The Greatest conspiracy in Religion is .....

“What you are looking for is what is looking”
--St. Frances of Assisi--

My purpose in this thread is the same purpose we all have. To learn what I don’t know, and teach that which I do know. Walk your path, ask questions, and seek answers. Embark on a journey to the center of your consciousness, strive to understand yourself, and everything else may very well fall into place.

The Greatest falseshood offered to you by religion is that GOD is a seperate entity from you. That is the ultimate blaspheme. GOD by the very definition of GOD is omnipotent. GOD must know all things. He knows yourself better than you know yourself. He is aware of every consciousness. And since GOD is aware of every consciousness, he is here. If you define consciousness as something that can interprit its environment and react/alter its environment, then my individual cells are consciousnesses. I'm created in "his" (I use that word loosely) image, and I am a collection of cosciousnesses, perhaps there is a message there. GOD knew Abel was struck down because abel's blood called out to GOD. I could go on, but I do want your input on this thought as well.

I crave your input.
I thank you in advance for your contribution to this thread.

hi Esoteric....

Are you going on about ''New Age ''stuff?

The ''I'' is in me.......all that talk about being one with God?

what has Francess of Assisi got to do with anything?
dont understand what your getting at?

helen....

It sounds like you're a Unitarian. Personally, I no longer think I am God. I did in high school and in my early 20s, but there have been way too many signs in my life that show that I am absloutly not God. God is an awesome being, and I am not. I fail. Constantly. I'm not the person I'd like to be. And the faith I follow has an incredible ability to change who I am into someone worth allowing to live, I hope.

The biggest difference I've noticed between Christianity and Humanism is that Christians are trying to ever improve themselves. To be the person that Christ set an example of being. While many people scoff at this, say it's a crutch, that we are afraid to be ourselves, etc., they tend not to say those things when a Christian pulls over to help someone with a flat tire or broken down car, when they go out of their way to help someone out in financial need, and when they're willing to lend an ear to someone who just needs to get a ton of life's garbage off of their chest.

Unitarians, in my experience, are comfortable with who they are. That may sound good on the surface, but the result of it is there's no driving will or need to improve themselves. While some may pull over to help, others wouldn't, and there's no reason to do so unless you feel like it. Selflessness is not an issue. Plus, talking with a very close friend who is a hard core unitarian, there isn't that joy that Christians have, generally.

Even suffering through the worst of circumstances, if you were to interview a Unitarian and a Christian, you'd get some drastically different responses. In Christianity, we believe there is a higher purpose to life than ourselves. I have been through the...feces in life, and, in my darkest hour, am praising God for his goodness and justice. Why? Because I see myself growing as a result and also becoming a better person. Someone who is closer to whom I want to be. The comments and joy you hear about from Christians facing insurmountable odds in life is legit, it's not just lip service. However, when you believe you're God, how can trials and tribulation be good? How can your death be good? Why should you be happy when you're in pain due to cancer that is eating away your body?

Christianity is the best mistake I ever made (that'll make sense in a few days).

Oh, and to all of you scoffers to the comments I just made who are about to point out individuals who don't act the way I just described, I'm not talking about the fringe radical angry folks. I'm talking about your housewife Christians. Your paramedic Christians (A LOT more than you might expect, and many didn't start out being so until they were working the firehouse for a few years and saw some of the uber bizzare krump that take place inside of those white trucks). Your day to day Christians. Not the politicians who use Christianity to promote their agenda, or even the Christians who use their faith to promote politics. Anyway, I need to go to bed. G'nite.

I don't believe I'm GOD, but I don't believe GOD can be GOD if GOD is not omnipotent. For GOD to be omnipotent, a portion of GOD must be within us. I may not be fully conscious enough to fully comprehend what the concept of GOD truly means. But, I know GOD must be within us to be what GOD is suppose to be. If St. Frances of Assisi can't make that point for you ......

Do you like Christianity?
“If those who lead you say to you, “See, the Kingdom is in the sky,” then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, “It is in the sea,” then the fish will precede you. Rather, the Kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you will dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty.”
--Yehoshua Ben Yosef (AKA: Jesus)-- (All the sayings of Jesus gathered from ancient sources and compiled into a single volume for the first time. Compiled by Ricky Alan Mayotte) From “The Complete Jesus”. (Page 71)

Or perhaps you'd prefer Confucousism
“To put the world in order, we must first put the nation in order; to put the nation in order, we must first put the family in order; to put the family in order, we must cultivate our personal life; and to cultivate our personal life, we must first set our hearts right.”
--Confucius--

Or perhaps Science?:
“All matter originates and exists only by virtue of force …. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.”
--Max Planck, Nobel Prize-winning Father of Quantum Theory--

Or the world of scholars?:
“What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters to what lies within us.”
--Ralph Waldo Emerson--

“Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.”
--Carl Gustav Jung--


They all seem to have one underlying message .....
“Know thyself”
--Socrates--

“The spirit down here in man and the spirit up there in the sun, in reality are only one spirit, and there is no other one.”
--The Upanishads--

“Cease from the practice based on intellectual understanding, pursuing words, and following after speech, and learn the backward step that turns your light inward to illuminate your self. Body and mind of themselves will drop away, and your original face will be manifest.”
--Dogen--

A little more food for thought ....

Have you ever contemplated what instincts truly are, if not the “cliff notes” of the accumulated knowledge which stems from the experiences of the consciousnesses that have preceded you? Are instincts not inherent knowledge? And if they are inherent knowledge from the consciousnesses that have preceded us, somewhere within us may be the inherent knowledge of the singularity, the consciousness from which we all originate. I don’t need to ponder how much of that inherent knowledge is dormant, hidden, tucked away in many, because they need to influence the world to know they exist. Curious enough, the observer is intangible. How real can reality be when the self that is determining it to be real is itself intangible?

But then again .....
“Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions.”
--Albert Einstein--


I appreciate the input. I thank you for your time and for your sharing.

Do you think we know who Sir Isaac Newton is because an apple fell, or because he asked the question of why the moon doesn't fall like the apple did from the tree?

I am certain there are a multitude of good Christians in the world. As I sit here as station captain at the Nellis AFB fire department (and yes, I'm an EMT) and ponder on the good souls that do help others, I am thankful for their existance, and helping others with flat tires. It is unfortunate that history has proven that sometimes the mass collection of Christians easily forget his teachings. Sure they may have helped you change your tire, but ....

Where were the Christians when the Alexandrian Library was burning to the ground with every collected word written known to mankind, effectively regressing human knowledge by 1000 years? ...... Christians were the ones burning to the ground.

Where were Christians when the entire Mayan culture, Mayan language, Mayan lives were being obliterated? ...... Christians were the ones obliterating the Mayan culture.

Where were the Christians when 500 nations, 500 languages, 500 cultures were wiped nearly clean from North America within a generation? .... Christians were the ones killing 500 unique nations, each with a language or two of their own.

Where were Christians when a man was jailed and confined to his house for the remainder of his life for stating the obvious truth that the Earth and planets rotate around the sun? Christians were the ones prosecuting him and then they condemned him to ex-communication and eternal damnation.

If Christians judge others for the truths they say, how will they be judged for the entire cultures they have destroyed?

Not to worry, not even Christians can confine GOD.

I wish people would just walk whatever path they choose, and yeild to the teachings of whatever spirituality or religion inspires them to truly help everyone.

Make me a channel of your peace...
The prayer of St. Francis

Helen, St. Francis knew that god was not a seperate entity from him, and prayed that he would become godlike in his understanding and abilities to console and love.

Esoteric Teacher, I am enjoying your posts

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
As I sit here as station captain at the Nellis AFB fire department (and yes, I'm an EMT) and ponder on the good souls that do help others, I am thankful for their existance, and helping others with flat tires.

You have too much free time

It is unfortunate that history has proven that sometimes the mass collection of Christians easily forget his teachings. Sure they may have helped you change your tire, but ....

and you are reading lies and meditating on them

Where were the Christians when the Alexandrian Library was burning to the ground with every collected word written known to mankind, effectively regressing human knowledge by 1000 years? ...... Christians were the ones burning to the ground.

1000 years ehh?
Im sure you meant christians burnt it to the ground
Julius Caesar. During his invasion of Alexandria in 47–48 BC, Caesar set the enemy fleet in the harbor on fire. Some historians believe that this fire spread into the city and destroyed the entire library. While this interpretation is now a minority view, it is based on several ancient sources, all of which were written at least about 150 years after the destruction supposedly took place.
Do you see a problem there?

There were several times when the library was destroyed and the last time appears to be by the Roman catholic church. How surprising. Why did they do it? They were cleaning up pagan works. This leads us to the Mayans, who also had extensive records that were destroyed.

Where were Christians when the entire Mayan culture, Mayan language, Mayan lives were being obliterated? ...... Christians were the ones obliterating the Mayan culture.

No. Christians were enduring the INQUISITION. Remember that? Its when the popes led whole sale slaughter so that they could dominate. Then the protestant reformation came and they broke away from the church! Remember that. the 1500's? The Roman Catholic Church still controlled the spanish throne at the time. You are right in that the church did this...but you are wrong for giving credit to Jesus Christ.

and there are christians out there today who STILL DONT UNDERSTAND why there must be a distinction between the lies of the RCC and the truth of Christ.

Where were the Christians when 500 nations, 500 languages, 500 cultures were wiped nearly clean from North America within a generation? .... Christians were the ones killing 500 unique nations, each with a language or two of their own.

Where were the christians when Rome ruled the world and when the barbarians came and destroyed all that wonderful culture that rome built?
Where were the christians when Islam spread over the world and killed or forced converts?

I got a question. Where were you? Where were the self proclaimed people Gods? I know.
They were the ones doing all the killing.

Where were Christians when a man was jailed and confined to his house for the remainder of his life for stating the obvious truth that the Earth and planets rotate around the sun? Christians were the ones prosecuting him and then they condemned him to ex-communication and eternal damnation.

LOL

Did the roman catholic church do that or did the bible? Seems you are still confusing the RCC with Gods word.
Two different things. God has no institution on earth. ONly people. Im not sure how you get excommunicated but I wouldnt mind it.

If Christians judge others for the truths they say, how will they be judged for the entire cultures they have destroyed?

If you read Christs words you would know what a christian was and wouldnt have so much trouble spotting a christian .

Not to worry, not even Christians can confine GOD.

God defines us

[quoteI wish people would just walk whatever path they choose, and yeild to the teachings of whatever spirituality or religion inspires them to truly help everyone.
So does satan...as long as its not christian. Thats what you meant isnt it? You just got done propagating a bunch of bovine scathology about christians...and then you say that last line?

Yeah...its safe to say that his was not ispired by God

Yes, Jake1997, I do have too much free time on my hands, and I thank you for the compliment of my time management skills.

Julius Caesar. During his invasion of Alexandria in 47–48 BC, Caesar set the enemy fleet in the harbor on fire. Some historians believe that this fire spread into the city and destroyed the entire library.

Jake1997 , umm .. you do know it was a bishop in the fleet of Julius who was a member the Roman Catholoic Church that gave the order to burn down the Library, don't you?

Perhaps if you could quote Jesus directly and demonstrate how these thoughts and ideas contradict his teachings ......

Jake1997, I like the majority of your thoughts and contributions to the forums we encounter eachother in. But as I became a born again Christian, yes it was that path I took, I realized what Christ meant when he said "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you and all around you." Dear friend, if GOD does not also reside within you, he is not GOD, because he is not OMNIPOTENT. If the GOD you worship does not have a place to reside within you, he simply isn't everywhere and simply isn't GOD.

If you could possibly quote Jesus and demonstrate how the thoughts and ideas I'm experiencing contradict Jesus's teachings, then you will change my mind.

I'm definatley not saying I'm GOD, or a GOD person.

For what it's worth Jake1997, we agree on a great deal of things. I enjoy your presence, and look exhuberantly forward to our next exchange of ideas and beliefs.

[edit on 4-5-2005 by Esoteric Teacher]

[edit on 4/5/05 by Esoteric Teacher]

As I lay down to bed each night and review and analyze what I have learned each day, and the actions and behaviors I've exhibited I notice the mistakes I've made:

(I'm still unsure of how to incorporate quote's in the little gray boxes; if someone could enlighten me on how to do so I'd be most appreciative.)
Jake1997 wrote:
Julius Caesar. During his invasion of Alexandria in 47–48 BC, Caesar set the enemy fleet in the harbor on fire. Some historians believe that this fire spread into the city and destroyed the entire library.


Of which I replied (in error):
Jake1997 , umm .. you do know it was a bishop in the fleet of Julius who was a member the Roman Catholoic Church that gave the order to burn down the Library, don't you?

After some reflexion last night I realized my error and have done a little more research to gather the facts that pointed out the truth, rather than what I thought. Here is some facts concerning the error of my thoughts and how I expressed them incorrectly:

Source material can be found at:
www.bede.org.uk...

In this sight you will read:

"Ammianus Marcellinus says that only the Capitol in Rome compared to its splendour.[63] It was this very grandeur that spelt its doom as it was first ransacked by Artemius, prefect of the City, on the orders of the Arian heretic George of Cappadocia in about AD360[64] and then destroyed utterly by a mob incited by Theophilus, the orthodox patriarch of Alexandria, in AD391 who built churches over the site."

I was under the impression from what I had learned that Theophilus was the equivelant of a Bishop in the earliest co-ordinated Christian efforts of combining all the followers of Christ. But, that assumption may be wrong.

However Jake1997 was accurate as well because the same websight makes an extended explanation and study of Julius's impact on the Library:

"One of the final pagan Roman historians, the fourth century Ammianus Marcellinus, explains about the fate of the Library during an aside about the city of Alexandria in his Roman History. He says that the story about the fire started by Julius Caesar is 'the unanimous belief of the ancient authors' but confuses the library building with the Serapeum temple and again gives the number of scrolls destroyed as 700,000[49] (perhaps Gellius is his source). The story is repeated shortly afterwards with the figure of 400,000 scrolls destroyed, by Orosius, an early Christian historian, in his History Against the Pagans[50]. Both these writers are far too late to be accurate sources on their own, but they do reveal that by the fourth century the Royal Library was widely believed to have been destroyed by Julius Caesar. Both of them will be discussed further below with regard to the destruction of the Serapeum which occurred in their own time.

This concludes the case against Caesar which seems to be pretty good although not watertight. For some reason many modern scholars have been unwilling to accept it even though there is no mention of the Royal Library existing at all after his visit. In fact, one must go all the way back to accounts covering the second century BC before coming across any mention of the Library."

Interestingly enough without Jake1997's input in this thread I may have never found the need to delve into the truth behind the beliefs of the burning down of the Alexandrian Library.

Source material found at:
www.keelynet.com...
which states:
"Atlantis was Antartica before it froze. Refer to the map that was
> discovered and dates back to 1500's which shows the coastline of
> Antartica accurately without ice and as a tropical region. The map was
> based on an older map with notes commenting on an advanced society
> living there. It was said they lived there over 4000-5000yrs ago."

Although I may not agree in it's entirety the above statement, how is it that anyone that lived in the 1500s had a map of Antartica as it appears without the 3 miles of ice that now covers it.

My thoughts about the destruction of knowledge and loss of accumilated documentation stems primarily from the proof contained in the "Peri Reis" map. The Peri Reis map is a map that Reis (an admiral in the navy of Asia Minor) that gained notoriety in the early 1920's, but had existed from the 1500s when Peri Reis copied it from a far older copy in a library in Asia Minor that he himself says was copied from a far older version from a library in Alexandria.

Incedently my point is we verified the fact that the mountain ranges, rivers, and coastlines (that are indicated in the Peri Reis map that dates back to at least the Library of Alexandria) when in the late 1970s and early 1980s we had the technology in space to use radar imagery to penetrate the 3 miles of ice to see what lies underneath.

Think of it, we "discovered" in the 1980s the same information that existed at least 2000 years ago. So, yes .... I do believe that the destruction of the library that was totally destroyed by Theophilus and Julius set mankind's accumilated knowledge back at least 1000 years, but in this case more than 2000 years since Antartica has been covered by ice since at least 9000 BC, in which case the knowledge/prrof/documentation set us back 11,000 years.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

I'm created in "his" (I use that word loosely) image,
I crave your input.
I thank you in advance for your contribution to this thread.

God tells us that He created Adam in His "image",(body, soul, spirit, also without sin)

After that people were made in the "image" of Adam(with sin embedded in us, that will eventually come to fruition.

The greatest conspiracy in religion and the greatest falsehood in it is this. That a person earns their way to heaven and eternal, everlasting life through their good works. That is the greatest conspiracy. That misrepresents God and seeks to make void Jesus Christ.

I'm created in "his" (I use that word loosely) image

So that no one mis-interprits the intention of what I meant when I stated:
(I use that word loosely) I was reffering to the word "his", because I really don't believe GOD is limited to the having only male genitalia in the literal sense. Don't mean to seem so graphic, sorry if you interprit it that way.

Great input though, thanks for the contribution.