Two massive gravity batteries are nearing completion

Two massive gravity batteries are nearing completion in the US and China
The system helps to plug the gap when it comes to renewable energy sources.
interestingengineering.com...

The basic idea behind a gravity battery system is to lift a heavy object, such as a large mass of concrete or a weight, on a pulley, using energy from a power source. When energy is needed, the thing can fall, and the potential energy is converted back into electricity

So, I'm not even going to pretend to understand this. If anyone can help out with breaking this down as to what exactly it is going on with this gravity battery thing.

To use potential energy for energy generation, Energy Vault has replaced water in a conventional hydropower unit with "proprietary cement/polymer-based composite bricks that can be made of ultra-low-cost materials: soil, mine tailings, coal ash, incinerated city waste, and other remediation materials."

Each brick is designed to weigh 35 metric tons and is engineered to have a specific gravity at least twice that of water and enough compressive agility. According to the firm, its approach stocks renewable energy and "utilizes material that would otherwise be destined for landfills at a very high financial and environmental cost."

Their original system consisted of a combination such blocks and a tall tower. A surplus of power, owing to sunlight or wind, is utilized to power a mechanical crane to lift the blocks 35 stories into the air. These blocks then stay suspended there until power is needed again. In times of need, these blocks are lowered, pulling on cables that spin turbines, thus producing electricity. According to Energy Vault, the blocks will have a storage capacity of up to 80 megawatt-hours and be able to continuously discharge 4 to 8 megawatts for 8 to 16 hours

I see that they are turning our trash into electricity with these gravity batteries...

The firm claims its conventional hoist machinery is more efficient than hydro plant pumps or turbines. "This results in a round trip efficiency of more than 80 percent with minimal auxiliary consumption -- compared to chemical batteries which require significant thermal management to extend their otherwise short cycle life."

This is getting a lot of buzz in the engineering world, so I thought I would share it with ATS.
Does this sound like a safe alternative to coal? Or is this some other hidden weapon they're trying to pass off as our salvation? (I'm not wrapping my mind around the gravity aspect)

What say you, our engineer/physicist members? Can anyone break this down in lamens terms for us?

I do like the fact that it's converting our trash into power. But how bad would that smell be??
This is interesting either way, and apparently is about to be operational. I find it "odd" that this has the appearance of a China and US collaboration. 🤔 (But that's for another thread)

Thanks

a reply to: BodhisattvaStyle

As I understand, the idea is that duing peak production times systems like solar and wind can produce more power than is needed. That excess power that would be otherwise wasted is converted into kinetic energy (via electric motors, for example) and used to lift thse massive weights, storing that excess electicity as potential energy.

When the wind dies down or the sun is not shining, or when consumption peaks, that large weight is dropped and powers a generator that creates extra electricity to meet the demand duruing peak hours or when when other sources (wind or solar) are off line or at reduced output.

Essentially, it is converting excess electrical energy to kinetic energy, then storing that as potential energy in order to be converted again into kinetic energy that will finally generate electric energy.

The trick is that there has to be enough excess output generated to power the mechanism that lifts the weight. If there is no excess energy throughout the production cycle, the whole concept breaks down. It's not really an efficient system, just one that can make use of excess energy that would otherwise be wasted.

Is that clear enough?
:

I was reading about this the other day and must admit the details made zero sense to me, but a clean, safe energy source sounds good to me!

originally posted by: incoserv
a reply to: BodhisattvaStyle

As I understand, the idea is that duing peak production times systems like solar and wind can produce more power than is needed. That excess power that would be otherwise wasted is converted into kinetic energy (via electric motors, for example) and used to life thse massive weights. When the wind dies down or the sun is not shining, or when consumption peaks, that large weight is dropped and powers a generator that creates extra electricity to meet the demand duruing peak hours or when when other sources (wind or solar) are off line or at reduced output.

Is that clear enough?

Yes, very helpful and clear.

I thought that solar power stations were already able to store power though. I had heard that at one near my house that had been on for a few years already had about 7 years worth of "stored energy." Is this just the same thing, but on a much larger scale? I live in a small rural area. These gravity batteries would be used for a large metro area, I'm guessing?

originally posted by: BodhisattvaStyle

originally posted by: incoserv
a reply to: BodhisattvaStyle

As I understand, the idea is that duing peak production times systems like solar and wind can produce more power than is needed. That excess power that would be otherwise wasted is converted into kinetic energy (via electric motors, for example) and used to life thse massive weights. When the wind dies down or the sun is not shining, or when consumption peaks, that large weight is dropped and powers a generator that creates extra electricity to meet the demand duruing peak hours or when when other sources (wind or solar) are off line or at reduced output.

Is that clear enough?

Yes, very helpful and clear.

I thought that solar power stations were already able to store power though. I had heard that at one near my house that had been on for a few years already had about 7 years worth of "stored energy." Is this just the same thing, but on a much larger scale? I live in a small rural area. These gravity batteries would be used for a large metro area, I'm guessing?

They do store power, in batteries. Batteries, however, are simply finite containers. If the batteries are full and the output at a given moment is still more than is being consumed on the grid, then there is excess energy. It's like pumping water; if your tanks are full and everybody has drunk enough and all the plants and animals are watered, the excess water will just be dumped on the ground, or the pumps will have to be shut off.

With solar or wind, it'd be a loss to shut down the generating system when it can be producing something, even if the batteries are full and the system is supplying enough to power the grid. So, instead of just letting all that electricity go to waste, you convert it to potential energy.

Hydroelectric generation doesn't stop at night or when the wind dies down, so there's no worry about the source of generation dipping. Excess power can just be dumped. Not so with wind and solar.
:

Was it Japan or Hong Kopg that came up with the idea to build a road that was populated by springs , such that as vehicles traveled the springs moved up and down generating electricity.
Now that's an idea ...

originally posted by: incoserv

originally posted by: BodhisattvaStyle

originally posted by: incoserv
a reply to: BodhisattvaStyle

As I understand, the idea is that duing peak production times systems like solar and wind can produce more power than is needed. That excess power that would be otherwise wasted is converted into kinetic energy (via electric motors, for example) and used to life thse massive weights. When the wind dies down or the sun is not shining, or when consumption peaks, that large weight is dropped and powers a generator that creates extra electricity to meet the demand duruing peak hours or when when other sources (wind or solar) are off line or at reduced output.

Is that clear enough?

Yes, very helpful and clear.

I thought that solar power stations were already able to store power though. I had heard that at one near my house that had been on for a few years already had about 7 years worth of "stored energy." Is this just the same thing, but on a much larger scale? I live in a small rural area. These gravity batteries would be used for a large metro area, I'm guessing?

They do store power, in batteries. Batteries, however, are simply finite containers. If the batteries are full and the output at a given moment is still more than is being consumed on the grid, then there is excess energy. It's like pumping water; if your tanks are full and everybody has drunk enough and all the plants and animals are watered, the excess water will just be dumped on the ground, or the pumps will have to be shut off.

With solar or wind, it'd be a loss to shut down the generating system when it can be producing something, even if the batteries are full and generators are supplying enough to power the grid. So, instead of just letting all that electricity go to waste, you convert it to potential energy.

I was starting to see more of what you were saying the more thought I put into it.
Oh, okay. I didn't realize that some of that energy was "spilling over" and being wasted.

Function
A potential energy function is a function of the position of an object. It can be defined only for conservative forces. A force is conservative if the work it does on an object depends only on the initial and final position of the object and not on the path. The gravitational force is a conservative force.

labman.phys.utk.edu...#:~:text=A%20potential%20energy%20function%20is,force%20is%20a%20conservative%2 0force.

This helped me understand the "potential energy." I was still only seeing another battery. Lol
I'm totally green (new to this) here, but this is another area I need to learn about and have a better understanding of. Thanks for the help.



I'm still a little lost tho. Not gonna lie. 😂

originally posted by: Gothmog
Was it Japan or Hong Kopg that came up with the idea to build a road that was populated by springs , such that as vehicles traveled the springs moved up and down generating electricity.
Now that's an idea ...

I'm also hearing about roads that as you drive on them you're charging your vehicle.

a reply to: BodhisattvaStyle

You wouldn't have a link to that article?

I'd especially like to see some photos.

ETA: I think I found it ...

No really good photos, though.
:

originally posted by: incoserv
a reply to: BodhisattvaStyle

You wouldn't have a link to that article?

I'd especially like to see some photos.

ETA: I think I found it ...

No really good photos, though.

Nice catch; I thought I had added the link to OP but hadn't. I went back and added it.

They said:

The firm claims its conventional hoist machinery is more efficient than hydro plant pumps or turbines. "This results in a round trip efficiency of more than 80 percent with minimal auxiliary consumption -- compared to chemical batteries which require significant thermal management to extend their otherwise short cycle life."

That's a ggreater efficiency than I expected. If I read it right, it means that only 20% of the energy used in operating the generator will be lost. That's 20% is energy that would not have been used anyway. Not bad.

originally posted by: incoserv
They said:

The firm claims its conventional hoist machinery is more efficient than hydro plant pumps or turbines. "This results in a round trip efficiency of more than 80 percent with minimal auxiliary consumption -- compared to chemical batteries which require significant thermal management to extend their otherwise short cycle life."

That's a ggreater efficiency than I expected. If I read it right, it means that only 20% of the energy used in operating the generator will be lost. That's 20% is energy that would not have been used anyway. Not bad.

So more bang for the buck.
I'm also seeing the life span of this being much greater, I think.

More on impact difference

. Abstract:The present energy storage systems such as lead acid batteries or lithium ion batteries have many drawbacks. The most important drawback is their adverse environmental impact, disposal problem, efficiency and charging time. We have renewable sources of energy such as solar and wind which can solve the environmental problems to a great extent. We all are aware of the fact about intermittency of wind and solar, hydro has the limitation of space requirement. Resources are free but not always usable and storable. To overcome these problems, a gravity battery is proposed in this paper. These proposed batteries will store the electrical energy in the form of potential energy and when needed this potential energy is converted back into kinetic energy and run a generator to produce electrical energy.

ieeexplore.ieee.org...#:~:text=The%20most%20important%20drawback%20is,problem%2C%20efficiency%20and%20charging%20time.

In answering this question, it's important not only to consider the upfront expenditure, but the total lifetime cost of a system. Gravity batteries are mechanical contraptions, and as such, they can break. Maybe a cable snaps, or a gearbox jams, or a patch of rust appears
These issues are problematic, but they're not fatal – individual components can be replaced with relative ease. This "repairability" means gravity batteries can last as long as 50 years, says Asmae Berrada, an energy storage specialist at the International University of Rabat in Morocco.May 17, 2022

www.bbc.com...#:~:text=These%20issues%20are%20problematic%2C%20bu t,University%20of%20Rabat%20in%20Morocco.

The China project is designed to have an energy storage capacity of 100 megawatt-hours, which can power 3,400 homes for a day, Not very many homes really and what is the cost?

A tower? Why not run the weights on a track up and down a very steep and very big hill.

originally posted by: graysquirrel
A tower? Why not run the weights on a track up and down a very steep and very big hill.

Or down an deep abandoned mine shaft or well.

And a diagram.

So this will be underground...

www.researchgate.net... ergy_Storage_and_Suspended_Weight_Gravity_Energy_Storage#pf2
A copy of the publication and all the schematics.

originally posted by: fernalley
The China project is designed to have an energy storage capacity of 100 megawatt-hours, which can power 3,400 homes for a day, Not very many homes really and what is the cost?

Properly built and maintained, I'd imagine that the longevity would way outstrip that of any battery system. In addition, the long-term environmental impact would be much smaller. Recycled materials are used to make the weights, then when the system does finally go out of service, most of the components would be recylcable in an environmentally positive way.

I'm really not sold on the concept in practical terms, but I like it in theory.

This helped me wrap my noodle around the concept, direct from Energy Vault themselves





vimeo.com...

a reply to: BodhisattvaStyle

That's what I was talkin' 'bout!