You Ready to Give College Kids A Break?

a reply to: JAGStorm

As someone who did not have any opportunity to go to college whatsoever, because I had to be working full time and supporting myself, paying bills, rent, etc much younger than that and had no support system whatsoever, so I KNEW I could not carry that much debt. NO. Not just no but he-double hockey sticks NO.

Look, everybody has their problems, everybody can overcome them or not. I don't think waving a magic wand and bailing people out of their poor decisions is the right move at all, ESPECIALLY in the current social climate of extreme entitlement and no consequences for your actions. It just teaches these people that if things get tough you don't have to help yourself because the government will bail you out. That is a bad lesson to teach.

Just dismantle the whole student loan apparatus. The only reason college is so expensive is because they basically get unlimited money from student loans. Do away with all the useless degrees like art or whatever that nobody gets a paying job with.

AND NO. No money for Ukraine. No money for anyone but America. But fixing a small subset of people's poor financial decisions should not be where that money goes. That is just like bailing out the banks, which I also don't support.

a reply to: Antimony

I guess I’m just at the point where I accept they WILL bleed us with Ukraine, they will bleed us with bank bailouts, so might as well help some youth. We may hate it and be against it, but they are going to tax us and spend on those things.

The other point, no youth should have to decide between education and survival. We are doing something wrong as as society.

I really think public schools should be K-bachelors degree.

a reply to: JAGStorm

to be fair that's your society which everyone else is copying rather and now making the same mistakes the us made but doing so even knowing its wrong is why the west will struggle iuni was free in my youth but i'd never have got a place as i was the wrong class, that prejudice still survives today in the uk.. a couple of places have never ever allowed working class (white's) through their doors bar as servants or domestics..

spo if you get the mythical free be sure its free to the poor rather than exclusionary and limited in some way which it will be to ensure its exclusivity for the rich which ios what unis are for..

a reply to: JAGStorm

I am dead set against sending massive foreign aid to Ukraine. We're buying our way into a world war.

I think depositors should be covered up to the proscribed $250k by law... the banks themselves should get squat. They screwed up, they can pay for it.

So I have to ask you this: why would I suddenly decide to support a bad decision just because two other bad decisions have been forced down my throat?

Look, I get it. Our Universities are screwing over our kids, letting them sink themselves deep in debt to obtain a degree that, except for a few mostly STEM degrees, are going to be useless to help pay it back. I saw it; I got my degree late in life. I did it through scholarships, subsidies (WIA), and working my way through school. I graduated debt free, and I had a wife and kids at the time!

Now I find out that I went through all that pain, all that sacrifice, for nothing? I could have lived high on the hog and the government would just bail me out? What exactly is fair about that?

Do you know what my "normal" lunch was? A couple of Vienna sausages sitting in the car between classes. The kids living on student loans were in the cafeteria eating hamburgers. What is fair about that?

We're supposed to be teaching these kids how to live in society. I happen to think a part of that is living up to promises one makes. Like, I don't know, actually paying one's bills when they come due? Like maybe living within one's means? Like, crazy, I know, being able to budget for living expenses? How is letting them sign a document promising to repay money they never earned and then just deciding no, they don't need to keep that promise, how is that helping teach them to be productive members of society?

You want to help education? Make the tuition affordable... free even, as a reward for high grades. Scholarships. Student jobs. Maybe an economics course about how money isn't plucked from thin air? I mean really, the kids I knew were already spoiled rotten... so we should spoil them more?

Please...

TheRedneck

Just say no to paying off student debt. I worked my ass off to pay off mine. So should they.

originally posted by: Creep Thumper
Just say no to paying off student debt. I worked my ass off to pay off mine. So should they.

I’m hearing a lot of the same answers/

I paid my way they should have to pay theirs.
The world is different now.

That is the same with houses. That is like someone that bought their house for 10K telling the youth to stop drinking coffee so they can afford a house.

Maybe what you did wasn’t right either. Should you have to work your ass off for an education???
Yes I am all for working hard and not being a sloth, but don’t we want an educated society?
Wouldn’t it benefit ALL of us to have more people educated?

a reply to: TheRedneck

You want to help education? Make the tuition affordable... free even, as a reward for high grades. Scholarships. Student jobs. Maybe an economics course about how money isn't plucked from thin air? I mean really, the kids I knew were already spoiled rotten... so we should spoil them more?

It’s not just tuition, it’s the whole system. That’s the problem. The system isn’t just the students either. It’s the very catch 22 system where there are entire cities that rely on students. Teachers, Pensions, Housing, Shops, Restaurants, Stores, Rentals, Hotels… I could go on all day.

There are military bases that close down and when they do the entire economy in those areas crash behind them. Colleges are the same way, but they never get to crash.

My mother and father went through some hard times when I was a kid. Although they bought me things that I wanted, they could not pay for my education, nor did I expect them to.

I joined the Navy because my draft number was so low, I would be getting the "invitation" to Vietnam any day. At least it would be my choice.

The service taught me how to fend for myself and be responsible. I stayed in for 8 years because I enjoyed it.

When I got out I went to college on the G.I. Bill and ultimately became a very well paid systems engineer. I was ready for it and going to school was such a purposeful and rewarding experience.

I am not saying that kids have to go into the service to appreciate an education, but it was certainly a more rewarding experience than many of my friends had and I was doing it totally for myself.

There are certain kids out there that could benefit from a like experience, and if you want to really do something, doing it on your own terms is a beautiful thing.

a reply to: JAGStorm

so you expect everyone to pay for other people's mistakes? what about people like me? people who made the choice NOT to go to college or university. because i knew i couldn't get any grants or anything, and that my family could not afford to pay for it, and also decided that going into massive debt on the chance, i might be able to get a better job was a bad idea. so therefore, if anyone gets any of their student loans, which they freely chose to accept the terms on, paid off, then those of us like me, should receive AT LEAST the same amount of cash, as a reward for NOT choosing to go into that debt. or alternately of course allow all those who did not go to college or university, to enroll in said schools in the courses they want ( for the next year, and given priority over all newly graduated students, in other words anyone who would do this automatically accepted, and only room in courses not being used by those who never were able to be so educated before available to newly graduated students. and that would likely take several years as i believe there are far more people who never had the opportunity, because of the expense, than people who actually were able to get that higher education), and given a complete free ride with tuition and living expenses fully paid for the entirety of that education. i think for myself an engineering degree would be appropriate. fair is fair after all. not to mention paying back those who have faithfully paid off their self assumed debts, also deserve at least as much cash, if again not more, as a reward for fully for-filling their self assumed obligations. and those are the only ways we can make it fair for all, other than insisting that those who freely accepted the risk and expense of those loans, pay fully back, what they agreed to.

now for that excuse about how kids are conned into going to college that i can see coming from a mile away. if someone feels like the school systems and or schools conned them into going, and accepting those loans, feel free to sue said schools and school systems you blame for it (with a provision, that no extra tax payer money may be used past what the schools and school systems already receive).

a reply to: TheRedneck

I got my education by way of scholarship and I worked my behind off too, keeping my academic level high enough to continue to qualify.

I am much older than most of you, and I was the first person in my family to complete university.

I did not know anyone that was living high off the hog during my time is school. We're were all struggling and we were all just trying to get through, with hope of being able to afford the pigs feet.

I admit that university has morphed into something unrecognizable, but so has everything else in this world.

I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bathwater. Those that have paid their dues, and need help muddling through the swamp we have placed before them, should be given some help.

I never would have gotten through university without the scholarship, and I never would have been able to pay back a loan, and still meet my other obligations.

I am eternally grateful that I got a break. Though I think I worked for it. With the costs being what they are today, not just with schools, but with the insane cost of housing, food, and transportation, there are deserving folk that need help. I think we should give it to them.

originally posted by: JAGStorm

originally posted by: Creep Thumper
Just say no to paying off student debt. I worked my ass off to pay off mine. So should they.

I’m hearing a lot of the same answers/

I paid my way they should have to pay theirs.
The world is different now.

That is the same with houses. That is like someone that bought their house for 10K telling the youth to stop drinking coffee so they can afford a house.

Maybe what you did wasn’t right either. Should you have to work your ass off for an education???
Yes I am all for working hard and not being a sloth, but don’t we want an educated society?
Wouldn’t it benefit ALL of us to have more people educated?

Will paying off student debt now help everyone who recently went to college and had enormous debt? Will the government be making those who didn't take loans out to go to college whole over the opportunity costs they have?

What about those who will go to college in the future? Does the government plan to forgive their future loans? Will forgiving loans today somehow make college cheaper in the future?

Maybe if student loan forgiveness was part of a much larger solution to correct the issues of sky rocketing tuition more people would be on board.

But if the government just wants to arbitrarily pick winners and losers than you can leave me out of it.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
Now I’m 100% convinced we will cover the losses for the banks going under and any future ones…

You're probably right, but we absolutely shouldn't. Depositors should get what FDIC covers, nothing more.

So, do you still think we shouldn’t give our kids a break with their college debt?
...
But when it is our kids, OUR KIDS, All of OUR KIDS,

Sorry, but they aren't 'communal' kids. They are their parents kids. My kids are MY kids, and my responsibility, not yours or anyone else's.

I know why too, people just can’t see someone of their status get something they didn’t get. “It isn’t FAIR”.
They can’t stand to see someone, even a young person get a leg up.

Well, it absolutely wouldn't be fair to the thousands of hard working kids who worked their way through school, and paid off their loans. I'm quite sure you can actually see that.

Two things I have to say on the subject...

a) If there is going to be ANY kind of debt forgiveness, that is all it should be. But that isn't what is being discussed.

They are talking about handing these kids a freakin check. And of course, the freakin irresponsible brats are talking about how they're gonna use the money to have fun, take a vacation, buy a big screen TV, etc freakin etc.

So, if there is to be any amount of forgiveness, how about a direct payment to their loan service provider.

b) Since the schools took massive advantage of government mandated school loan programs and jacked up their tuitions accordingly, force the schools to pony up and match DOUBLE what the government forgives, or else they lose any and all government funding going forward.

I have degrees piled on top of degrees but the secret to Univ. and higher education in general to transform that experience into a profit making enterprise, is not the class work but the friends you make while at school. It may sound facetious but it really is WHO you know!!

I would much rather my tax dollars be spent on helping people rather than the MIC deathcult or the banking elite.

a reply to: JAGStorm

But they are ok with paying for Ukraine and Big Banks…?

Two wrongs don't make a right. Not fixing problems but adding more is what got us here.

Going forward, DC has the ability to change laws making higher education free to all-or free to those living at poverty level. Retroactively paying off loans-which many are more than capable of paying off on their own-is just adding even more to the debt crisis.

It's high time we got spending under control, not think up new ways to further our indebtedness.

We should be advocating for more fiscal responsibility, not less.

There are many people who have to choose between life-saving medication and food. THAT should be a priority over loan forgiveness, IMO. We all know it's just liberal pandering for votes-and if it succedes the cost of higher education will increase drastically. That just how this game always plays out-look at the present benefits but not the detrimental ones that will follow for decades after.

a reply to: nugget1

We should be advocating for more fiscal responsibility, not less.

I don’t see half the passion when it comes to fiscal responsibility of banks and the rich, that’s really my gist.

PS I got scholarships, and worked my butt off for my education. I’m not sure that is what everyone should be doing.

a reply to: JAGStorm

The world is different now.

No. I graduated in 2016. The world has not reversed rotational direction in 7 years. I'm not talking about back in the 1980s... I am talking about now.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: TheRedneck
I am eternally grateful that I got a break. Though I think I worked for it.

I don't 'think' you worked for it, you obviously worked for it, and your reward was you made it all the way through school without having to pay the tuition. Congratulations, and you should be proud!

A scholarship is not a 'break', and not even in the same ballpark as 'school debt forgiveness'.

With the costs being what they are today, not just with schools, but with the insane cost of housing, food, and transportation, there are deserving folk that need help. I think we should give it to them.

The problem with that line of reasoning is quite simple...

People who are 'given' something a) don't appreciate it, and b) will almost always abuse it.

I'd be ok with the government 'buying' the loans at a discount (require the schools the students attended to make up the difference or forego future government funding) and eliminating the interest, but no, they have to pay it back.

57% of students who take on student loan debt don’t go on to graduate.

[educationdata.org...]

Don't throw money at the problem; FIX IT.

a reply to: FamCore

Intelligent.com surveyed 1,250 individuals who have applied or plan to apply for Biden’s student loan forgiveness program.

1,250 individuals is a fraction of students with debt. I know plenty whose life would improve with student loan forgiveness. Plenty of cuts we could make to let this happen without adding more to the debt.

But as always, blame the poor. Blame the young. Blame everything but the corporations who spend billions lobbying politicians to rig the game in their direction.

I know plenty of students working their ass off right now. Yet, we'll spend hundreds of millions in Ukraine and give major corporations massive tax breaks. Just blame those damn lazy kids! Don't you question your corporate overlords and corrupt politicians. Remember who owns you peseants!

a reply to: JAGStorm

Right, we'll bail out banks whenever they are in trouble. But bailing out students with debt? Nah, screw those lazy youngins!

But lets keep bailing out the rich. Our wealthy saviors will trickle down the wealth right? O what.. they've hoarded it more than ever and the wealth gap hasn't ever been bigger?

Well, just forget that you marxist cucks! Just keep believing corporate media. They definetly don't get hundreds of millions in ad revenue from large corporations. No agendas there.

Stupid lazy kids creating all the problems.