The Jesus of the Bible was a communist. If you aren't a communist, then you are anti-Christ.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: ltrz2025

Ah, I see you've returned. You didn't trouble to answer my question earlier, so I'll repeat it.

You said to someone or other,

You are a Christian, and you are voluntarily chopping your holy book as you want and going against your church due to your personal opinion.

This, like all your other posts in this thread, equates Christianity with unquestioning literal belief in and obedience to the Scriptures. I suppose that you -- Christian or not -- were raised in a literalist American Protestant family or community that regarded only 'Bible believing' as 'true' Christianity. In fact, this is a minority view among Christians -- even in America, where it flourishes most prolifically, only three out of ten Christians hold to it.

It is equally rare in the history of Christianity. Origen was among the early Church Fathers who insisted that parts of the Bible should not be taken literally. Up to the fifth century, Christians argued over which scriptures were canonical and which were 'heterodox'; the argument didn't really end until the Westminster Confession of 1646, which demoted the Apocrypha from the canon. In the West, prior to the fifteenth century, few Christians ever read Scripture at all; the Roman Catholic Church discouraged it. Only with Luther and the Reformation did the idea of Scripture as the final authority take hold. It did so, of course, in opposition to the equally spurious doctrine of Papal infallibility.

Early Christians were certainly communists, though without the capital C. This is explicitly stated in Acts 4:32-37. According to this book by a professional Bible scholar, the practice of holding all property in common and acting in effective obedience to the Marxist principle 'to each according to his needs, from each according to his ability' continued into the second century AD and helped the early Christians survive the Siege of Jerusalem in 70AD.

Most ATS members are drawn from the American right wing, tending as a group more towards extremism than moderation. They are part of a constituency that identifies as Christian and predominantly as 'Bible believing', but in fact their Christianity is largely of their own devising: they interpret Scripture according to their own convenience. I am not of their ilk, and I salute your audacity in trolling them -- a few of them, at least, richly deserve it. But I think you ought to spread your net wider, so as also to gather up the hypocrites who don't insist on Biblical literalism but whose 'Christianity' is utterly self-serving none the less. If you need ammunition, read the history of Christianity.

This really looks like a commie recruiting thread.

originally posted by: ltrz2025

originally posted by: yuppa
Ahem. What covenant does that fit under? The OT covenant was specifically for Gods people AKA hebrews/jews. They had laws specific to them. the NT covenant is for actual christians.

Read my OP again, all I did was to simply transcribe segments of the New Testament.

originally posted by: yuppa
The catholic church has mixed people up by not teaching the bible is 2 seperate books in one and each book is specified to a specific people. Jesus fulfilled the OT covenant and then the NT covenant was born for the christians,and for his chosen people if they desired to follow it.

I agree with your point of view, but I'm not a Christian, so I'm "allowed" to have that opinion. You don't. You are a Christian, and you are voluntarily chopping your holy book as you want and going against your church due to your personal opinion. That is apostasy. Maybe you are right and the church and the bible are wrong, but how do we prove that?

Then, if your holy book and church are corrupted, how can you have faith on what it tells you about Jesus then? I wouldn't like to be in your shoes then friend. It's quite hard to be a good Christian, many sins to avoid and very strict rules to follow, but it's even worse when you don't know what God's law truly is, when what you have has been "corrupted". Sorry for that, must not be easy.

I REBUKE YOU for your manipulations and accusations. I am not a catholic.I have faith in Jesus promise and the 3 things we should do to live a good life. we are not perfect and we will still sin from time to time,but under GRACE we will be forgiven if we desire and ask.
I forgive you for your slander and vile accusations about me though. The MODS might not though.

a reply to: AOx6179

This really looks like a commie recruiting thread.

What does The Acts of the Apostles look like?

Acts 4:32-37

Now the whole group of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one claimed private ownership of any possessions, but everything they owned was held in common. With great power the apostles gave their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all. There was not a needy person among them, for as many as owned lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold. They laid it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need. There was a Levite, a native of Cyprus, Joseph, to whom the apostles gave the name Barnabas (which means "son of encouragement"). He sold a field that belonged to him, then brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Is it becoming a habit to call cheat on every scoring that isn't in your favor?

a reply to: Astyanax

1 "Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. 3 For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, 4 but the wise took flasks of oil with their lamps. 5 As the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and slept. 6 But at midnight there was a cry, 'Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.' 7 Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.' 9 But the wise answered, saying, 'Since there will not be enough for us and for you, go rather to the dealers and buy for yourselves.' 10 And while they were going to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut. 11 Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, 'Lord, lord, open to us.' 12 But he answered, 'Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.' 13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour. (Matthew 25:1-13, ESV)

a reply to: Terpene

Hahaha, trying to get that comedy back up, I see. You gave the test, and admitted that you didn't expect me to be able to answer it. In other words, you fixed the test.

I didn't accuse you; you admitted it.



TheRedneck

a reply to: AOx6179

Relevance? Did you mistake that passage for an economic teaching?

Be warned, friend: when it comes to Bible quotation, I can wipe the floor with any Bible-bashing Fundamentalist. Remember what they say: the Devil can quote Scripture. Anyway, I'm not on this thread to argue a position on the OP's claim, so you can rest easy. By your lights I am no Christian, but even less am I a Communist.

You asked for a Bible lesson here.

14 "For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted to them his property. 15 To one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. 16 He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them, and he made five talents more. 17 So also he who had the two talents made two talents more. 18 But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master's money. 19 Now after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them. 20 And he who had received the five talents came forward, bringing five talents more, saying, 'Master, you delivered to me five talents; here, I have made five talents more.' 21 His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.' 22 And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, 'Master, you delivered to me two talents; here, I have made two talents more.' 23 His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.' 24 He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, 'Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed, 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here, you have what is yours.' 26 But his master answered him, 'You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' (Matthew 25:14-30, ESV)

a reply to: Astyanax

Let's dance

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: AOx6179

This really looks like a commie recruiting thread.

What does The Acts of the Apostles look like?

Acts 4:32-37

Now the whole group of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one claimed private ownership of any possessions, but everything they owned was held in common. With great power the apostles gave their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all. There was not a needy person among them, for as many as owned lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold. They laid it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need. There was a Levite, a native of Cyprus, Joseph, to whom the apostles gave the name Barnabas (which means "son of encouragement"). He sold a field that belonged to him, then brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

The word you're looking for is family. They became a family. Not commies.

Try and Sell me more of your commie propaganda.

a reply to: AOx6179

Yes, I know that one. You like parables, don't you? Of course you do, because they can be made to mean anything the interpreter wants them to. Like the Parable of the Virgins you earlier referred to, this one is commonly interpreted as referring to spiritual treasure, laid up in Heaven. I don't necessarily buy that myself; Jesus was pretty cool with money, for all that he seems to have been perennially broke. Obviously his investment strategies didn't work out so well -- he couldn't multiply talents any better than the 'wicked and slothful' servant. Good thing he had so many rich friends, eh?

When are we getting to the Sermon on the Mount? Matthew 6:19-21 sinks the stinking claims of the Prosperity Gospel.

None of what you have posted contradicts or disproved the fact, recorded in the Acts of the Apostles and contradicted by no-one, that the early Christians were communist in their economic arrangements.

a reply to: Astyanax

The parables were an answer to the question of who's going to hell and who's not. The parables I shared spoke of exactly that.

As for your commie pitch again, you can call it whatever you want. I reject that premise entirely.
Show me different...


Added: before we start tho: you know where my faith is. What is yours? It'll be a more even ground if I know what's most precious to you too.
Or do you just hate Christians and love communism?

To the thread

For those who don't know, this was when Mary M poured the alabaster on Jesus.

44 Then turning toward the woman he said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave me no water for my feet, but she has wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. 45 You gave me no kiss, but from the time I came in she has not ceased to kiss my feet. 46 You did not anoint my head with oil, but she has anointed my feet with ointment. 47 Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven-for she loved much. But he who is forgiven little, loves little." And he said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."
49 Then those who were at table with him began to say among themselves, "Who is this, who even forgives sins?" 50 And he said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace." (Luke 7:44-50, ESV)

Does this look like salvation through communism?

We're all births making our way to the indefinite and destined.

a reply to: Astyanax

Early Christians and Jesus and what He taught are two different things.

There are and have been numerous sects of Christianity based on what people thought Jesus was all about. Early communities may have lived in communes; certainly Jamestown tried it because they believed like the OP that it was Godly. Jamestown also nearly starved to death and had to change to personal property in order to survive.

It it also true and has been pointed out endlessly that there are numerous examples of men of means who found favor in God's eyes and were saved. It is also true that the teachings of Jesus are in terms of personal property and ownership and even wealth. All of these would cease to have all contextual meaning in a communist society that had no concepts of ownership or property or wealth.

originally posted by: ltrz2025
a reply to: DBCowboy

cognitive dissonance

Day #3 of the thread. Interesting that I'm about to say this on the third day of this...

I'd like to stand up and applaud the author and give him the awesome credit for what's been done by his orchestra of words and claims here.
What you've done here is actually quite amazing and you're right, I was clouded in anger over the statements you made, but what you did was push me right into the arms of my faith.
Once I stepped back, let go of myself, and took a fresh look at this I realized something that came like a bolt of lightning.
You have opened a door, that not even you can close. A door that you yourself have opened up and rolled out a red carpet of every parameter necessary for one to fully lay out the gospel of Jesus Christ. And within the parameters have allowed us to fully explain how someone can achieve salvation through Jesus Christ. Bruh... Thank you...
You have made it possible for people to actually see what the gospel really is and what the scriptures actually say. There is no end to this now. This room you've opened up will be here until the internet goes, or this site goes. Either way this is a rare and golden opportunity to discuss and share the true message of Jesus Christ and what it means to be a Christian.

(Stands up and applauds)

I am however over the personal attacks going on. Their pointless. Just words. So I'm going to continue, but I'm only sticking to the topic itself.

Once again, I am grateful for this open ended opportunity.

a reply to: ketsuko

one of the more extreme where the ranters who believed commiting sin brought them closer to god.. the true levellers/true diggers where closer to socialism.. the USA is closer to the leveller version of Christianity than either ranters or true levellers..

ranters found in the 1970s by Marxists and labeled many things including libertarian communists.. as though that'd give the 60s tankies sway over lollard england or leveller USA

a reply to: AOx6179

its just a rehash of the tankie arguments in the 60s and 70s..

it pops up every so often by those who come across it and try adopt other historical groupsor figures to validate their version of the world.

originally posted by: nickyw
a reply to: AOx6179

its just a rehash of the tankie arguments in the 60s and 70s..

it pops up every so often by those who come across it and try adopt other historical groupsor figures to validate their version of the world.

For sure. I had heard this bed time tale long long ago.