Israeli Bus Bombing

A Palestinian mass-murderer blows himself up on a bus filled with people returning from a religious retreat at the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem. At least 20 people are killed, including 4 children. Islamic Jihad immediately claims responsibility, although they claim that this act is not meant to derail the peace process.

So where are you Cold Anger? No insightful websites to point to with alternate theories? No messages of justification? No "the Moussad must have done it" posts? No Jewish conspiricies?

Explain this one away.

p.s. If you wonder why the Moussad is so cold, cruel and effective when it comes to tracking down and eliminating terrorists - don't.

Originally posted by Pyros
A Palestinian mass-murderer blows himself up on a bus filled with people returning from a religious retreat at the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem. At least 20 people are killed, including 4 children. Islamic Jihad immediately claims responsibility, although they claim that this act is not meant to derail the peace process.

So where are you Cold Anger? No insightful websites to point to with alternate theories? No messages of justification? No "the Moussad must have done it" posts? No Jewish conspiricies?

Explain this one away.

p.s. If you wonder why the Moussad is so cold, cruel and effective when it comes to tracking down and eliminating terrorists - don't.

First i do not feel happy when babies, kids, and innocent people dies like that, i do not agree with it.
The second is tell you (again and again and again) that they don�t do things because of nothing, of course if u see in the news all the time just the suicide bombs, you are going to think that palestinians are the bad ones, but if the Media was talking about what happens DAILY in PALESTINE, maybe people would shut the hell up and see all the problem, but the main thing here, is that Palestinians do no have any control over any media Corp or Media News Corp, therefore nobody knows nothing about what IDF does, Massacres, Ethnick Cleaning, kick people out of their homes and destroyed, let nobody pass to the hospitals and block the ways to it. Walls of 600 km and 8 m long....

And not just that just take a look at this:

Los Angeles, Alta California -1/14/2002 - (ACN) Journalists, if they write for the mainstream media in the United States, Mexico, Canada or in most other major countries in the world, can not write a pro-Palestinian article and have it published. This was the recent unfortunate experience of well-known columnist for the Canadian dailies Regina Leader-Post and the Saskatoon Star Phoenix. Well respected columnist Doug Cuthand wrote an essay last week sympathetic to the plight of Palestinians in Israel but now his column has been axed by editors at both Southam newspapers, part of a large chain controlled by the Jewish Asper family of Winnipeg, Canada through its media giant, CanWest Global Communications.

The killing of the column has added fuel to claims by critics that the Asper family is seeking to "silence" certain independently thinking journalists on the staff of its 14 major dailies across Canada. Doug Cuthand is now afraid of what may happen next. Cuthand has not been given a reason why the column was axed, but it was his first-ever killed in 10 years of writing for the Asper family owned papers.

"My belief is that what I wrote went against the corporate policy of CanWest," Cuthand said in an interview. "Of course I'm going to carry on and continue writing. But it will never be the same ... I'll always be looking over my shoulder, " he added.

According to sources in Canada, the Star Phoenix editor Steve Gibb declined to comment when reached at his Saskatoon office yesterday and editor Leader-Post Janice Dockham didn't return repeated calls to her office. Murdoch Davis, editor-in-chief of Southam News, said it was a local decision to kill Cutland's column but many journalists, who have since quit, say that it was the decision of the Asper family who hold an extremist position in defense of Israel. The Aspers, led by patriarch Izzy Asper, also own the National Post, more than 120 smaller newspapers, Global Television and CanWest Global Communications Corporation. - an international media company with operations in several countries

Like many other media magnates, Izzy Asper is a Diaspora Jew. Both his grandmother, Golda Zwet (nee Barsky) and his grandfather, Ben-Zion Zwet, an orthodox Rabbi, were born in the Ukraine in 1882 and 1879 respectively. His grandfather arrived in Winnipeg in 1913 alone to establish a base for his wife and children, who would follow. The Great War and the Russian Revolution interrupted these plans but after the War, he traveled to Europe in 1919 where Golda had been raising her young family, including Izzy Asper's mother Cecilia. The family finally arrived in Winnipeg in 1921and accompanying them was Leon Ausereper (Asper), his mother's fianc� at the time. Leon Ausereper (Asper)was stopped at the Belgium border, and remained there for five more years, arriving in Winnipeg in 1923. He married Izzy's mother on August 15, 1924. The Asper media moguls have solid Zionist credentials. In 1993, Izzy Asper won the greatly coveted B'nai B'irth International Award of Merit.

The unfortunate experience of columnist Doug Cuthand of Canada is well known by counterparts in the United States and Mexico.There is a lot of fear among many U.S. and Mexican journalists to write any article that questions the racist Zionist policies of Israel against the Palestinians. Many have families to support and they do not want to lose their jobs. Our publisher, Hector Carreon, recently had an experience that indicates that the same fear exists in Mexico. Mr. Carreon had a radio interview on the Jeff Rense Talk Show concerning the attempted terrorist attack on the Mexican Congress by two Israelis, one a retired MOSSAD colonel and had lined up a journalist from the Mexico City daily "Uno Mas Uno". When this particular journalist found out what the topic of the radio interview was going to be about, he got cold feet and cancelled.

Now that there is almost total domination of the world mainstream media by one group with a specific interest, can we really say that there is "Freedom of the Press"? These global media conglomerates have gone further to subjugate free thinking. Not only do they put the screws on journalists under their employment, but they are also going after small independent news services. Our readership is well acquainted with the varied methods that have been employed to silence us. The most recent one has been the use of a Los Angeles weekly tabloid to attack our publisher Hector Carreon. The article quotes Ms. Tamar Galatzan of the ADL of B'nai B'rith (Sons of the Covenant), a well known U.S. branch of the Israeli MOSSAD, as making a statement that should chill the spines of every freedom loving American. Her statement also shows that there is a very well orchestrated and coordinated movement around the world that is working in union. The Canadian media mogul Izzy Asper won the coveted B'nai B'irth International Award of Merit and Tamar Galatzan of the ADL of B'nai B'rith was quoted, in the last sentence of the tabloid's article, as saying, concerning our publisher, "We're going to keep an eye on him."

Anyway i supose u will reply that Israel does all these because they are defending themselves of the "suicide bombers" , but again u will fall in the trap, because like this is an endless disscussion, if u don�t get the concept of the middle east yet then leave it...

"A Palestinian mass-murderer "..this is known? It has been irrefutably demonstrated? The last time the agents of Estragon checked, the Israelis were "exploring the possibility" that whoever the perpetrator was may have been dressed as an Orthodox Jew. So, they don't know what he looked like but they know his nationality.
And now Israel isn't giving Jericho back: well it's obvious that that is a development that all Palestinians welcome.
"Very odd" is the phrase.

It's commonly known that the Palestinian Homicide Bombers dress as Hasidic Jews when setting off their tools of destruction so that no one suspects anything when they lurk around bus stations waiting for their opportunities. Please don't act like this is some new fangled theory, it doesn't do much for your credibility.

After thousands of Palestinian initiated bombings I think it odd that you can be surprised that Israel knows the nationality of the bomber. Additionally, the Palestinian terror groups themselves have issued statements taking credit for it. So let's not make it like Israel is playing the blame game on some innocent Palestinian folks. They said they did it themselves, no one else had to.

Giving Jericho back? Yeah estragon, blow up my car and that will do a great job of convincing me to be nicer to you How can you expect them to make more concessions after a bunch of babykillers go to work again unchecked by the "palestinian authority" as always.

[Edited on 8-20-2003 by Djarums]

there has been over 107 attacks on israel since the new peace talks have started. to the victem's horror, american and world media has reported about 5 of them. who's in control of the media now?

Originally posted by CoLD aNGeR

First i do not feel happy when babies, kids, and innocent people dies like that, i do not agree with it.

I can see you're all broken up about it. It must take a lot of strength to not let dead children get in the way of your mission in life: disseminating anti-Jewish propaganda.

Unbelievable!

Originally posted by CoLD aNGeR
The second is tell you (again and again and again) that they don�t do things because of nothing...

No, not for nothing. They do it to stop peace negotiations.

If they want peace, if they want another Palestinian-Arab homeland, if they want a life free of checkpoints and curfews, if they want their children to grow up without wondering which of them will be sacrificed as another human bomb, then all they have to do, all they have ever had to do for the past 55 years is stop killing Jews long enough to sit down at a table and work out the details.

All their reasonable demands; land, self-government, reparations...everything except the destruction of Israel can be had. All that needs to be done if for enough of the Palestinian-Arab people to decide that these things are more important than killing Jews.

Originally posted by CoLD aNGeR
Palestinians do no have any control over any media Corp or Media News Corp, therefore nobody knows nothing about what IDF does, Massacres, Ethnick Cleaning, kick people out of their homes and destroyed, let nobody pass to the hospitals and block the ways to it. Walls of 600 km and 8 m long....

Israel is the most scrutinized nation that ever was. They haven�t done anything in 55 years that wasn't remarked on and criticized in the world press.

Originally posted by CoLD aNGeR
And not just that just take a look at this:

Los Angeles, Alta California -1/14/2002 - (ACN)

Okay, let's take a look at that. Let me show everybody where that bi-line comes from:

aztlan.net...

You picked the biggest hate-mongers there are as your source material. Why did you do that? You claim not to be anti-Semitic, that you only hate Zionism for its racism and nationalism. It puzzles me then that for your source material you go to the most racist, nationalistic sources there are.

Ernesto Cienfuegos and Hector Carreon, editor and publisher.

When I say these guys are racists, I don�t just mean anti-Jewish racists. They are anti-everything that�s not Chicano racist. The very word Aztlan comes from the idea that Chicanos should reclaim the old Aztec Empire. This would include all of Mexico, plus the states of California, Colorado, Arizona, Texas, Utah and New Mexico. Check out these following websites to find out what they�re all about:

www.hispanicvista.com...

www.mayorno.com...

www.sonorannews.com...

www.lawatchdog.com...

The irony here is that the issue with Doug Cuthand is a real issue. It was a big deal last year. People that follow freedom of the press issues have heard of it. There were protests and boycots, journalistic unions got involved, and CanWest took a lot of heat for it. You could have made you case with legit sources. That you chose instead to rely on this racist newsletter says everything about who you are and what your motives are.

Mycroft's comment on the purpose of the bombings is very true. As said earlier israel had recently agreed to release some MURDERERS it had captured. Israel had also agreed to turn over two towns to full Palestinian Authority control. And once again the savages of Hamas and Islamic Jihad do something like this. Israel can not negotiate in good faith if every time some progress is about to be made a group of idiots ruins it. And the clincher here is that the PA does nothing to control it. When will people like CA learn that part of the equation. Hamas, Islamic Jihad etc etc... are all in connection with the PA itself. This is obvious. If they were not, don't you think Arafat's 1,000 time repeated promise to crack down on them and Abbas' 1,000 time repeated promise to crack down on them would have accomplished something?

The answer is that the derailment of the peace process is what they want. The simple minded observer believes that the PA wants control of towns, and villages, and will make peace with just Gaza and the West Bank. The educated observer, one who has firsthand knowledge of the situation, or one who gives enough of a damn to do REAL research knows the truth. As every Palestinian child is taught in their schoolbooks to this day "We shall not rest until the Israelis are driven into the sea."

This isn't extremism, sadly this is their Mainstream.

"It's commonly known that the Palestinian Homicide Bombers dress as Hasidic Jews when setting off their tools of destruction so that no one suspects anything when they lurk around bus stations waiting for their opportunities."
Is it? Among whom? Do they dress like Hasidim with bombs attached? Do they know Hebrew fluently? Does this not excite suspicion?
It's commonly known that mice eat cheese but that doesn't prove who stole the Cheddar.
And these desperadoes haven't worked out that it's commonly known that Hasidim garb is supicious: gosh -how dim they are -maybe they should disguise themselves as art students.
And as we asked at first "this is known"; that means things like verifiable facts or, at least, persuasive evidence?
And as we suggetsed: it isn't.

And this is "political" or "scandal"? There are threads on this based on "My Second Reading Book" and higher, in War on T -cyber-chums who have unwittingly strayed into this surf and spam pygmy-drivel.

[Edited on 21-8-2003 by Estragon]

As I suggested, it is well known.

I will link in support of this, and I will one-up most of you by not linking to clearly biased sites like CA does. I will link to ones considered credible by most people.

Fox News

In case the article doesn't draw your interest for long, I will copy one important line from it.

"Bombers, some disguised as Orthodox Jews or Israeli soldiers, have waged 93 suicide attacks, killing 357 bystanders, since the violence erupted in September 2000."

CNN

And again I will show the main point in case some folks don't want to read the whole thing.

"At about 5:30 p.m., (10:30 a.m. EDT), a suicide bomber dressed as an ultra Orthodox Jew detonated a device on a bus in central Jerusalem, killing himself and 16 others during evening rush hour, Israeli authorities said. Along with the 16 people killed, another 70 were injured, seven seriously, Israeli hospital officials said. "

Telegraph

Here's the main point of that one.

"The wave of attacks began again at first light yesterday, the first day of the Jewish working week, when a man identified by his family as 19-year-old Bassem Jamil Tarkrouri, a Hamas supporter, boarded a bus wearing the skullcap and prayer shawl of an Orthodox Jew.

He detonated the explosives concealed under the white shawl, killing seven passengers."

Washington Times

Here's what it says:

"Sunday's attacks in Jerusalem killed seven people and wounded 20. Shortly before 6 a.m., the bomber, dressed as an observant Jew, boarded a bus heading toward central Jerusalem. He blew himself up in the front of the bus, police said."

And i will end with this one...

ISLAMONLINE.NET


The quote is:

"Security forces in the settlement's central square noticed a man dressed as a religious Jew, who was acting strangely, and approached him.

The man fled and shortly afterwards detonated his explosives, the radio said."

My friend Estragon, I am disappointed that you dispute such a commonly known fact. Like I said before, and like I proved in this post, it is a well known fact that terrorists disguise themselves as orthodox jews so they can blend in, get close to their targets and murder people. I have quoted 3 American sources (CNN, FoxNews, and the Washington Times) A british source (the Telegraph), and EVEN A MUSLIM SOURCE (islamonline.net). All of these sources have quoted this tactic in their articles. Can you please explain to me how you can logically state that I am incorrect for calling this a well known tactic employed by Palestinian terrorists? I am sorry my friend but you are wrong.

They put on their clothes. Many arabs speak hebrew. You would know this if you went to the Israel. As well as many Israelis speak Arabic. Not a surprise to those who have actually been to the middle east. Yes, they put the bombs underneath the prayer shawls. This was quoted in nearly all the sources. I have not said anything unsubstantiated and I have provided the verifiable facts and persuasive evidence as you suggested.

Spreading anti-Semitism is so easy. The internet is filled with hate web-sites; the lies are available and pre-packaged to anyone who wants them. Cut and paste or just paraphrase what someone else said. Some lies are just made up, others have some factual basis but are twisted, others are really sophisticated pieces of work.

Refuting the lies takes more effort. You have to do research, you have to know history, and you have to be willing to put in the time.

And even in doing so, there is a danger. Most of the hate-mongers go away quickly once they know they're conversing with someone who knows the subject. Others are more dangerous. They hunger for the debate because the debate itself provides a platform, and that so much of the population is lazy enough to assume both sides have a point without actually considering what those points are.

Djarums, thank you for sharing your experiences. I've never been to Israel or anywhere in the Middle East. I have Arabic relatives and Jewish relatives, so maybe that helps me understand these cultures a little better that I would from just reading the news, but it's still not the same as going there. Thank you also for taking the time to help others understand.

Estragon, I don't know what experiences you've had, what has formed your opinions but I will say this: Anyone can make suggestions about what might have happened. Anyone can plant suspicions. But unless there is some factual basis for your guesses and suspicions then it's really nothing more than the product of your imagination. If you make a choice to imagine evil, then it's your choice to do so.