Remeber Vietnam? Agent Orange a warcrime!

Have a read...

news.bbc.co.uk...

Chemical Warfare in the name of "Freedom and Demcracy" (TM) with effects still felt 30 years on. Lovely... the US obviously REALLY cares.

The big bully America trying to save South Vietnam from its own people... while pretending the North wants to invade. Oh NO! Not going to war under false precepts again.

Seems to be the MO for the US.

Did you find this on the "where is the support now" thread?

and just think agent orange is only the beginning. a win about agent orange may just open a door best left shut. not to say that it is not a just case. but like the "warcrimes trials" it could set president for other possible suits.

just think about the "gulf war syndrome". which i understand is suposidly due to depleated uranium shells. also being blaimed for medical problems in iraq. not good to say the least. this could be the next suit of this nature. perhapse the use of depleated uranium should be dropped.

Originally posted by drogo
perhapse the use of depleated uranium should be dropped.

No doubt about it mate!

Just the thought of it is enough to make me sick... even lead is a heavy metal and is toxic. But somewhat better i think that Uranium somehow.. prolly to do with atomic mass and the size of the Atom etc.

I thimk gulf war syndrome has been linked to exposure to nerve agents.

Zombies, Coneheads - it seems the BBC is really turning into a regular Star, or National Enquirer! Is Elvis going to drop down from the mother ship and give me a cheeseburger?

Agent Orange was a load of crap then, and it is still nothing, now. The Air Force used Agetn Orange to lclear away the vegetation the enemy used to kill the troops. It was stopped in 1971 because the tree huggers and war activists threw hissie-fits, and the jungle grew back for the NVA and VC to once again use.

The Air Force has continued to monitor those who were regularly exposed to Agent Orange. The only ones who had significant exposure were the ones who did the spraying during Operation Ranch Hand, and the only difference between them and the rest of the population is a slightly elevated risk of diabetes.

Isn't it time to give this type of crap a rest? Digging up non-issues from thirty years ago and creating horrible lies for today is not cute.

So, correct me if I am wrong, but if we are just now beginning to understand the long term effects of dioxin contamination, then why is something that was done 30 years ago a war crime?

My uncle served in Vietnam and was sprayed with that Agent Orange. He died of cancer in 1985 as a result.

I remember my mother saying something about the government not wanting to take responsibility.... That was her brother.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Zombies, Coneheads - it seems the BBC is really turning into a regular Star, or National Enquirer! Is Elvis going to drop down from the mother ship and give me a cheeseburger?

Agent Orange was a load of crap then, and it is still nothing, now. The Air Force used Agetn Orange to lclear away the vegetation the enemy used to kill the troops. It was stopped in 1971 because the tree huggers and war activists threw hissie-fits, and the jungle grew back for the NVA and VC to once again use.

The Air Force has continued to monitor those who were regularly exposed to Agent Orange. The only ones who had significant exposure were the ones who did the spraying during Operation Ranch Hand, and the only difference between them and the rest of the population is a slightly elevated risk of diabetes.

Isn't it time to give this type of crap a rest? Digging up non-issues from thirty years ago and creating horrible lies for today is not cute.

I was in Vietnam a couple of years ago. I travelled along the length of the country and saw that there are areas where the jungle still hasn't grown back, and in all cases, where it has, it's secondary growth. The number of mutations seen in the younger population was startling, even by developing countries standards. It's still very much an issue for Vietnam today, and it behooves Americans not to forget that they used agent orange as a means to the end of helping these people to begin with.

-koji K.

Whats really cool about agent orange, other than the government refusing to take responsibility for it, is that it was made by the same company that makes Aspartame, and is monopolizing the GM Foods industry, by many accounts, in a massive global hostile take over. I G Farben has many offspring when the company was broken up. The really interesting thing is it took nearly fifty years for the company to dissolve. Alot of money goes to alot of dirty hands in that kind of time. Hell, it's one of the companies that runs the country now, for crying out loud. I am beginning to think that Nazi Germany didn't loose the war, they just relocated here.

I am beginning to think that Nazi Germany didn't loose the war, they just relocated here.

twitchy,
true. they DID.

they ferried all the top notch scientist and warfare experts from germany to the US (many resume a career in Los Alamos) via op. paper clip/

The VA page on Agent Orange
National Acedmies on Agent Orange

Based on their evaluation of the scientific literature, the committee found sufficient evidence of a statistical association between exposure to herbicides or dioxin and three types of cancer: soft tissue sarcoma, non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, and Hodgkin's disease.

The committee also found sufficient evidence of an association with chloracne, a skin condition.

The committee found limited or suggestive evidence of an association between exposure to herbicides or dioxin and three other types of cancer: respiratory cancers, prostate cancer, and multiple myeloma. They also found limited or suggestive evidence that herbicide or dioxin exposure may be associated with three other conditions: porphyria cutanea tarda, which manifests as a skin disorder; the acute, transient form of peripheral neuropathy, a nerve disorder that can lead to pain, numbness, and weakness in the limbs; and the congenital birth defect called spina bifida, in the children of fathers who were exposed to herbicides

For most of the other cancers, diseases, and conditions reviewed by the committee, the scientific data were not sufficient to determine whether an association exists.

A second Agent Orange research effort being conducted by the National Academies was prompted by a 1999 request from the Department of Veterans Affairs to call together a committee to conduct an interim review of the scientific evidence regarding one of the conditions addressed in the Veterans and Agent Orange series of reports: Type II diabetes. This disease is also referred to as non-insulin dependent diabetes mellitus and as adult-onset diabetes. The committee convened for this review conducted a workshop and meeting to hear current researchers in the field present information on their ongoing investigations and to review material published since the deliberations of the Update 1998 committee. Although limited to one health outcome, this committee adhered to the format of the update series described above. Their draft report is presently under review. It is expected to be released in May, 2000.

Search results for Agent Orange at the National Acadamies

Agent Orange used in Korean DMZ

American Cancer Society on Agent Orange




Journal of Occupational and Environmental Medicine v.43, n.5, May01

Marked elevation of dioxin associated with the herbicide Agent Orange was recently found in 19 of 20 blood samples from persons living in Bien Hoa, a large city in southern Vietnam. This city is located near an air base that was used for Agent Orange spray missions between 1962 and 1970. A spill of Agent Orange occurred (it this air base non Man 30 Years before blood samples were collected in 1999. Samples were collected, frozen, and seat to a World Health Organization-certified dioxin laboratory for congener-specific analysis as part of a Vietnam Red Cross project. Previous analyses of more than 2200 pooled blood samples collected in the 1990s identified Bien Hoa as one of several southern Vietnam areas with persons having elevated blood dioxin levels from exposure to Agent Orange.
......
Persons new to this region and children born after Agent Orange spraying ended also had elevated TCDD levels. This TCDD uptake was recent and occurred decades after spraying ended. We hypothesize that a major route of current and past exposures is from the movement of dioxin from soil into river sediment, then into fish, and from fish consumption into people. (J Occup Environ Med. 2001;43:435-443)

Originally posted by Ignorance Embraced
Agent Orange was a load of crap then, and it is still nothing, now

[edit on 8-5-2005 by Legalizer]

Man, Agent Orange ain't so bad.

It's an herbicide that just happens to be carcinogenic. Those people who got sprayed shouldn't have been standing in front of the foliage. Come to think of it, it's not even carcinogenic. It's actually nutritious, just like mercury!

Just ask Thomas Crowne if Agent Orange is bad...

My grandfather was in Vietnam and died two years ago from a rare form of leukemia only known to be provoked by exposure to Agent Orange (only the 9th recorded case, all in Vietnam vets).

As I understand, Monsanto and the US government knew even during Vietnam that it was carcinogenic. Murderous cowardly rich men are always ready to kill the poor and brave, American or foreign. I hope these findings stick for Gulf War syndrome, too. Its time we, the people, held these sociopathic elitists responsible for their actions.

Originally posted by iceTman

I am beginning to think that Nazi Germany didn't loose the war, they just relocated here.

twitchy,
true. they DID.

they ferried all the top notch scientist and warfare experts from germany to the US (many resume a career in Los Alamos) via op. paper clip/

And don't forget the Vatican Ratlines....

Yep, they sure did move over here! Homeland sounds like Fatherland, doesn't it? Then you have Prescott Bush's support of the Nazis...apple doesn't fall far from the tree, does it?

Just joined.
Has anyone posted this link re DU? Food for thought, but very graphic

www.bushflash.com...

The reason that IT IS a war crime.. even 30 years ago.. is that use of chemical agents against an enemy in war is illegal.. hence war crime. Its also a crime of war to cause serious enviromental damage which was also done here. That land could have productive uses but because some murderous low life didn't have enough money yet in the 60s they decided that ruining the country side would help win the war. I mean, no one is going to fight over land that isn't usefull are they?

"We had to destroy the village to save it!" mentality. And yeah actually have you read how bad the DU poisoning is in Iraq and Afganistan?

www.cuttingedge.org...

These are your brothers and fathers and in some cases your future wives and some of your mothers even.

What are you going to do about it? (probablly nothing)

And only the US has had to deal with problems like this because they are the only ones who can cause this kind of destruction... and are actively doing it.

Soon any location that the US fires any heavy machine gun will run the risk of being able to make anyone sick from the particulates in the air. There are reports that the incidents of cancer are soaring in Iraq.

I love how that even in this day where information itself travels at the speed of light (nearly anyways) people still seem to think that war is this really clean and simple straightforward event that takes place between the 'good' and the 'bad' guys... and it's not like that at all.. the only people who really get killed in wars these days are the innocent populations who inhabit the war zone. And even more.. these days.. the weapons leave scars on the land that last 10,000 years, and sometimes still popup after all this time and kill ... usually children.

Remember that the next time you "support the troops" ... will you REALLY support THESE troops when they GET BACK IN TO THE USA? No.. they will become vets on the street probablly.. like a very high percentage of mentally distrubed homeless people.


VMX


PS: But war is hell right?

My uncle also was in Nam and the doctors still can't figure out what has been ailing him for the last 6 years. May or may not be a connection.

Warfare is a hazardous enterprise. The only truly important factor with regard to defoliants in Vietnam is how many American and South Vietnamese lives did its use save during the war. Perhaps, next time we fight a war in a jungle, we will have other means or priorities, but at the time, our leaders made the decisions that needed to be made given the circumstances.

Admiral Elmo Zumwalt, who approved the use of defoliants in the Mekong Delta, had a son who died of cancer both believed to be the result of defoliant exposure. Both agreed that the elder Zumwalt's decision was the correct one to make at the time. The ones who are doing the most whining about it here are long-time, chronic America bashers who troll the internet for anything controversial to post about the US. Failing that, they just whine.

As for Vietnam's claims against the US, well, maybe we have some unfinished business in Southeast Asia. Until we can address that matter, maybe a trade embargo would suit their agenda.


[edit on 05/5/14 by GradyPhilpott]

GRADYPHILPOTT sorry for the caps I did not want to quote but wanted to get your attention, where did you get the picture of Stringbean he is one of my favorite performers, I grew up watching the opry and all those country music shows and I always adored him. Its so sad what happened to him.