Why do Christians Believe that Politicians are doing God’s Work ?

originally posted by: dandandat2
As an Atheist myself I always find it interesting when non-believers try to challenge believers on their adherence to their chosen faith ... as if the non-believer thinks they have some secret knowledge that the believer is missing.

I'm the same way as you in I don't try to debate religion since it is an unfalsifiable argument.

If there is any pushing of Christianity into politics, the answer why it would be done with fervor is obvious. Out of all the cultures in the world, Judeochristian culture was the quickest to produce the idea of the value of every human soul regardless of class and it created the most advanced societies by far while we industrialized and the rest of the world still worked with the plow and natural building materials. And yes, it was indirectly because of the judeochristian mindset that made those things become possible.

a reply to: SecrettoSociety

Your premise is flawed in presuming that all Christians think and feel the same.

There are probably some Christians who think and feel the way you describe, but it's not all Christians. You'll have to ask those Christians, not any Christian or all Christians.

For myself, I don't trust politicians and I don't think there's anyone out there to save us. That's not how our Constitutional Republic is supposed to work. WE are the government... of the people, by the people and for the people. Voting is just one way that the people participate in governance.

This does not violate any of Jesus' teachings.

I have some German belt buckles from WWII. Most of them were cut off the belts themselves with some of the belts remaining. It's pretty gruesome to think about. I suspect they were cut off corpses, but I do not know that for sure. These were from common German soldiers fighting for the Fatherland. They weren't part of the Nazi SS or anything like that. But the buckles all had a saying engraved in brass:

Gott ist mit uns.

You don't need that translated do you? But it does show one thing. Everyone thinks God is on their side.

originally posted by: SecrettoSociety

How could you vote for anyone & still think you are doing god’s will ?

You either vote, become president yourself, or go against the situation and destroy your country.

There are no laws against the fruits of the spirit so everything you do that is approved by God is no harrasment to your people. A country full of people causing chaos must be ruled strictly by its king. A country made peaceful by its citizens does not anger your king.

originally posted by: network dude
can you show where you got this information from that "Christians" think this way?

The church or denomination he was a part of probably considered Romans 13 a mandate. A lot of evangelicals and "full gospel" sects do.

1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

a reply to: SecrettoSociety

As a strong Christian I actually don't trust most politicians and find at a minimum 50% of them to be Christophobic and downright hostile toward Christians and Christianity. There is no way I think they are doing the will of God.

I think the Democratic Party and liberals in general have clearly demonstrated they are Christophobic openly and often by the laws/regulations/policies they are forcing on the nation which are clearly anti-Christian in nature and content

for example:
..making it mandatory to put convicted transgender rapists in a women's prison and punishing women with vagina's who complain about being locked in a cell with one. This HAS resulted in verified rape and pregnancies.
..making laws and school policies that mandate teaching 5 year olds about masturbation and middle school children about "fisting/blood play/ and anal sex
...making laws and school policies that mandate teachers lie and deceive parents and encourage children to lie to and deceive their parents if the school thinks the parents may object to what they are doing to their children
...naming more women with a penis "woman of the year" in various occupations, etc. than women with vaginas, thus telling women and girls with vaginas that to become "woman of the year" you must have a penis
...insisting that bombing pregnancy clinics and vandalizing churches is an appropriate way to protest the new laws in the US regarding abortion
...insisting that rioting, looting, burning cities is a type of love for the people that will bring about justice and equity
...insisting and making it law in some states that a healthy person with a uterus carrying a full term 40 week old healthy fetus must be able to abort at will thus killing the viable and healthy infant
... I could go on but you get the gist...

If anything the party in power making these laws is Christophobic and encouraging hate for Christians and Christianity. So NO many Christians these days find many politicians to be the source of the evil covering our nation today.

When it comes to Republicans, there are many, too many of them that support the above and those I also think are Christiophobic and encouraging evil in our nation as part of the "new morality" that is being forced on us with an "you think, speak, do as we say OR ELSE!" behavior by liberals and some Republicans too.

I think Christophobia is as evil and repulsive as Homophobia, Islamophoia, and Transphobia. But many politicians think Christophobia is justifed and behave accordingly. So NO I don't think they are doing the will of God, but rather the will of selfish and evil people.

It's a relieve to see that I am not the only one being like, huh?

Never got that or similar impressions.

Typical strawman. I've never met a single Christian that thinks politicians are doing God's work. Maybe you are basing that off msm opinions and mega church tv pastors.

originally posted by: TDDAgain
It's a relieve to see that I am not the only one being like, huh?

Never got that or similar impressions.

You know, I can see where that perception can arise.

It's not really so unreasonable for someone in the presence of multiple politically-inclined Christians to be sharing their thoughts.

Like most people, religion appears in the normal conduct depending on their posture... and posturing for other Christians to see (sadly) ... they will often labor to include a religious sentiment, or inspirations (as they see it) thought, into their words... probably as much for their own spirituality as for others. It's not really a criticism.

However, the effect on the neutral observer might be to infer that "these folks are all religious nuts" and take their otherwise normal attempts at metaphor as absolute.

Also, Christians are normal people too... and just like a sports fan who can't keep from talking sports, or a motor-head who sees the world in engine-metaphors, people get "political theater" crazy - (which is why I often joke about politics is probably managed by Ed McMahan of the WWW/WWF/WWE or whatever... the plot-line theatrics effect is the same.)

Perhaps though, ATS members in this thread have demonstrated fairly well that Politics and "God's work" is much more than the surface of what some partisan speakers say...

I imagine someone in the Clergy wisely offering to those who say "He/She is doing God's work" - Let God judge their work...

because the essence of democracy is free will which is a core tenet of abrahamic religions, its why sin is a thing, why you ask forgiveness, etc, .

originally posted by: SecrettoSociety

... snip ...

Most politicians work for the other side.

originally posted by: The2Billies
a reply to: SecrettoSociety

As a strong Christian I actually don't trust most politicians and find at a minimum 50% of them to be Christophobic and downright hostile toward Christians and Christianity. There is no way I think they are doing the will of God.

I think the Democratic Party and liberals in general have clearly demonstrated they are Christophobic openly and often by the laws/regulations/policies they are forcing on the nation which are clearly anti-Christian in nature and content

for example:
..making it mandatory to put convicted transgender rapists in a women's prison and punishing women with vagina's who complain about being locked in a cell with one. This HAS resulted in verified rape and pregnancies.
..making laws and school policies that mandate teaching 5 year olds about masturbation and middle school children about "fisting/blood play/ and anal sex
...making laws and school policies that mandate teachers lie and deceive parents and encourage children to lie to and deceive their parents if the school thinks the parents may object to what they are doing to their children
...naming more women with a penis "woman of the year" in various occupations, etc. than women with vaginas, thus telling women and girls with vaginas that to become "woman of the year" you must have a penis
...insisting that bombing pregnancy clinics and vandalizing churches is an appropriate way to protest the new laws in the US regarding abortion
...insisting that rioting, looting, burning cities is a type of love for the people that will bring about justice and equity
...insisting and making it law in some states that a healthy person with a uterus carrying a full term 40 week old healthy fetus must be able to abort at will thus killing the viable and healthy infant
... I could go on but you get the gist...

If anything the party in power making these laws is Christophobic and encouraging hate for Christians and Christianity. So NO many Christians these days find many politicians to be the source of the evil covering our nation today.

When it comes to Republicans, there are many, too many of them that support the above and those I also think are Christiophobic and encouraging evil in our nation as part of the "new morality" that is being forced on us with an "you think, speak, do as we say OR ELSE!" behavior by liberals and some Republicans too.

I think Christophobia is as evil and repulsive as Homophobia, Islamophoia, and Transphobia. But many politicians think Christophobia is justifed and behave accordingly. So NO I don't think they are doing the will of God, but rather the will of selfish and evil people.

I think Jesus' mission was about forgiveness for true repentance, and not about making a big thing about others non-adherence to Mosaic law.

originally posted by: incoserv

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: SecrettoSociety

Because every tumble of the domino is assumed to facilitate the end of times, there are no coincidences in the grand calculus of the "ineffable plan". Even the most depraved and sinister of mechanisms can't resist participating in the cascade of destiny. Hypothetically, of course.

Scripture tells us that even the kingdom of darkness itself was manipulate into fulfilling the plans and purposes of God.

1 Cor. 2:7-8 ~ ... but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory; the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory...

That almost sounds like the equivalent of a false flag operation. Hypothetically.

originally posted by: network dude
can you show where you got this information from that "Christians" think this way?

70% of Americans identified as Christian in 2022 . Now if we take 50% of them and assume they vote , that is a huge number. The Christian right votes heavier than most other Christian groups.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: SecrettoSociety

Charity and Socialism are 2 VERY DIFFERENT things.

Now, you mentioned it yourself.... people, yes people, vote for what they think is the lesser of 2 evils.

Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Atheists, Agnostics are all people.


So, let's get real. People vote for the Party or Side that is going to screw them over less or stay out of their lives. Just because you are a Christian doesn't mean you are going to "not vote" for whatever candidates you think are less invasive than what the other side is going to do to you.

What is the hang up on "Christians" specifically here?

I have no hang ups over Christians in general as I myself have Christ in my life from the occult side of spirituality. Im anti-religion.
My question is a philosophical & theological one only .

originally posted by: incoserv
a reply to: SecrettoSociety

If we lived in a perfect world, it'd be different. We don't. We lived in a world corrupted by sin, wickedness and selfish ambition.

There's no biblical mandate for total disengagement. Paul did say that magistrates are appointed by God for the maintenance of order. This didn't mean that all politicians do "God's work" (whatever that means); it means that systems of government are in place in human society for the benefit of society, or at least should be. It doesn't mean that every single magistrate is godly. There are instances when tyranny should be resisted, and it falls on the shoulders of good and decent men to resist.

One of the marks of the Christian faith is the liberty that the scriptures grant to disciples of Christ, liberty to interpret and practice certain non-essential issue according to one's light, understanding and convictions. There are some things that theologically and biblically non-negotiable, but things like you mention are not clearly delineated in scripture. You are essentially pulling laws and rules out of your butt.

If you feel the conviction to disengage, I can respect that. If one feels the conviction to engage for the betterment of society, I respect that, as well.

Granted, making an idol out of politics and politicians is sin, and the extreme religious right has been guilty of that. I've always said that the "Moral Majority" was neither very moral nor was it a majority. Too often, church leaders look to the temporal power of politics instead the eternal sovereignty of God to resolve their issues, making pleas and paying obeisance to the people in power instead of the True Power, but to place your own convictions (if indeed they are your true heartfelt convictions) on the entire body of believers is as both arrogant and unscriptural as their opposite extreme.

You would do well to understand 2,000 years of church history, where the catholic (small "c'" not Roman) church had gotten it wrong and where is gotten it right. There certainly is no single one-size-fits-all answer, as you seem to think that there should be.

:

Paul was speaking about the ways of men & their rules , not God’s.

originally posted by: incoserv
a reply to: SecrettoSociety

If we lived in a perfect world, it'd be different. We don't. We lived in a world corrupted by sin, wickedness and selfish ambition.

There's no biblical mandate for total disengagement. Paul did say that magistrates are appointed by God for the maintenance of order. This didn't mean that all politicians do "God's work" (whatever that means); it means that systems of government are in place in human society for the benefit of society, or at least should be. It doesn't mean that every single magistrate is godly. There are instances when tyranny should be resisted, and it falls on the shoulders of good and decent men to resist.

One of the marks of the Christian faith is the liberty that the scriptures grant to disciples of Christ, liberty to interpret and practice certain non-essential issue according to one's light, understanding and convictions. There are some things that theologically and biblically non-negotiable, but things like you mention are not clearly delineated in scripture. You are essentially pulling laws and rules out of your butt.

If you feel the conviction to disengage, I can respect that. If one feels the conviction to engage for the betterment of society, I respect that, as well.

Granted, making an idol out of politics and politicians is sin, and the extreme religious right has been guilty of that. I've always said that the "Moral Majority" was neither very moral nor was it a majority. Too often, church leaders look to the temporal power of politics instead the eternal sovereignty of God to resolve their issues, making pleas and paying obeisance to the people in power instead of the True Power, but to place your own convictions (if indeed they are your true heartfelt convictions) on the entire body of believers is as both arrogant and unscriptural as their opposite extreme.

You would do well to understand 2,000 years of church history, where the catholic (small "c'" not Roman) church had gotten it wrong and where is gotten it right. There certainly is no single one-size-fits-all answer, as you seem to think that there should be.

:

So your political wants are ok if you believe they align with God’s ?
We are not to judge or be drawn into the world’s ways outside of what is the minimum.
Christ said to not be of this world.
Our government is not theocratic, so how do you yoke yourself to Trump or Biden as a Christian .
There is no degrees of right & wrong .

a reply to: AlexandrosTheGreat

Did the judeochristian mindset also help them to burn witches, go on crusades, and ravage towns of non-beleivers?

Christianity helped pushed society foward because it helped to control the masses. Sure, things got accomplished. But many people died terrible deaths at the hands of christians.

So let's not forget that as well.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: SecrettoSociety

Because Christians pay taxes like everyone else, and have a right to expect their representatives to do the job they were hired to do. "Representatives" in this case refers to politicians and bureaucrats.

This country is not a dictatorship or a monarchy, it is a representative republic. It REQUIRES its citizens to be involved, because they ARE the government. If they don't get involved, they have no republic left.

Christians didn’t vote in Rome , but payed taxes for hundreds of years until Constantine made Christianity legal .
Jesus was anti-political and stood apart from the ways of men as he taught his followers to do the same .
You actually think Jesus would vote today if He was here now in our timeframe ?