the maximum, peak high viewership of conservatives at around 3.5-4 million viewers. I mean, that's it. They hit their peak, and the bubble burst. Because now, MSNBC is trying to poach viewers away from Hannity and Greta, by offering alternative conservative programming. They're fighting over the same small group of viewers.

Your math is wrong.
From Drudge today:
FLASH: 'GRETA' TOP OF CABLE NEWS RACE
NITE OF TUES, JULY 27, 2005

FOXNEWS GRETA 2,997,000 [VIEWERS]
FOXNEWS O'REILLY 2,705,000
FOXNEWS HANNITY/COMES 2,415,000
CNN LARRY KING 765,000
CNNHN NANCY GRACE 752,000
CNN PAULA ZAHN 623,000
CNN AARON BROWN 577,000
MSNBC SCARBOROUGH 462,000
MSNBC OLBERMANN 318,000
MSNBC HARDBALL 192,000
MSNBC TUCKER 178,000

FOX news has hit the glass ceiling of viewership potential, which also means they've hit the glass ceiling of profit potential.

An envious position, wouldn't you say?

You should also notice that MSNBC's Scarborough (who's conservative) gets the highest ratings of that network.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
FOX News ratings continue to climb, I don't know where you got your info from.

Last night Greta got her all-time record.

And she's overtaking O'Reilly, who used to bring an extra million viewers to FOX on a nightly basis. At this same time last year, O'Reilly was pulling in 3.5 million viewers a night. But, they've quickly vanished, and his viewership settled around 2.5 million viewers a night.

He lost a million viewers that haven't returned.

And hey, I'm happy for Greta. It's the one FOX news program I'm actually inclined to watch for actual facts and reporting. She's pulling in nearly 3 million viewers, a steady increase since last year. The problem is, these are casual viewers interested in Natalie Halloway, not loyal idealogues that once watched their programming block.

The simple truth is that FOX has been losing viewers since the November elections, only compounded by the flickering torch of O'Reilly. And while they're still pounding the crap out of CNN, the margins by which they're doing it is steadily shrinking. While once the great hope for conservatives everywhere, they've failed miserably in their goal to woo viewers away from the big three. They're not even in the same weight class.


P.S. Don't watch FOX news for actual news about their ratings.

FOX gets high ratings, because it's viewers use that as their only source of news. They just stare and nod approvingly, listening to what they believe being reaffirmed. Most people read a newspaper, watch some CNN, MSNBC, whatever. Read a book, a magazine. They get their news from a variety of sources. Obviously, that splits and divides the ratings among the literally hundreds of other media outlets.

People who need to believe that thiner government is going to hold them and tell them everything is ok, people who are scared on an uncertain future and change, full of self-doubt and insecurity, need constant affirmations that they are important, that they matter. They need to believe what they believe is right, because the alternative is too scary for them. So they constantly flocked to outlets that give them their daily fix of, "Don't worry, we have everything under control. You're #1!" That concetration, that flight from the fright of self awareness, creates and illusion of 'feel good' media outlets popularity.

i wouldn't go as far to say that the media is liberal. just because the right sees news and images depicting their beliefs they have quickly labeled media to be ruled by the left because any of it has been allowed to be broadcasted in any way.

everything in this country has skewed to the right for the most part from the past 10 years. there's no more center ground. bush's administration have pretty much made a mockery out of journalism by down-talking any intriguing questions or questions they know they can't answer without blatantly lying to the press yet their feet aren't being held to the fire as it should be.

with entire news shows completely missing middle ground and just giving the people what they want to hear to make them feel good inside is atrociously wrong. how can you do better as a person, a community, a country if you can't point out your faults and learn from them?

i guess overlooking them and allowing the monster to grow fatter is just fine and dandy

Originally posted by Zion Mainframe
It seems right-wing media is getting more popular by the day.

Yes, your right, Zion.
It would seem that the American people are getting tired of the 'cycle of hate and blame' message coming out from the mouths of left-wing media outlets.

Certainly worthy of having a thumbs down on, isn't it?




seekerof

[edit on 27-7-2005 by Seekerof]

According to this O'Reilly's June ratings were up 9% from June last year:

Total viewers:

7pm: Shep: +2% / Cooper: +7% / Hardball: -30% / Showbiz: +17% / Conan: +49%

8pm: O'Reilly: +9% / Zahn: -3% / Countdown: -1% / Grace: +239% / CNBC: +10%

9pm: H&C: +18% / King: -21% / MSNBC: 0% / Prime News: +36% / CNBC: -54%

10pm: Greta: +45% / NewsNight: -21% / Scarborough: -12% / Grace repeat: +97% / CNBC: -40%

Media Bistro

Originally posted by jsobecky
It may make you feel better inside, may make you feel that you are part of some intellectual elite, to categorize the average American as "tent house revivalists", but you're only fooling yourself. Attitudes such as yours are why the liberals have gotten their lunch eaten in the last ten years of elections.

Yes, yes. Blah, blah, blah. Liberals are bad and I'm an intellectual elitist.
Snoozefest, find some new material. I'm bored with the old stuff. The average american doesn't watch FOX news. In fact, very few Americans of the overall 300 million actuall watch fox news. More to the point, more Americans watch wrestling on Monday nights then they do O'Reilly.

Would wrestling fans be considered average americans?

More people get their news from the big three on a night basis. They're the average americans.

I'd like to hear your definition of mainstream.

Mainstream is the average american who watches the big three over FOX news by a ten to one ratio.

Your math is wrong.
From Drudge today:
FLASH: 'GRETA' TOP OF CABLE NEWS RACE
NITE OF TUES, JULY 27, 2005

FOXNEWS GRETA 2,997,000 [VIEWERS]
FOXNEWS O'REILLY 2,705,000
FOXNEWS HANNITY/COMES 2,415,000
CNN LARRY KING 765,000
CNNHN NANCY GRACE 752,000
CNN PAULA ZAHN 623,000
CNN AARON BROWN 577,000
MSNBC SCARBOROUGH 462,000
MSNBC OLBERMANN 318,000
MSNBC HARDBALL 192,000
MSNBC TUCKER 178,000

Damn right I got the numbers wrong, I gave FOX an extra 500,000 viewers.
You might be a little misguided, but these aren't individual viewers who are replaced like a revolving door after every televised hour. You can't just add them all up, based on each individual show.

These numbers mean that O'Reilly is a bigger conservative draw than Hannity. He brought in 2.7 million viewers on Tuesday. It was Hannity's job to RETAIN as many of those viewers as possible, which he did okay - but still lost 300,000 viewers of those initial 2.7 million viewers, between 7PM and 8PM. Give or take a couple hundred thousand of his fans for O'Reilly's fans.

Greta is doing fantastic, actually drawing in casual viewers who wouldn't normally watch FOX news. But, her numbers will drop once the Aruba case is solved, settled, or people get bored with it.

FOX news has hit the glass ceiling of viewership potential, which also means they've hit the glass ceiling of profit potential.

An envious position, wouldn't you say?


No, it's not an envious position. You misunderstand completely. When you hit a maximum ceiling of profit potential, it can't be explored anymore. There are not an unlimited number of conservative cable news viewers. FOX has hit the watershed, and they've exhausted all avenues of potential recruitment. Now they have to fight to retain that maximum number of viewers from being poached by MSNBC.

It's not like if they lose a million viewers, they can just look elsewhere for more viewers. It doesn't work that way. If FOX loses them, they're gone, and it will take ten times more work to get them back.

Originally posted by curme
I love O'Reilly! He's hilarious! I watch him every day after work. His 'Talking Points' are the best. The way he says what printed right next to him on the screen, cracks me up every time!

curme, do you think O'Reilly's the only one that uses a teleprompter??

The corporations help to get our politicians elected, and in turn, the politicians create an environment for which the corporations to thrive. It's a symbiotic relationship that has really exploded since Cheney and Rove have gotten into the White House.

Really? Who pulled the strings before 2000?

Yes, yes, that mean, old, nasty, 'liberal media' is dead. Long live corporate media! Where the news is always good! Because bad news makes us feel sad.

The news is not always good on the right. It's just that we don't dwell on it, like the hypochondriac that everyone avoids.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
According to this O'Reilly's June ratings were up 9% from June last year:

Total viewers:

7pm: Shep: +2% / Cooper: +7% / Hardball: -30% / Showbiz: +17% / Conan: +49%

8pm: O'Reilly: +9% / Zahn: -3% / Countdown: -1% / Grace: +239% / CNBC: +10%

9pm: H&C: +18% / King: -21% / MSNBC: 0% / Prime News: +36% / CNBC: -54%

10pm: Greta: +45% / NewsNight: -21% / Scarborough: -12% / Grace repeat: +97% / CNBC: -40%

Media Bistro

I like numbers. But, the problem with numbers is that you're not giving context. Yeah, he's up 9%, but that's only because he was doing terrible last june.

Again, at his peak, O'Reilly was pulling in 3.5 million viewers. He lost a million viewers that are not coming back.

So, in conclusion, you were right and I was wrong, Bill O'Reilly is actually doing much worse overall than I had previously thought.

The media are controlled by the Z boys. Get in touch with reality, y'all!

Originally posted by curme
FOX gets high ratings, because it's viewers use that as their only source of news. They just stare and nod approvingly, listening to what they believe being reaffirmed.

As a Fox viewer I need to comment. I may get the majority of my news from Fox News (tv and internet) but I balance it with the local paper, the drudge report, the WSJ, etc. I am sceptical of all news sources and often try and read between the lines of what they are saying versus what is the truth. Please remember that Fox News is both news and commentary. The vast majority of the evening program is commentary and presents the host views. I enjoy that. I can split between news and commentary.

Also I lost confidence in O'Reilly once his intern scandal broke. Something scummy about him. And yes a person's morals are important to how I view them professionally.

And yes I did vote for Bush. But that does not blind me to the truth.

Originally posted by brimstone735

Originally posted by jsobecky
It may make you feel better inside, may make you feel that you are part of some intellectual elite, to categorize the average American as "tent house revivalists", but you're only fooling yourself. Attitudes such as yours are why the liberals have gotten their lunch eaten in the last ten years of elections.

Yes, yes. Blah, blah, blah. Liberals are bad and I'm an intellectual elitist.
Snoozefest, find some new material. I'm bored with the old stuff.
Would wrestling fans be considered average americans?

I'd consider them average. Same as I conside NASCAR fans average. Same as I consider ivory-college professors average.

You're taking this much too personal, and you're trying to cause a rift between what you consider as your equals and those you look down your nose at. You're sad.

More people get their news from the big three on a night basis. They're the average americans.

You've got to be kidding.

I'd like to hear your definition of mainstream.

Mainstream is the average american who watches the big three over FOX news by a ten to one ratio.

Your math is wrong.
From Drudge today:
FLASH: 'GRETA' TOP OF CABLE NEWS RACE
NITE OF TUES, JULY 27, 2005

FOXNEWS GRETA 2,997,000 [VIEWERS]
FOXNEWS O'REILLY 2,705,000
FOXNEWS HANNITY/COMES 2,415,000
CNN LARRY KING 765,000
CNNHN NANCY GRACE 752,000
CNN PAULA ZAHN 623,000
CNN AARON BROWN 577,000
MSNBC SCARBOROUGH 462,000
MSNBC OLBERMANN 318,000
MSNBC HARDBALL 192,000
MSNBC TUCKER 178,000


Damn right I got the numbers wrong, I gave FOX an extra 500,000 viewers.
You might be a little misguided, but these aren't individual viewers who are replaced like a revolving door after every televised hour. You can't just add them all up, based on each individual show.[/quote

You gave Fox 3.5 - 4 million viewers; they are closer to 8 million.

Greta is doing fantastic, actually drawing in casual viewers who wouldn't normally watch FOX news. But, her numbers will drop once the Aruba case is solved, settled, or people get bored with it.

I like Greta; I can say that without losing my religion. I don't know what your fetish is with O'Reilly, but this thread is not about him specifically, yet you continue to trash him.

FOX news has hit the glass ceiling of viewership potential, which also means they've hit the glass ceiling of profit potential.

An envious position, wouldn't you say?

There are not an unlimited number of conservative cable news viewers. FOX has hit the watershed, and they've exhausted all avenues of potential recruitment. Now they have to fight to retain that maximum number of viewers from being poached by MSNBC.

It's not like if they lose a million viewers, they can just look elsewhere for more viewers. It doesn't work that way. If FOX loses them, they're gone, and it will take ten times more work to get them back.

Two points where you are wrong: all of their viewers dont't have to be conservative; they draw from all over the spectrum, including people who don't hold any particular political philosophy.

Second, their market is growing. In Canada, for instance.