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originally posted by: SecrettoSociety
70% of Americans identified as Christian in 2022 . Now if we take 50% of them and assume they vote , that is a huge number. The Christian right votes heavier than most other Christian groups.
originally posted by: network dude
can you show where you got this information from that "Christians" think this way?
20 plus years I was in the Eastern Orthodox Church ( Russian ) and Im extremely well read on church history & the ancient church fathers including the western ones as well .
originally posted by: incoserv
a reply to: SecrettoSociety
If we lived in a perfect world, it'd be different. We don't. We lived in a world corrupted by sin, wickedness and selfish ambition.
There's no biblical mandate for total disengagement. Paul did say that magistrates are appointed by God for the maintenance of order. This didn't mean that all politicians do "God's work" (whatever that means); it means that systems of government are in place in human society for the benefit of society, or at least should be. It doesn't mean that every single magistrate is godly. There are instances when tyranny should be resisted, and it falls on the shoulders of good and decent men to resist.
One of the marks of the Christian faith is the liberty that the scriptures grant to disciples of Christ, liberty to interpret and practice certain non-essential issue according to one's light, understanding and convictions. There are some things that theologically and biblically non-negotiable, but things like you mention are not clearly delineated in scripture. You are essentially pulling laws and rules out of your butt.
If you feel the conviction to disengage, I can respect that. If one feels the conviction to engage for the betterment of society, I respect that, as well.
Granted, making an idol out of politics and politicians is sin, and the extreme religious right has been guilty of that. I've always said that the "Moral Majority" was neither very moral nor was it a majority. Too often, church leaders look to the temporal power of politics instead the eternal sovereignty of God to resolve their issues, making pleas and paying obeisance to the people in power instead of the True Power, but to place your own convictions (if indeed they are your true heartfelt convictions) on the entire body of believers is as both arrogant and unscriptural as their opposite extreme.
You would do well to understand 2,000 years of church history, where the catholic (small "c'" not Roman) church had gotten it wrong and where is gotten it right. There certainly is no single one-size-fits-all answer, as you seem to think that there should be.
:
I don’t disparage Christians for voting, do whatcha yah like .
originally posted by: amicusbrief
When putting forth opinions assumptions must be made so here are mine:
I personally prescribe to the idea that originally the nations and regions were ascribed to "principalities and powers" as per scripture and other ancient texts.
I also lean on the New Testament idea that GOD does oversee the rulers of the nations....yes even the evil ones.. (remember the GOD used Babylon as tool as well)
I also believe that each of us have a choice to make in how involved we are in the society in which we live...that whole free will thing and all....
If you choose to withdraw and devote your life to prayer and study....as the Essenes did.....then awesome but don't disparage those who either choose to or are perhaps called to be engaged....I like the hands and feet of GOD analogy
Well said
originally posted by: Maxmars
Secret to Society, Let me assure you that your choice of forum to post this thread cannot be said to be "wrong." The forum itself implies the tone and approach from which you wish to discuss the OP. Members are most likely to respect that 'filter,' although some might be inclined to reject the constraint... but that is not on you.
------
I don't think it is true, as the OP's choice of title implies; that Christians believe that politicians are doing God’s work?
I'm sure that some Christians can believe that, if they so choose. But truthfully, is it not that some people "say" that to endorse and support their "chosen" political celebrity? Further, it is not more likely that it is more a matter of the media amplifying those that say this very personal opinion, to one effect or it's opposite?
The Christian faith is particularly distinct in that those embracing it are free to make choices about political standing without the pressure of an indoctrinated clergy to dictate their choices (with some notable exceptions, of course.)
The biggest wrinkle in all this, in my opinion, is that people tend to be socially compliant... much to the chagrin of many politically infused ideologues... (or most ideologues for that matter) Christians will listen to each other and the politically inspired will 'use' that perspective to call others to agree...
While Christ was clear about the nature of the political establishment and it's relationship to the faithful, it seems often taken for granted that the politically described "good" does not automatically make it "God's" work... even if the partisans of Christian faith say it is.
Follow the heart, not the clamor of the crowd.
I am asking all Christians & not accusing all Christians of anything.
originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: SecrettoSociety
Your premise is flawed in presuming that all Christians think and feel the same.
There are probably some Christians who think and feel the way you describe, but it's not all Christians. You'll have to ask those Christians, not any Christian or all Christians.
For myself, I don't trust politicians and I don't think there's anyone out there to save us. That's not how our Constitutional Republic is supposed to work. WE are the government... of the people, by the people and for the people. Voting is just one way that the people participate in governance.
This does not violate any of Jesus' teachings.
What politician is trying to save our Country over their personal desires first & don’t even say Trump , because that man is very foul just like Biden.
originally posted by: Untun
originally posted by: SecrettoSociety
How could you vote for anyone & still think you are doing god’s will ?
You either vote, become president yourself, or go against the situation and destroy your country.
There are no laws against the fruits of the spirit so everything you do that is approved by God is no harrasment to your people. A country full of people causing chaos must be ruled strictly by its king. A country made peaceful by its citizens does not anger your king.
My point exactly. God is not on the side of any leader or person. We move towards God through private means without help from others .?
originally posted by: schuyler
I have some German belt buckles from WWII. Most of them were cut off the belts themselves with some of the belts remaining. It's pretty gruesome to think about. I suspect they were cut off corpses, but I do not know that for sure. These were from common German soldiers fighting for the Fatherland. They weren't part of the Nazi SS or anything like that. But the buckles all had a saying engraved in brass:
Gott ist mit uns.
You don't need that translated do you? But it does show one thing. Everyone thinks God is on their side.
Million of Christians believe that voting for candidates that oppose pro choice is a Christian duty & those same candidates vote for endless wars & capital punishment.
originally posted by: Cymatic
Typical strawman. I've never met a single Christian that thinks politicians are doing God's work. Maybe you are basing that off msm opinions and mega church tv pastors.
Our founding Christian fathers exercised free will in owning slaves and treating them like animals.
originally posted by: namehere
because the essence of democracy is free will which is a core tenet of abrahamic religions, its why sin is a thing, why you ask forgiveness, etc, .
True words
originally posted by: Turquosie
a reply to: AlexandrosTheGreat
Did the judeochristian mindset also help them to burn witches, go on crusades, and ravage towns of non-beleivers?
Christianity helped pushed society foward because it helped to control the masses. Sure, things got accomplished. But many people died terrible deaths at the hands of christians.
So let's not forget that as well.
Because of fear from the wokesters is why .?
originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: SecrettoSociety
Why is it that the evil communist left can "preach" their beliefs from the pulpits of inner-city churches without criticism?
Trump sure duped the evangelicals into believing he was on a crusade from God , just after he is done running swimsuit competitions & sleeping with pornstars . Trump is as evangelical as Biden is Catholic.
originally posted by: Turquosie
originally posted by: SecrettoSociety
70% of Americans identified as Christian in 2022 . Now if we take 50% of them and assume they vote , that is a huge number. The Christian right votes heavier than most other Christian groups.
originally posted by: network dude
can you show where you got this information from that "Christians" think this way?
Right. So by appearing christian and letting your voters know how "christian" you are can give a huge boost to your numbers. Just look at how Trump became friends with evangelicals.
Unfortunately, religion plays a huge role in how people vote. I'd doubt a buddhist, muslim, or hindu could get elected to POTUS.
Let's face it, many voters aren't very intelligent voters. Those voters tend to vote on simplistic means like religion.
originally posted by: SecrettoSociety
Because of fear from the wokesters is why .?
originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: SecrettoSociety
Why is it that the evil communist left can "preach" their beliefs from the pulpits of inner-city churches without criticism?
originally posted by: chr0naut
originally posted by: The2Billies
a reply to: SecrettoSociety
As a strong Christian I actually don't trust most politicians and find at a minimum 50% of them to be Christophobic and downright hostile toward Christians and Christianity. There is no way I think they are doing the will of God.
I think the Democratic Party and liberals in general have clearly demonstrated they are Christophobic openly and often by the laws/regulations/policies they are forcing on the nation which are clearly anti-Christian in nature and content
for example:
..making it mandatory to put convicted transgender rapists in a women's prison and punishing women with vagina's who complain about being locked in a cell with one. This HAS resulted in verified rape and pregnancies.
..making laws and school policies that mandate teaching 5 year olds about masturbation and middle school children about "fisting/blood play/ and anal sex
...making laws and school policies that mandate teachers lie and deceive parents and encourage children to lie to and deceive their parents if the school thinks the parents may object to what they are doing to their children
...naming more women with a penis "woman of the year" in various occupations, etc. than women with vaginas, thus telling women and girls with vaginas that to become "woman of the year" you must have a penis
...insisting that bombing pregnancy clinics and vandalizing churches is an appropriate way to protest the new laws in the US regarding abortion
...insisting that rioting, looting, burning cities is a type of love for the people that will bring about justice and equity
...insisting and making it law in some states that a healthy person with a uterus carrying a full term 40 week old healthy fetus must be able to abort at will thus killing the viable and healthy infant
... I could go on but you get the gist...
If anything the party in power making these laws is Christophobic and encouraging hate for Christians and Christianity. So NO many Christians these days find many politicians to be the source of the evil covering our nation today.
When it comes to Republicans, there are many, too many of them that support the above and those I also think are Christiophobic and encouraging evil in our nation as part of the "new morality" that is being forced on us with an "you think, speak, do as we say OR ELSE!" behavior by liberals and some Republicans too.
I think Christophobia is as evil and repulsive as Homophobia, Islamophoia, and Transphobia. But many politicians think Christophobia is justifed and behave accordingly. So NO I don't think they are doing the will of God, but rather the will of selfish and evil people.
I think Jesus' mission was about forgiveness for true repentance, and not about making a big thing about others non-adherence to Mosaic law.
Ill ask you this :
originally posted by: DBCowboy
originally posted by: SecrettoSociety
Because of fear from the wokesters is why .?
originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: SecrettoSociety
Why is it that the evil communist left can "preach" their beliefs from the pulpits of inner-city churches without criticism?
You aren't making any sense.
originally posted by: SecrettoSociety
Ill ask you this :
originally posted by: DBCowboy
originally posted by: SecrettoSociety
Because of fear from the wokesters is why .?
originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: SecrettoSociety
Why is it that the evil communist left can "preach" their beliefs from the pulpits of inner-city churches without criticism?
You aren't making any sense.
Have you ever been to an all white southern Baptist church ?
There is plenty of bigotry Ive heard in white Baptist churches down south.
The evangelicals in America are so far up Trump’s rear in support of him it’s ridiculous.
originally posted by: DBCowboy
originally posted by: SecrettoSociety
Ill ask you this :
originally posted by: DBCowboy
originally posted by: SecrettoSociety
Because of fear from the wokesters is why .?
originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: SecrettoSociety
Why is it that the evil communist left can "preach" their beliefs from the pulpits of inner-city churches without criticism?
You aren't making any sense.
Have you ever been to an all white southern Baptist church ?
There is plenty of bigotry Ive heard in white Baptist churches down south.
Not sure what you mean.
Politicians of all types speak from pulpits.
You just seem focused on MAGA types.
Now I've never been to a MAGA church.
Been to many that spent more time hating Trump than anything else.
Do politicians use "God" to get votes?
Sure.
That's their eternal problem though.
Not mine.