POLITICS: Shinnecock Indians lay Claim to Valuable NY Land

Originally posted by Nygdan
Ithink that they can be forgiven for saying New York State, when infact the orignal authority would've been New York Colony.

Really New York Colony??? Are you sure about that

Here's a hint; they stated New York was aware of them for 400 years and this is 2005 correct? New York was not even a colony until 1664. I assume you are not aware of that. Like I said they better get new writers; or better yet historians that can count

[edit on 6/16/2005 by shots]

I was not taking a shot at you shots. I was being sarcastic about the indians learning from the white man. The white man lied stole from the indians any way that they could. The 400 years was a lie or a slip up and getting whites drunk and taking there money is the same as the whites getting indians drunk and taking there land.

Frequent and bloody wars, in which the whites were not always the aggressors, unavoidably ensued. European policy, numbers, and skill, prevailed. As the white population advanced, that of the Indians necessarily receded. The country in the immediate neighbourhood of agriculturists became unfit for them. The game fled into thicker and more unbroken forests, and the Indians followed. The soil, to which the crown originally claimed title, being no longer occupied by its ancient inhabitants, was parcelled out according to the will of the sovereign power, and taken possession of by persons who claimed immediately from the crown, or mediately, through its grantees or deputies.

That law which regulates, and ought to regulate in general, the relations between the conqueror and conquered, was incapable of application to a people under such circumstances. The resort to some new and different rule, better adapted to the actual state of things, was unavoidable. Every rule which can be suggested will be found to be attended with great difficulty.

However extravagant the pretension of converting the discovery of an inhabited country into conquest may appear; if the principle has been asserted in the first instance, and afterwards sustained; if a country has been acquired and held under it; if the property of the great mass of the community originates in it, it becomes the law of the land, and cannot be questioned.

Johnson v. M'Intosh, 21 U.S. 543, 590-91 (1823)

A quote from Justice Marshall's seminal Supreme Court opinion. Thought it was relevant here, at least as a little background.

Frankly, a casino in Hampton Bays would suck, big time. The last thing that area needs is yet even more traffic on Route 23. I feel for the Native Americans, but put things in perspective. A race of people was nearly exterminated, and building a casino is the only way they can improve their state of poverty? I don't question their logic, or blame them for wanting the casino. I just feel the totality of the situation makes the casino issue insignificant to the point where discussing it in reference to American history seem almost a sick joke.

What the Shinnecock Indians need is education and jobs. Can the United States offer them no better alternative than a state of affairs in which they have to build a casino? What other options are available to them to improve their lot? This is the question the Shinnecock, New York State, and the federal government need to be spending energy to address.

-koji K.

[edit on 16-6-2005 by koji_K]

In one of life's little catch-22's, one way the US government could begin to improve the situation of the Shinnecock tribe is to grant them Federal recognition. It wouldn't solve all the problems but then they could apply for business development grants and there are scholarships available for students, along with some other nice things. And not to be discounted, this gives them a government to government negotiating position in the future.

The problem with granting them Federal recognition is then they can build a casino, from what I understand.

Here's a hint; they stated New York was aware of them for 400 years and this is 2005 correct? New York was not even a colony until 1664. I assume you are not aware of that. Like I said they better get new writers; or better yet historians that can count

"New York" was a colony well before 1664 (a good year for beer ), it was just called New Amsterdam before the British took it over. It was in fact founded in 1626.

The settlement of New Amsterdam followed the explorations of Henry Hudson for the Dutch (approx. 100 years after Cabot explored the coast from Nova Scotia to Virginia for the British), and the subsequent purchase by Peter Minuit of Manhattan Island in 1626.

Owned and run by the West India Company, the young colony was protected by paid soldiers. The company also paid farmers and tradesmen to come work in and for the colony. The Dutch, being most interested in making a return on their monetary investments, supported religious freedom as well as open trade. By 1630, the population numbered about 270. Of these, only about half were Dutch, since settlers from among the Belgian (Walloons) and French Huguenots, as well as English, were welcomed.

Link

Originally posted by stumason



"New York" was a colony well before 1664 (a good year for beer

), it was just called New Amsterdam before the British took it over. It was in fact founded in 1626.

Sure it was, but then it was a Dutch colony and they called it New Amsterdam not New York. Therefore their writers were still wrong, they did not state New Amsterdam recognized them, they stated New York recognized them and as we know New York was not founded until years later.

-koji K says What the Shinnecock Indians need is education and jobs. Can the United States offer them no better alternative than a state of affairs in which they have to build a casino? What other options are available to them to improve their lot? This is the question the Shinnecock, New York State, and the federal government need to be spending energy to address.

Ok I have to jump in here -- I don't think people realize that this is a small community except in summer when it grows big time -- but the Shinnecocks don' t lack for things. They hold the same jobs as everyone else -- they are nurses, work for town hall, and village hall, work on the water, work for utilities, for the golf clubs, for the government, in the post office etc. they get the same salaries and benefits as everyone else. They go to the same schools and are able to get the same scholarships and then there are scholarships that are offered to them thru the government that I couldn't get. (which I don't begrudge them at all but trying to put this into perspective.) They are in our fire department on our ambulance squads etc. They are a part of our community in all aspects.

Yes they have a health care facility and a senior citizen center on their land -- but understand also they are no further from a doctor or a senior center than I am so while it is great that they have them there it isn't because they can't get to another one.

Sorry to go off on you -- but the fact that they are being portrayed as impoverished and don't have good jobs or education makes me nuts.



edit for fumble fingers



[edit on 17-6-2005 by justme1640]

How Wonderful the Museum looks. My heart goes out to you for the suffering of genocide we practiced on you wonderful folks. The magnitude of Shame we feel about what has occurred to the Indian Nations can never be repaired. I weep for the injustice you suffered. There has never been a crueler race than the Whites. Before there was the Jewish Holocaust there was the Indian Holocaust. Shame on us.

[edit on 14-8-2007 by efields]

I hope they win