What the Terrorists Want

Maybe all they want is to sleep peacefully in their beds without fear of threat of invasion and foreign-imposed martial-law, earn a fair wage to support their children and families through fair-trade..not have their hands tied through corporate rape-and-pilliage of services and resources by the IMF and World Bank, not have to fear closed western minds and persecution of their faith and ideology whether through the press or the barrel of a gun...not just 'Islamic extremism', but the Islamic culture and faith as a whole has been around for millenia before the USA ever became a nation.

If anything, as a NEWCOMER nation the US should learn to respect it's ELDER civilisations...this is nothing more than empty rhetoric on behalf of the US, and ignorance of diplomacy and foreign policy to justify empirical ambition..."as ye sow, so shall ye reap"

Originally posted by skippytjc
Terrorism will never go away, and the USA is not the reason for terrorism Why will terrorism never go away? Because of what they REALLY want: An Islamic world governed by the “Shari’a”, or Islamic law.

Why don't they attack China first then? China already has many Muslims in it and it's very close to Muslim dominated countries. The US is alllllllll the way across the ocean but the extremists insist on attacking US and other Western powers especially Britain while mentioning nothing about China. What's with that eh? Shouldn't they start their world domination from their borders instead of hop all the way to the other side of the planet?

(Quote: Taishyou)
"Why don't they attack China first then? China already has many Muslims in it and it's very close to Muslim dominated countries. The US is alllllllll the way across the ocean but the extremists insist on attacking US and other Western powers.."

Hmm...maybe because the US has tried to impose it's corporate and military ambition against an oil-rich muslim world and the propping-up and arming of Israel. Although it would seem that the funding, arming, and training of some of their 'client-states' to fight their wars by proxy (Iraq..to fight against the Iranians and the support of Saddam to gain access to cheap oil, and the Mujaheddin/Taliban to fight against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan) has now been turned against them.



[edit on 8-8-2005 by timski]

Originally posted by skippytjc

Originally posted by curme

I find those parallels with Christianity. "Believe in me, or die!" That's what the Christian God says.

I dont dissagree with any of that. But my post is about Radical Islam. I like the Christians about as much as an impacted tooth, so dont get me started.

In the end, no matter what the USA or any nation does, terrorism isnt going aywhere as long as the rest of te Islamic faith stands idle.

Terrorism, is an effect - American(or western) imperialism has always been the cause. Leave them alone and they will leave you alone - don't leave them alone, and it is only natural that they won't leave you alone.

Sort of like that do unto others command.

Violence, begets violence. Involvement, begets involvement. You don't like them doing things to you, then you stop doing things to them. Stop buying their oil - and the problem is solved right then and there.

But there are SUV's to pay for, and a standard of living to upkeep and all that waste has to go somewhere so you guys can put it on some other backwater nation, and when that nation gets tired and fights back - just call them fanatics and no doubt some flag waver will beleive it.

It's the American way!!

I like buying their oil. I also like a little fight now and then
to keep the boredom down. Just think of all the jobs this
fighting creates. Then there is defense industry keeping
all munitions supplied. Busy hands are happy hands, I like
to say.

The United states imbues all of it's citizens with a level of greed, this is what drives them to get into there SUVs, fight traffic get stressed for an hour, and go to work so the cycle of greed and meaningless consumption can continue. Who ever is the greediest and has the most connections get on top. I for one recognize when I'm feeling greedy or commit an act which I later thought to be greedy, but americans are trained through their environment to constanly strive to consume more, because it's good for the local economy.

Good christians working in a munitions factory; Jesus is crying for sure. Do people not understand the meaning of "turn the other cheek"?. "But if you do that they'll kill you!" ofcourse. I'm just saying you have a better chance of getting killed going to work in your car than getting killed by terrorists.

There is news everyday about "terrorists" it's drilled into your brain through every form of media available. This is usually the reason why terrorists commit acts of terrorism, so they can advertise their ideology to like minded people. Eco-terrorism, Religious fanatics, Revolutionaries they simply want their beleifs conveyed to other people. So why don't you guys just stop supporting these Jihadists...

By an american saying "We should nuke mecca if they nuke us", well that just simply helps their cause. Why are conservatives always preaching retaliation instead of prevention? Because most of them are involved in businesses that profit from war, journalists, arms manufacturers, suppliers, even truckdrivers (aka civilian contractors aka halliburton) have thick pockets while, like major cee said, the focus of the jihadist attack is now concentrated on Iraqis who for many years have been suppressed by a puppet of the US government, why do they never speak of that? As a result the US has fought two wars and though they have corrected their mistake (sortof) they literally brought hell on Earth for these people whos only crime was living on a big patch of Texas Tea next to Iran.

So instead of mouthing off about what you feel like you want to do if there was another attack, for the sake of america, please fire neurons instead of bullets, and do so in a fashion which will uplift people, talk about illegal immigration (never addressed because Latinos are cheap labor), securing shipping and cargo (would sacrifice speed of product delivery aka bad business) , there are millions of other security issues that go overlooked for the sake of the profit of a few. Use your brain to benefit people not control them.



[edit on 13-8-2005 by OYG]

"What do (Islamiscist)terrorists want?" Interesting, they have much in common with "Neo"-Conservatives in that they seek to "save their societies from Western decadence." Again, I believe the BBC series
The Power of Nightmares is essential viewing. There is no monolithic, unified terrorist super-gang that has been presented as al Qaeda...

The program "Inside 9/11: War on America" was on the
National Geographic channel last night from 8:00 to 10:00 PM
on 8/22/2005.

This program confirmed the goal of Al Qaeda and their
strategy for the basic plan to bait the US into an
attack into Afghanistan. Various people were interviewed
that quoted Osama Bin Ladin confirming this strategy.
These people interviewed were mainly muslim associates
of Bin Ladin who had been pretty close to him at various
times. The program also detailed much of the
al Qaeda movements and the number of times the US
missed getting him. They gave a pretty good tracking of
most of the immediate terrorists involved and the time and
number of visits they had with Bin Ladin.

This program will probably be aired many more times, if
anyone is interested in seeing it.

Now not only have you had confirmation from the president,
but in a well documented program on the National Geographic
channel.


[edit on 22-8-2005 by MajorCee]

[edit on 23-8-2005 by MajorCee]

[edit on 23-8-2005 by MajorCee]

Actually, I have seen no proof that the true goal of the jihadists is Muslim control of the world. In fact, most of the countries in the middle east that we support -- ie. Saudi Arabia -- are well known for having that goal.

Bin Laden, however, has stated his goals and reasons clearly. None of them involve a Muslim dominated world. Rather, his goals entail a section of the world were Muslims can live without US interference. That section being the Middle East.

Originally posted by white4life420
Actually, I have seen no proof that the true goal of the jihadists is Muslim control of the world. In fact, most of the countries in the middle east that we support -- ie. Saudi Arabia -- are well known for having that goal.

Bin Laden, however, has stated his goals and reasons clearly. None of them involve a Muslim dominated world. Rather, his goals entail a section of the world were Muslims can live without US interference. That section being the Middle East.

The problem with all of the people who say "US influence is bad!!!" is that they generally aren't expressing the will of the people. The great thing about capitalism is that if nobody wants it, it dies away pretty quickly. Nobody has been forced (as far as I know) to eat at McDonalds. Nobody has been forced to buy Xbox's. Nobody has been forced to shop at Walmart. People do these things because they want to, and we should force them to stop because a few people who can't stand the idea of a Western world that is more powerful and influential than their own?

Also, remember that when we say Islamic extremists, we are talking about the people who kill film producers because they create films that portray the inequality of men and women in the muslim world (I believe this was in belgium, although I could be wrong. the extremist in this case killed two people, one of which was vincent van goh's great grandson). We are talking about the people who set off bombs in London.

In any case, extremists for any cause are bad news. Christian, Muslim, Green or Red, they all cause far more trouble than they are worth.

Originally posted by white4life420
Actually, I have seen no proof that the true goal of the jihadists is Muslim control of the world. In fact, most of the countries in the middle east that we support -- ie. Saudi Arabia -- are well known for having that goal.

Bin Laden, however, has stated his goals and reasons clearly. None of them involve a Muslim dominated world. Rather, his goals entail a section of the world were Muslims can live without US interference. That section being the Middle East.

u dont think Osama would know the worlds reaction if he says he want to conquer the world in the name of Islam? u think he is stupid enough to say he wants total annihalation of non-Muslims? maybe u need to look at all those countries being attack by Al Qaeda and groups linked to it. makes u wonder why. Osama didnt train about 100,000 followers and more in Afghanistan prior to 9/11 for nothing. why do u think he has another name for Al Qaida which is called the World Islamic Front.

u dont think Osama would know the worlds reaction if he says he want to conquer the world in the name of Islam? u think he is stupid enough to say he wants total annihalation of non-Muslims?

Yes, bin Laden and other radicals say and mean exactly that. They don't believe that actual annihilation of people, as opposed to governments and culture, is necessary, conversion is acceptable. But global Islamic Caliphate is their explicit ultimate goal. This is not a secret.

Originally posted by deltaboy

Originally posted by white4life420
Actually, I have seen no proof that the true goal of the jihadists is Muslim control of the world. In fact, most of the countries in the middle east that we support -- ie. Saudi Arabia -- are well known for having that goal.

Bin Laden, however, has stated his goals and reasons clearly. None of them involve a Muslim dominated world. Rather, his goals entail a section of the world were Muslims can live without US interference. That section being the Middle East.

u dont think Osama would know the worlds reaction if he says he want to conquer the world in the name of Islam? u think he is stupid enough to say he wants total annihalation of non-Muslims? maybe u need to look at all those countries being attack by Al Qaeda and groups linked to it. makes u wonder why. Osama didnt train about 100,000 followers and more in Afghanistan prior to 9/11 for nothing. why do u think he has another name for Al Qaida which is called the World Islamic Front.

You should read up more about bin Laden vs the red army. It might teach you some more about who he is and why he operates the way he does.

Originally posted by white4life420

You should read up more about bin Laden vs the red army. It might teach you some more about who he is and why he operates the way he does.

i read some of his "works" but maybe u like to read why he ordered the destruction of Budda statues? wat does that have to do with American troops in the ME eh? does the Budda statues for example relate American foreign policy? dis is now. not back during the Soviet Afghan war. Osama has a new agenda u know.

Originally posted by Passer By


Terrorism, is an effect - American(or western) imperialism has always been the cause. Leave them alone and they will leave you alone - don't leave them alone, and it is only natural that they won't leave you alone.

Sort of like that do unto others command.

Violence, begets violence. Involvement, begets involvement. You don't like them doing things to you, then you stop doing things to them. Stop buying their oil - and the problem is solved right then and there.

But there are SUV's to pay for, and a standard of living to upkeep and all that waste has to go somewhere so you guys can put it on some other backwater nation, and when that nation gets tired and fights back - just call them fanatics and no doubt some flag waver will beleive it.

It's the American way!!

Nope. You see, the USA is less than 300 years old, the Islamic movement is 1400 years old. Muhammad himself would be considered a terrorist today if he employed the same tactics he used back then to spread his religion.

In 632 Abu Bakr, sent by Muhammad before he died, went off to convert the world of Islam. He slaughtered thousands and thousands before his death a couple of years later. He was of course was suceeded by his nephew who continued the cause (Mmm...sounds alot loke imperialism huh?). Today, this kind of effort would be considered terrorism for sure.

You see Passer, you are simply wrong, how can the USA be responsible for something thats 1100 years older than it? Islam was out for world domination before the USA was even a dream. But somehow you and other have been tricked into thinking its the USA's fault.

Blind.

Originally posted by white4life420
You should read up more about bin Laden vs the red army. It might teach you some more about who he is and why he operates the way he does.

I think you are missing the most important part of bin Laden's
effort against the soviets and that was how it set him up to
believe he could pull off this reestablishment of the Caliphate.

From one of my previous posts I explained how the Russian
experience inspired and enfluenced bin Laden. Here is
a copy of that text:

===================================
On top of that you have to get into their minds.
To Al Qaeda this makes perfect sense. Al Qaeda
was born out of the remnants of the Mujahadeen
in Afghanistan. Osama was there with them and
instrumental in the set up of the taliban government.
They fought the Russians for 10 years and defeated
a super power with God's help. They did because
God was on their side, and God wanted them to
prevail on earth. They believe this. Now it makes
perfect sense to them that they can reestablish
the greater glory of God and his Islamic Caliphate
because God has shown them the way, in their
defeat of the Super Power of the USSR. They have
the blue print right at their finger tips, all they
have to do is follow God's will. Would God have
let this rag tag bunch defeat Russia if it was
not his will? Go back and read my post about Al
Qaeda and what their scenario was for Afghanistan.
See what they envisioned for how the war would
progress and see how it meshed perfectly with
their previous success against Russia. Do you
see the logic to it, at least in their minds?
===============================

So when you sight Osama's past experience with
the Russians, you might also consider how it neatly
fits in with his present day scheme. It actually
seduced him to believe he can do this.

Well, if we are going to start quoting then I will forward you to my post:

Why the US is responsible

You could bet that Osama would not be attacking America if we didn't infringe on everyday Muslim life. Osama has never had a plan to take over the world. That's asinine.

Once again, bin Laden has been very clear with why he is calling for jihad against us. In fact, he had given us plenty of warning to expect it coming. The question becomes not whether or not bin Laden's reasons are correct, but rather what can we do to stop him.


-----------------


"Persian Gulf oil and the lack of serious US alternative-energy development are at the core of the bin Laden issue. For cheap, easily accessible oi, Washington and the West have supported the Muslim tyrannies bin Laden and other Islamists seek to destroy. There can be no other reason for backing Saudi Arabia, a regime that, since its founding, has deliberately fostered an Islamic Ideology, whose goals -- unlike bin Laden's -- can only be met by annihilating all non-Muslims."

[edit on 23-8-2005 by white4life420]

maybe u wonder why his second in command wrote a book talkin about the threat of Democracy? or how about Osama who created Al Qaida just after Soviet withdraw and before Saddam invaded Kuwait which led to the American intervention. wats the reason for creating this organization even wen the war was over in Afghanistan i wonder?

btw u still havent answered about Budda statues or targeting Shiites. Shiites arent Americans and they dont direct America's foreign policy either. the Al Qaida is more like the KKK.

[edit on 23-8-2005 by deltaboy]

You could bet that Osama would not be attacking America if we didn't infringe on everyday Muslim life. Osama has never had a plan to take over the world. That's asinine.

You might be right in saying that Osama would not be attacking us if
we did not infringe on everyday muslim life. If he could rule everyday
muslim life then he quite possibly would be happy. Maybe he does have
the more limited objective of just running the muslim world. No one knows
for sure. On the other hand, if he just wants to run everyday Muslim life, he
has a pretty big job ahead of him. His biggest problem is going to be that
of convincing the Muslims that he should be defining their goals, beliefs,
and aspirations. That in itself, is going be more than a full time job
when you consider how much these factions hate each other. He was
kicked out of his own country, Saudi Arabia, because they did not want
him infringing on their everyday Muslim life. Saudi has had a deal with
the US since about 1946 when oil was discovered there. The deal
was that the US would keep the bullies off their back if they would
sell us the oil. They made the deal. Osama apparently does not like
that deal and he would rather protect Saudi and dictate where the
oil is sold. He was not able to sell his deal to the Saudis. He was not
able to dictate everyday Muslim life in his home country, Saudi. For some
reason they liked having the US to keep the bullies off their back and
they kicked Osama out. He has his infringement on every day muslim
life and we have ours. Ours was a deal agreed to. His is a deal that he
is putting forth at the barrel of a gun. He had his Muslim utopia in
Afghanistan. This was a country defined exactly how Osama wanted
it. The US did not interfer. Osama was not happy with this. He had
to expand his influence on everyday Muslim life even though he had
his perfect country at his finger tips. He still tried to put forth
his infringment on the US and Saudi of how he thought
things should be done. He is also putting forth his effort to run
everyday Muslim life in Iraq at present. The people opposing him
most are Muslims. His jihadists are killing 20 times as many Muslims
as he is killing Americans. Who is trying to decide everyday Muslim
life here. No matter how many Iraqis the jihadists kill ever more
volunteer to fight them. If enough people like you are happy with
Osama's vision then he will succeed. On the other hand if enough people
like me, Bush, Saudi, the Shia and Kurds of Iraq, Iran, and Pakistan
oppose your idea then prepare yourself for an Osama defeat.
Osama isn't God, no matter what he says, and a good many people
are there to oppose him. I really don't understand how you can
completey give him the right to define everyday Muslim life when
so many Muslims have not abdicated that privledge to him and are
in fact fighting their butts off to defeat him. Its really not your choice
to give Osama the right to define everyday life of Muslims. Many
Muslims will actively oppose your idea to do that. More importantly
many others like the US Army, US navy, USAF, and marines are
going to stand in your way.

Say goodbye to Osama dictating everyday Muslim life. It is not
going to happen. It really is not a matter that the US is trying
to dictate everyday Muslim life. Its a matter that we are not
going to let Osama do it, and a good many Muslims are siding
with us not to let that happen. Have you noticed the raids
by Saudi police the last week there where they have captured
and killed Al Qaeda members. Apparently they have not been
sold on Osama dictating everyday Muslim life throughout the
world either. If you really support them, perhaps you should
go join the fight. They can use all the help they can get. Strap
on some dynamite and go for it.




[edit on 23-8-2005 by MajorCee]

1) Bin Laden has no intention of ruling the Muslims.

2) The Saudi's, technically, are a greater enemy than bin Laden. Mainly because their goal is to destroy all non-muslims.

3) I am not giving the right to any person to "dictate" any Muslim. I am merely stating why he is attacking us, and why his call for jihad is so effective.