The Jesus of the Bible was a communist. If you aren't a communist, then you are anti-Christ.

a reply to: ltrz2025

P.S.: Friend, debate is clearly NOT your thing, you are literally incurring in a rhetorical suicide with all this silliness that you mistake for arguments.

No, debate is what I do, it seems you don’t like what I have to say. Jesus was not an advocate of communism, and you have misinterpreted the teachings of Christ.
What do you mean “incurring in a rhetorical suicide?” May I interpret that as you not liking my argument? You met disagree, but how about you telling me why you disagree with my argument instead of making sone statement about suicide?
My entire argument is about why Jesus” teaching are not communist. Further I referenced the Apostle Paul in his letters. Specifically

King James Bible For every man shall bear his own burden.

biblehub.com...
For karmic law IS spiritual law l, and my guess is that Jesus understood that perfectly.

King James Bible For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

biblehub.com...
It seems as if you are not interested in hearing another view of the meaning of scripture than yours.
If you sound like to refute my position on why Jesus was not an adviocate of communism, then by all means let’s hear it.
Further, there is evidence of communist infiltration of the church in order to achieve subversion and promote communist doctrine

Father Yakunin, now a deputy of the Russian Supreme Soviet's Commission on Freedom of Religion, has examined top-secret monthly reports from the KGB Administration for Ideological Subversion. In an exclusive interview with Reader's Digest, he stated: 'The KGB had a plan to penetrate and manipulate the WCC. Orthodox priests who were WCC delegates were often KGB agents acting on Communist Party orders.'

Agent "Kuznetsov." How effective were they? 'In my view,' Yakunin said, 'the WCC's left-radical activities helped the Soviet block spread communist ideology in Africa, North and South America and the Far East.'

www.pravoslavieto.com...

Astyanax, I need to re-write you my response because it was deleted by a mod.....

originally posted by: Astyanax
I am saying something much simpler. Not all Christians regard Scripture as the ultimate authority.

That doesn't make them less apostates. A person who breaks a government's law is a criminal, whether he agrees with the law or not. The same with religious law. If you don't abide by it, you are going to hell.

originally posted by: Astyanax
Really? I thought religion was about making life more bearable. Or about lessening the fear of death. Or giving us hope of reuniting with our departed loved ones.

Not even close. To follow a religion, particularly the Christian one, it's EXTEREMELLY difficult. They are continuously repressing their desires and emotions, it's supper hard. One of my closest friends is a palliative care nurse in an oncology hospital, she sees people dying on a daily basis, and I've discussed endlessly with her regarding the after life. Something is very clear: the Christian people are, 99% of the times, always terrified before dying, they are afraid of judgement, going to hell, because, as said, being a REAL Christian is a SUPER HARD THING to accomplish, and the fear of hell is ALWAYS present. That's why this religion has been so successful.

originally posted by: Astyanax
What do the Scriptures say about apostasy, then? Any idea?

Read Matthew.

originally posted by: Astyanax
You've said that many times but though many different positions with respect to religion are represented on this thread, you haven't got a single person to agree with you. Perhaps it's time to accept that, though you were right about the communist character of early Christianity, you might possibly be wrong about this.

This is not true. By looking at the stars of my OP, at least 16 people here agreed with my OP. However, I'm not really sure how the star system works, but I guess this was it. Sure, not many, but this is ATS, and you described the conservative Americans quite well. ANYWAY, whether people agreed or not with me, that doesn't make my arguments any less or more valid. Argumentation is not a popularity test, simply look at the conditions of the world, everyone taking a genetic experiment because the TV or the government said so.

originally posted by: Astyanax
Ah! Thank you for that. I get it now: you're one of the Elect. All explained. No more questions, Your Honour.

I don't understand how you reach this conclusion. I said many times that I'm not a Christian, that I don't follow its rules (some I agree with though), and that if the Christian faith is true, I'm going to hell, with you and most of the people here. I'll see you all there then, and you can tell me if I was wrong or not.

How I found God and my salvation through Jesus and how I became "saved"
Spoiler alert: it had nothing to do with church attendance.... And definitely nothing to do with communism.

I grew up hearing and seeing the same old song and dance about Jesus. You're going to hell for this, and your going to hell for that. Unless I walked some straight and perfect line, "I wasn't saved, and was going to hell." This did not track with me at all as a teen and up into my thirties. But I knew there was something there because of a few random people's stories about their experiences with God and "salvation."

When I found God I didn't even know I was looking for him, because I thought I already knew him. Growing up in church I had heard it all. And thought I knew who God was, who Jesus was, and who the Holy Spirit was. I had read the Bible off and on all throughout my life. I had read all of it cover to cover over the course of my life and actually boasted in the thought that I knew the Bibe.
One day in the summer of 2015 I decided to pick up the Bible and read it cover to cover. That was my only intent when I started here.
It took about a year to get through it. About halfway through it was like a fire was starting to grow inside me. The more I read, the more I pressed forward through the Word, the more this fire seemed to grow.
I finished the bible about the same time 2016. Immediately, as I read those last words, the second I closed that book, my first thought was.......I want to read that again. It had actually been like a journey I had been on, and I was instantly read to go again.

The thing I really noticed after completing the Bible and after a few more times of reading it I saw the thousands and thousands upon thousands of lies I had heard my whole life about what it was "the Bible actually says."
I saw that even though I had been raised in church, that there was SO much never even mentioned. Important stuff! But why would the church keep these things out? They were vital...

For instance, I had heard the Holy Spirit many many times. But no real explaining on what The HS's role is, or how any of that aspect works.

I found Him on my own. Following the word, and asking God the hard questions exactly like the author has done here.
There was a topic that came up one day that sent me into a fierce Bible study. I spent a few months trying to disprove what someone else had said (a pastor btw) about the Holy Spirit. I had even formulated a debate against what he had said. I had studied on it until I was satisfied with the conclusion that this dude was wrong. I was sure of it.
But I knew that I could possibly be wrong. I took it into prayer, said Lord, I'm almost positive I've got this pegged but only you, Lord, can show me Your truth. and I said, Lord, plz show me your truth...

And boy did I get an answer... But what happened is for another post...


In the end What I've learned is, I was already saved by Jesus. The work had already been done. All I had to do was accept this and realize that I was in a fight that wasn't even mine. How hell am I supposed to be responsible for fighting an enemy that is almost as powerful as God, and then God himself.
I realized this was not my fight actually, and we are all bystanders. But when I put my faith in the fact that Jesus was the son of God and he fixed the curse of death. My sins were already forgiven, but to obtain anything of God I needed to take some steps first.

I confessed who I really was in my sins (I owned up to my mistakes). I asked for forgiveness in a moment where I was on my knees, and as I asked for forgiveness, this powerful whisper somewhere deep within my mind,or soul said, "You are forgiven. Now go and wash yourself."
I was baptized with water in a river shortly there after.
This was just an act of faith and not what God meant by "go and wash yourself."
I had learned of my salvation...

What I learned is, it had nothing to do with the flesh, or laws, or any of the noise I'd heard my whole life. I found it in God's Word. And this was only the dawn of insight.
You see, many people like to use God and the fear of hell to control people. We all know this, and it is no exceptions in this. They use that law relentlessly to control as well. But what I've learned about the law is:

I am free from the law... Jesus broke us free.
Instead of any law, He simply has asked me to love everyone I come across. He didn't say "like them." Just love them. That's it! That was the only requirement that has been laid on me. And I know this because of the non stop study of the scriptures.

It's not a matter of don't eat this, don't drink that, don't touch this. Its simply love others. As long as I stay within these parameters, "I am doing well."
The rest is what the Holy Spirit is for....

In life we're supposed to find God and live with God. God is Almighty, God does not need help of tiny humans. To take the bull by the horns you need to go in the field where possible dangerous animals are. Either way, many have been injured by a bull before. Storms are set in tea cups and hay is taken on forks.

It's a nice game, eventually the beech marten finds its way to the car to break the brake cables.

Going nowhere you stay at the rest at home.

originally posted by: Astyanax

Not even close. To follow a religion, particularly the Christian one, it's EXTEREMELLY difficult. They are continuously repressing their desires and emotions, it's supper hard. One of my closest friends is a palliative care nurse in an oncology hospital, she sees people dying on a daily basis, and I've discussed endlessly with her regarding the after life. Something is very clear: the Christian people are, 99% of the times, always terrified before dying, they are afraid of judgement, going to hell, because, as said, being a real Christian is a SUPER HARD THING to accomplish.

I can tell by the way you started that statement you've given us a Tell; you're not a Christian, rather simply trying to pervert the gospel and drive people away from it by sowing doubt with bad interpretations

You're an Apostate it seems, if you ever believed to begin with but Ive got the feeling you've always been like this and you're a big downer to friends and family. Always bringing people down by trying to throw what you assume to be the systems and legalities of their beliefs...

Im sure youre not invited to many occasions held by friends and family.

You started this thread off by calling everyone out that believes in Jesus but not Communism.

WWJD?

Is this you're moment in the temple, like Jesus you're flipping tables of money lenders? Jesus only did that once, otherwise when he met with unbelievers, how did he talk to them?

Not anything like you have said, certainly...almost as if you have an agenda or are just stubborn with an anger problem

Matthew 7:3-5 New International Version 3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye

I hope you chill out and pray a little bit today and make it a habit.

a reply to: ltrz2025

and that if the Christian faith is true, I'm going to hell,

What some of us here are telling you is that you may not be correctly interpreting the nature of the teachings of Christ and his intention. It seems that you are implying that in order to be Christian, one has to sell all his material goods to follow him or go to hell. This is one of thee most ridiculous assertions I’ve ever seen about Christian theology, and it is simply untrue.
In the context of things, it is attachment to material wealth that is the problem, not having it. He also is not admonishing us to have nothing and to rely on handouts from others, but to rely on God, which is not the same thing as relying on the state to to provide for us, which is what the practice of communism is, and others here have already pointed out.
If no one worked and everybody relied on state welfare, it would be an imminent collapse of society. Communism as practiced on the practice of forced redistribution of wealth. As I says before that is neither charitable nor fair. It is fact that the more we rely on the welfare state, the less people are inclined to work hard voluntarily.
Not only that, but the central premise of communism as practiced by governments of a centrally controlled economy and the means of production is neither effective nor desirable, as we saw the result of that in the demise of the old Soviet empire. If you doubt me, read the history.

originally posted by: Butterfinger
I can tell by the way you started that statement you've given us a Tell; you're not a Christian, rather simply trying to pervert the gospel and drive people away from it by sowing doubt with bad interpretations

You're an Apostate it seems, if you ever believed to begin with but Ive got the feeling you've always been like this and you're a big downer to friends and family. Always bringing people down by trying to throw what you assume to be the systems and legalities of their beliefs... Im sure youre not invited to many occasions held by friends and family. You started this thread off by calling everyone out that believes in Jesus but not Communism.

Is this you're moment in the temple, like Jesus you're flipping tables of money lenders? Jesus only did that once, otherwise when he met with unbelievers, how did he talk to them? Not anything like you have said, certainly...almost as if you have an agenda or are just stubborn with an anger problem

I hope you know that one of Jesus's most important commandments resides in not judging others, right? Well, your post is nothing but a big judgement towards me, my friends, my family, and everyone who doesn't share your interpretation. Lol, very "Christian" of you.

Anyway, all these opinions and fantasies about me don't change the words of the Bible. I keep looking for arguments, but people keep insisting in giving me their personal opinions, like they mattered... I'm not an apostate because I never had the Christian faith. And I'm not angry at all. Maybe because English is like my 5th language and I don't manage subtilties, or maybe just for the weight of my arguments, make you believe that I'm angry, but not at all.

The passage of Jesus getting angry at the temple with the money lenders (Matthew 21:12-13) is a very interesting one. Because it contradicts Jesus' own commandment of loving your enemies or putting the other cheek. Elements like this is what led me to believe that if Jesus ever existed, he was more like a spiritual master, a guru, than the actual God, like the Bible says. That he had flaws and made mistakes, and that his words were not absolute as Bible claims. But well, for the Christian faith, he is God and the key to heaven.

And Jesus was kind with the sinners, but the law to get to heaven is still the law. If it's a party with an open door, what's the point?...

a reply to: AOx6179

No one finds God on their own. Jesus said no one can come to him unless the Father draws him. Before the person even knows it God has already been gently tugging at them.

And you do need a teacher in order to understand the word. You don't discover the truth on your own. The Christianity of the Bible is not a solitary faith. It is a faith shared by many and they are commanded to meet together and incite each other to love and fine works.

a reply to: ltrz2025

and that if the Christian faith is true, I'm going to hell, with you and most of the people here. I'll see you all there then, and you can tell me if I was wrong or not.

This is a lie. Nothing has been determined yet. Ie. No ones been condemned as of this moment. Except the devil and some fallen angles.

You are loved, Ltrz2025...

originally posted by: randomuser
a reply to: AOx6179

No one finds God on their own. Jesus said no one can come to him unless the Father draws him. Before the person even knows it God has already been gently tugging at them.

And you do need a teacher in other to understand the word. You don't discover the truth on your own. The Christianity of the Bible is not a solitary faith either. It is a faith shared by many and they are commanded to meet together and incite each other to love and fine works.

I found it through Jesus. He was the door I walked through. It's a journey.

And you do need a teacher in other to understand the word. You don't discover the truth on your own

Correct, you need a guide. Holy Spirit is the answer youre looking for here.

originally posted by: AOx6179
a reply to: ltrz2025

and that if the Christian faith is true, I'm going to hell, with you and most of the people here. I'll see you all there then, and you can tell me if I was wrong or not.

This is a lie. Nothing has been determined yet. Ie. No ones been condemned as of this moment. Except the devil and some fallen angles.

You are loved, Ltrz2025...

Ok, good to read that I have a chance then!

originally posted by: ltrz2025

originally posted by: AOx6179
a reply to: ltrz2025

and that if the Christian faith is true, I'm going to hell, with you and most of the people here. I'll see you all there then, and you can tell me if I was wrong or not.

This is a lie. Nothing has been determined yet. Ie. No ones been condemned as of this moment. Except the devil and some fallen angles.

You are loved, Ltrz2025...

Ok, good to read that I have a chance then!

Please stop being so childish. Remember you started this. You're not handling it well at all.

originally posted by: AOx6179
a reply to: ltrz2025

and that if the Christian faith is true, I'm going to hell, with you and most of the people here. I'll see you all there then, and you can tell me if I was wrong or not.

This is a lie. Nothing has been determined yet. Ie. No ones been condemned as of this moment. Except the devil and some fallen angles.

You are loved, Ltrz2025...

Apparently they never heard of the people who do not know jesus getting a chance to know him and accept him after they died in ignorance of his gift. There will be a white throne judgement for all even Death,and the demons/devils in hell already.Try to live a good life,treat others fair,and try to stop being so sinful and you will be alright.

a reply to: ltrz2025

“Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common.

Again, you take a biblical passage and use it to interpret in the definition of communism that you believe in. The true spiritual meaning is that all that is here belongs to God, they is everything in the materiel universe is God’. God is the creator of everything that exists, so in that regard we do not own anything. But again, we come down to the bedrock of reality. What we produced is by our efforts. It does not mean that someone else has a right to take what one has done by effort. Forced redistribution of wealth(communism as practiced today) is not what Jesus advocated for nor a voluntary submission to such a forced government practice of forcibly taking that which a man lawfully worked for and giving it to others in a centrally controlled economy as practiced by communist governments.
I remember when Marxist Obama promoted the concept of collective salvation through the collective welfare state. That is what he meant. It is a perversion of the teaching of Christ. Michelle O also chimed in on this by repeating the Marxist ideal of giving up one’s pie and giving it to others “so others can have more”.
That is neither equitable nor just, but simply an adherence to Marxist ideology.

a reply to: AOx6179

I just thanked you honestly, and you call me childish?... For Christ sake, what are you guys drinking today? Can you share?...

originally posted by: ltrz2025
a reply to: AOx6179

I just thanked you honestly, and you call me childish?... For Christ sake, what are you guys drinking today? Can you share?...

I actually thought you were being sarcastic. It's youre entire theme here. But I do apologize, if you were actually being sincere. It's hard to tell with you.
But yes, no one has been judged just yet.

Ps. There's no thanks in there.
You're just making stuff up completely now.

God is gently calling to all the gentle readers. He is also very patient. He is greater than our hearts and knows all things. Even the right time, and when and how a person will respond to his call.

To Saul the Lord Jesus appeared outright and his glory was so much that it blinded the zealot. He was on his way to Damascus breathing threat and murder against the new faith, which he, as a learned Pharisee, taught at the very feet of Gamaliel, one of the great teachers of Judaism, considered to be an apostasy of the truth.

When he converted he saw many others like him who were zealous for God, but not according to accurate knowledge.

I see many people with a zeal for God. But not according to accurate knowledge.

"For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to accurate knowledge."-Romans 10:2.

a reply to: ltrz2025

We can admonish each other from a place of caring. If I didnt care about you I wouldnt have been in this thread.

Youve admitted that you are not Christian so what are you doing?

I can say "Get behind me Satan" to you with all the authority of Him, as you are not a believe and simply here to post hateful uninformed opinions of Christians.

For all we know youre just another bot.

Why not start another thread on Muslims, Sikhs, or Buddists?

a reply to: AOx6179

Enlightenment lies not in agreement nor in disagreement but in not letting yourself be corrupted by the world.

Romans 12:2 KJV And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

originally posted by: AOx6179

originally posted by: randomuser
a reply to: AOx6179

No one finds God on their own. Jesus said no one can come to him unless the Father draws him. Before the person even knows it God has already been gently tugging at them.

And you do need a teacher in other to understand the word. You don't discover the truth on your own. The Christianity of the Bible is not a solitary faith either. It is a faith shared by many and they are commanded to meet together and incite each other to love and fine works.

I found it through Jesus. He was the door I walked through. It's a journey.

And you do need a teacher in other to understand the word. You don't discover the truth on your own

Correct, you need a guide. Holy Spirit is the answer youre looking for here.

You answered correctly. It is the holy spirit that guides us in all the ways of the truth. Now notice how it operates on God's servants:

"So the spirit said to Philip: “Go over and approach this chariot.” Philip ran alongside and heard him reading aloud Isaiah the prophet, and he said: “Do you actually know what you are reading?” He said: “Really, how could I ever do so unless someone guided me?”-Acts 8:29-31.

So it is really God's preachers and teachers that his holy spirit moves to approach sincere-hearted ones to teach them. And as they reveal God's word, it is God's spirit that motivates the heart and makes the kingdom seed grow in the listener who becomes a believer.

In another place we are told:

"For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach?  How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out? Just as it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!”-Romans 10:13.

So those who declare the good news of good things are the ones that have been sent forth to teach the people about Jehovah's name.

When you find the truth you find the need to do so. It is a requirement of salvation.

In fact Paul said:

"Now if I am declaring the good news, it is no reason for me to boast, for necessity is laid upon me. Really, woe to me if I do not declare the good news!"-1 Corinthians 9:16.

The angels are involved in a harvesting work among humankind as reapers. The preaching and teaching of God's witnesses around the earth is being directed by the invisible spirit angels. Are you working alongside them? Are you working shoulder to shoulder with God's fellow workers?

All of these things are part of true Christianity.