Secrets of ‘contorted’ freemason initiation to be revealed

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
I have learned how to read masonic works. I know the truth is in between the lines.

Yes, ASE, but which lines are you reading inbetween? Masonic symbolism allows a variety of interpretations to be made. The interpretions made will tell you nothing about freemasonry but a lot about the person doing the interpreting.

In many ways freemasonry is like a mirror.

Don't like what you see?

Originally posted by Trinityman
Yes, ASE, but which lines are you reading inbetween? Masonic symbolism allows a variety of interpretations to be made. The interpretions made will tell you nothing about freemasonry but a lot about the person doing the interpreting.

In many ways freemasonry is like a mirror.

Don't like what you see?

*applause*

Dude you are one insightful individual.



Oh and ASE, I am still waiting for a reply from you...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 4/21/05 by The Axeman]

This is the whole point of Freemasonry, it's not to educate but really just to create a sense within an individual that they have wisdom and insight as well as an important role in the universe when in reality they are just an under-achieving piece of cannon-fodder.
After all, someone has to charge the machine guns don't they?

There ARE finite definitions to the rituals and they are explained by both Pike and McClenechan in " Morals & Dogma" and "The Book" but I'm yet to meet a Freemason who has actually read and understands these works even though they are both written in relatively straight terms.
To be blunt I doubt any of the supposed "authorities" that post in this forum have read these works, their posts always show a glaring lack of knowledge or comprehension.
This fits in with the whole self-styled "education" methods used by the cult, a Mason from the moment he is "brought in" finds himself to be a genius (maybe for the first time in his life) and he is never wrong about anything from that moment onwards, just in need of further "light" and improvement.
You can see why it's very hard to get someone out of this cult, in order to come to their senses they have to realise that they are NOT an elite member of an exclusive group, just some "Walter Mitty" who is being played for a fool.

To quote Pike (M&D pg 819) "The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple.
Part of the symbols are displayed to the Initiate but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he should understand them; but it is intended that he shall IMAGINE he understands them."

Originally posted by MrNECROS
This is the whole point of Freemasonry, it's not to educate but really just to create a sense within an individual that they have wisdom and insight as well as an important role in the universe when in reality they are just an under-achieving piece of cannon-fodder.
After all, someone has to charge the machine guns don't they?

Whatever you say man. You're apparently the expert, being a non-mason and all. Of course, only someone who ISN'T a mason can truly understand the fraternity and what it's all about, even thought it's a private organization that only gives insight and knowledge to it's members. But no, you're the expert. And masons also blew up your toilet, right? Whatever you say.

To be blunt I doubt any of the supposed "authorities" that post in this forum have read these works, their posts always show a glaring lack of knowledge or comprehension.

MANY masons on this forum have told you they've read it, have even refuted ALL of your ridiculous claims. But you just ignore those posts, of course, because they contrdict your beliefs and your agenda.

To quote Pike (M&D pg 819) "The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple.
Part of the symbols are displayed to the Initiate but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he should understand them; but it is intended that he shall IMAGINE he understands them."

And I have a question for you: Why would Pike write this for all the Blue Lodge masons to read, if that is truly what he meant by that!?!? Why would he reveal all this to the very people he is saying that those secrets should be kept from? Huh? You're nuts. You have purposely given a false innterpretation of Pike's quotes in order to further serve your agenda. Get a life.

And for the last time, just because Pike writes somoething about masonry, THAT DOESNT MEAN ITS TRUE. It is only HIS opinion, his interpretation. Just like your belief that your toilet was blown up by masons; YOU believe it, but it's not true to all of us here in the real world.

Originally posted by MrExplodingToilet
This is the whole point of Freemasonry, it's not to educate but really just to create a sense within an individual that they have wisdom and insight as well as an important role in the universe when in reality they are just an under-achieving piece of cannon-fodder.

No, this is not the point of freemasonry. Your foolish and patronising words highlight the ignorance in which you chose to wallow.

After all, someone has to charge the machine guns don't they?

Does anyone know what this individual is talking about?

There ARE finite definitions to the rituals and they are explained by both Pike and McClenechan in " Morals & Dogma" and "The Book" but I'm yet to meet a Freemason who has actually read and understands these works even though they are both written in relatively straight terms.

These books relate specifically to the Scottish Rite in the United States in the 19th Century. Why don't you try and read something less than 100 years old about Craft Masonry? McClenechan wasn't even approved, AFAIK. Try W. K. Kirk MacNulty's Freemasonry - A Journey through Ritual and Symbol or The Freemason At Work by Harry Carr for a more relevant perspective.

To be blunt I doubt any of the supposed "authorities" that post in this forum have read these works, their posts always show a glaring lack of knowledge or comprehension.

No wonder you are so ignorant about freemasonry when you chose such archaic reading material.

This fits in with the whole self-styled "education" methods ... waffle waffle waffle ... who is being played for a fool.

You flaunt your ignorance with pride, hoping to impress people with your special knowledge of freemasonry that, somehow, all the real members seem to have missed.

To quote Pike (M&D pg 819) "The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed to the Initiate but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he should understand them; but it is intended that he shall IMAGINE he understands them."

Please try someone other than Pike, you are starting to sound like a broken record. John J. Robinson (he of Born in Blood fame), in his book A Pilgrim's Path makes the following observation about Morals and Dogma

Some of the critics of Masonry cite the degree work, but more find their raw material for Masonic condemnation in Pike's writings, especially his ponderous Morals and Dogma, an 861-page volume that many Masons own, but few have read. It is not only tedious reading, but is full of Pike's own perceptions of Masonry. Many Masons will agree with some statements, but there are others that no Mason will ever believe. Pike was so wrapped up in his knowledge of ancient faiths and philosophic systems that he tended to make the background of Masonry far more complex and esoteric than it was ever meant to be. In some of his chapters, if the words "Mason" and "Masonry" were removed, it is reasonable to believe that many a Mason reading it would not recognize his own fraternity.

Pike was a man with an extraordinary breadth of knowledge, and it is only natural that he wanted to share it all. Unfortunately, he had just one outlet that he could count on, and he appears to have wanted to find a place for everything he knew in the Southern Jurisdiction of Scottish Rite. The teachings of Masonry are simple and clear. Pike preferred them to be festooned with mystic interpretations and deep, arcane meanings.

Make no mistake: Pike was a dynamic force in establishing a strong membership in his own jurisdiction, and a strong force in establishing degree work that has lasted for a hundred years. He was a towering figure in the history of American Masonry. What he was not was a Grand Master of any Grand Lodge, who alone is the final authority in basic Masonic practices and jurisprudence. He was never a spokesman for all of Freemasonry and never tried to assert himself as such. He was a strong man who never shrank from expressing his personal opinions, and it is important to remember that his pronouncements as they relate to Masonry are just that: his own opinions.

That's why the most important part of Morals and Dogma may be its preface. Not written by Pike himself, the preface was, and is, the official statement of The Supreme Council, the governing body of Scottish Rite Masonry that published his work. It has been ratified by every succeeding Supreme Council, up to this very day. In part, it says:

In preparing this work, the Grand Commander [Pike] has been about equally Author and Compiler; since he has extracted quite half its contents from the works of the best writers and most philosophic or eloquent thinkers. Perhaps it would have been better and more acceptable if he had extracted more and written less.

And now the most important sentence in the preface...

Everyone is entirely free to reject and dissent from whatsoever herein may seem to him to be untrue or unsound.

I was very relieved to find that statement at the beginning of Morals and Dogma, because there is much in it that I "reject and dissent from." Such a statement requires at least one example, and I offer the following quote from page 819:

The Blue Degrees [first, second and third] are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine that he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry (the 28th degree and beyond).

I have asked enough Masons to convince myself that there is no Mason anywhere who agrees with that statement.

Taken from www.masonicinfo.com... where you can read more about Albert Pike.

Like I said, two zealots who've not read the material rabidly defending their cult.

The reason Pike wrote this work is because he knows the power of mind control, bottom feeders like yourseves won't read this work in any case even though it was originally written for the perusal of 32nd Degree Masons only.

I mean how else can you take "Morals and Dogma" and "The Book"?
IThey are very open about what Masonry is all about, there's really no need for interpretation, both of the authors are spelling it all out for you.
It's just a case of whether you are willing to read it or not.

It's about the economisation of intelect and a method of harnessing "the blind force of the mass" (M&D Pg 1) to better serve human endevour.
i.e. "Mind Control."

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Like I said, two zealots who've not read the material rabidly defending their cult.

The reason Pike wrote this work is because he knows the power of mind control, bottom feeders like yourseves won't read this work in any case even though it was originally written for the perusal of 32nd Degree Masons only.

How can you say I have not read the material? Do you know me, do you know what I have or haven't read? No? Didn't think so. I have actually read quite a bit of Morals and Dogma, and found I did not agree with quite a bit of it. Like I said, it is only Pike's thoughts and opinions, and does not stand for all masons.

Sorry, but I honestly don't believe that you have read any of it. I think you have visited FreemasonryWatch.com and copied/pasted the same old tired quotations that all you guys use in your same old tired, played out arguments-- the same ones that have been refuted thousands of times. Why don't you try being original for a change?

But like I said before, everyone knows YOU'RE obviously the expert.


[edit on 22-4-2005 by sebatwerk]

Sebatwerk;
No, Pike & McClenechan are the experts.
You still aren't getting the message are you?

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Sebatwerk;
No, Pike & McClenechan are the experts.
You still aren't getting the message are you?

It is YOU who does not get the message. Everyone knows that you are full of it. Everyone knows that you have an agenda and that what you say are absolute lies. NOBODY here buys your filth, not even the anti-masons. Even they know that you are too over the top to be believable. You discredit yourself with the absurdities you post.

So one of two things must be true:
1. You are lying to show masons as being evil. You are probably doing this because you tried to join the masons and were rejected, or you simply dont like them because you believe what you read on Freemasonrywatch.com.

2. You actually believe what you say. This is a scary scenario, because it shows that you are REALLY TRULY sick. I don't say that as an insult, but if you actually believe that masons are a cult, that they force people to join, that they drug people, feed their dogs laxatives, rummage through their trash and blow up their toilets, then you need IMMEDIATE help because you are a danger to yourself and to others.

This is obvious by the fact that you ACCUSE your own family members of being masons, even though they swear to you that they are not. You are obsessed with this fraternity and you have feelings of being persecuted by them. You seem to be absolutely paranoid and delusional. People with delusions are dangerous because they are cappable of doing anything to escape the supposed "enemies" following them.

Anyways, these are just my observations. But I am sure many people have thought the same thing. Again, I am not trying to insult you, but just point out to you the impression you give everyone here. I strongly suggest that you re-asses your current position in this world and you decide what is best for yourself: to keep lying about a group of people that have done nothing to you or anyone else, or to keep running from a persecutor that does not exist, or to finally live in peace (and reality).

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Like I said, two zealots who've not read the material rabidly defending their cult.

The reason Pike wrote this work is because he knows the power of mind control, bottom feeders like yourseves won't read this work in any case even though it was originally written for the perusal of 32nd Degree Masons only.

I mean how else can you take "Morals and Dogma" and "The Book"?
IThey are very open about what Masonry is all about, there's really no need for interpretation, both of the authors are spelling it all out for you.
It's just a case of whether you are willing to read it or not.

It's about the economisation of intelect and a method of harnessing "the blind force of the mass" (M&D Pg 1) to better serve human endevour.
i.e. "Mind Control."

Bravo MrNecros, Bravo masonry is about, not harnessing, but rather, inprisoning the truely gifted intellect behind a oath to the death. Mind control at its best.

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
Bravo MrNecros, Bravo

masonry is about, not harnessing, but rather, inprisoning the truely gifted intellect behind a oath to the death. Mind control at its best.

Nice to see you're still dodging my post.

Originally posted by The Axeman


Nice to see you're still dodging my post.

Whats your question.

Maybe with a little more research, you might find what youre looking for.

But keep it up!

I have already stated what I was going to do to answer the question. I will not debate masonic dogma as that is the reason for its exsistance in the first place, to confuse issues, and hide obvious facts. Plus, its as great a wast of time as watching soap opras. masonic teachings are only meant to cause chaos!

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
I have already stated what I was going to do to answer the question. I will not debate masonic dogma as that is the reason for its exsistance in the first place, to confuse issues, and hide obvious facts. Plus, its as great a wast of time as watching soap opras. masonic teachings are only meant to cause chaos!

You just don't get the point, do you?


[edit on 22-4-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
masonic teachings are only meant to cause chaos!

Only amongst those not worthy to understand them.....feeling chaotic are you????

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
I have already stated what I was going to do to answer the question. I will not debate masonic dogma as that is the reason for its exsistance in the first place, to confuse issues, and hide obvious facts. Plus, its as great a wast of time as watching soap opras. masonic teachings are only meant to cause chaos!

Why beat around the bush?! Just answer the damned questions! You said those things, not me. All I want is for you to give me reasons that do not include references to flying orbs. They are simple questions, not difficult to undersand at all.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by MrNECROS
To quote Pike (M&D pg 819) "The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple.
Part of the symbols are displayed to the Initiate but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he should understand them; but it is intended that he shall IMAGINE he understands them."

My take on this as an outsider:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The reason Pike wrote this work is because he knows the power of mind control yada yada yada ....

Your foolish charactisation of me as a 'bottom feeder' highlights the spectacular lack of knowledge you continue to display about freemasonry and its members. It also makes some assumptions about me which I suspect you will find impossible to qualify.

Albert Pike wrote about the Scottish Rite, a popular Additional Order in North America, with his own personal interpretations of the meanings of the degrees. It tells us nothing about freemasonry itself, which had already been in existence for hundreds of years when Pike was writing.

Most freemasons outside of North America have never even heard of Albert Pike. The Scottish Rite is known as Rose Croix in England, the name taken from the 18th degree, and is probably the third or fourth most popular side order for Master Masons to join, after Royal Arch, Mark and possibly Knights Templar.

I have the patience to continue to respond to you (repetitively) because I find you a pitiable character. I have this sad image of you precariously perched on a lavatory patched up after an explosion, with your poor dog suffering in the corner on his own doggie-pan, cowering with fear as the thugs from the Free New World Illuminatibergers try to bash down the door. I genuinely feel sorry for you and would like to help, but I suspect you would believe I was 'coming to get you' or something.

If you have specific allegations against specific freemasons please u2u me and I will look into it for you.

[edit on 23-4-2005 by Trinityman]