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CBDC incoming, FEDNOW to launch in July

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posted on Mar, 16 2023 @ 06:57 PM
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a reply to: tanstaafl



It is instant as far as the buyer and seller are concerned. Only the network is concerned with the very short delay in final settlement.


Same with ACH.


Since the Lightning network can handle 50 times more transactions than VISA can right now, and it is getting faster every day as more and more nodes come on line, and the transactions cost stay the same (because they are batched in optimal batch sizes to optimize the costs when settling with the blockchain), your argument... fails.


On paper as its not been tested. In 2019 we saw transactions costing hundreds of dollars.

My argument cant fail against yours because your claim has yet to be tested......



posted on Mar, 16 2023 @ 07:23 PM
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originally posted by: litterbaux

It's kind of convenient this news comes out after a few bank failures happen and the FED is going to cover all losses even over the FDIC insurance of 250k.

Yes, yes, this is not connected at all!

Fednow will ensure instant payments, the treasury is on board, the fed is on board. See the connection?


That's the good old Hegelian-Dialectic™ at work, that you correctly spotted there.

A few Banks™ had-to Fail™, before they present us with the pre-designed system.

It'll start-out all nice and fuzzy.
Just your good Government™ helping you keep your Money™ safe.

Safe-and-Easy™ will be the selling points.
Some kind of promise of anonymity will be a selling-point at the beginning, along with convenience.




posted on Mar, 16 2023 @ 08:21 PM
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originally posted by: tanstaafl
...
FedNow, if it works and is reliable and relatively bug free, will certainly be wildly successful.


Did that Sales-Pitch™ come, copy-and-pasted, straight outta their Helpful-Pamphlet™ ?


Their CDBC launch? Yeah, not so much. It is apparently so far from ready right now that by the time it is ready, bitcoin layer 2 apps - most importantly, Lightning, but there will almost certainly be more - will have evolved to the point there will be no stopping bitcoin/lightning without killing the entire internet - which would also kill their CDBC.


Whatever net anonymity there is now, is going to be reduced as much as they can.
The days of not using an Official-ID™ to log-on to the Internet™ : are nearing an end.

That's was has me worried a bit about crypto, but not excluded from maybe trying a little bit.


edit on 16-3-2023 by Nothin because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2023 @ 05:09 AM
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originally posted by: JinMI
DiDs are far more worriesome in my eyes. Less actual banks are more worriesome. Having a third party on/off switch probably my highest worry.


Banks aren't going anywhere, they are critical to the lending process. A instant payment network is something they all currently use with the Clearing House, this is just a front facing version of the same platform.



posted on Mar, 17 2023 @ 05:12 AM
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originally posted by: tanstaafl
They are both electronic payment systems.


A porterhouse and a cabbage are both food.


As for Lightning being niche, ApplePay was niche when it first launched too.


ApplePay transactions are ultimately settled on a trusted platform, FedWire. It also had a global powerhouse behind it that already had broad adoption of its porterhouse since Apple isn't in the cabbage selling business.



posted on Mar, 17 2023 @ 06:29 AM
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originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: tanstaafl

Again because;

At volume, L2 increases in time to settle and price to transact.

First of all, I'm actually fairly certain I read some details about how the Lightning network works that disputes both of these, but I'm open to hearing your argument... so, why exactly do you make this claim with certainty? What evidence do you have? Regardless:

a) as to 'time to settle' increasing as volume goes up: with the capacity of the Lightning network as it stands now at one million transactions per second, even if every single transaction that both VISA and Mastercard combined were to start running through the Lightning network today, they would constitute 1/50th of the total capacity, so there is obviously a whole, whole lot of wiggle room there, especially when you consider that its capacity will only grow over time - and you want to argue that there is a need to spend any time worrying about scaling issues right now? And,

b) since the costs for settlement for Lightning transactions are simply the shared costs for all of the transactions in a batch, and that process is unaffected by any possible slowdowns on the Lightning network itself, I don't think such slowdowns would affect the costs at all.


Its a scaling issue. The same issue prevelant in almost all crypto. The same reason ETH switched to PoS. Millions if not billions of dollars spent in research and development.

You think Vitalik spent 'millions if not billions' in R&D? If you weren't referring to him, then who?

ETH switched from PoW to PoS, bitcoin developed Lightning as a Layer 2 app, both to solve the scaling issue. Some people think it is better to do this on chain, the majority of bitcoiners disagreed. There is more than one way to skin a cute little kitty as they say.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that work shouldn't continue to improve scalability, and there is lots of room for improvement, but more importantly, there are still some very real problems that need to be solved that are much more urgent than scalability. Bring up some of those and we can have a real discussion about real here-and-now problems.


Meanwhile, the trust systems of the ACHs remain completely static.

Not sure of your point. Trust must be earned over time, and the ACH payment system has been around forever, is robust, well vetted, and just works. Do you think that was the case 2 or 3 years after it was first introduced?. It took many years for ApplePay to take off too. Lightning has only been around for a few years, and has come along way, but sure, has a ways to go.



posted on Mar, 17 2023 @ 06:40 AM
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originally posted by: tanstaafl
It took many years for ApplePay to take off too.


LOL. Just stop.

Apple Pay took off instantly. They had 67million users the first year with a volume that was measured in billions while Lightning is still dicking around with tens of millions a month.





edit on 17-3-2023 by AugustusMasonicus because: DEY. TERK. YER. ELERKJERN. AGERN!!!!!



posted on Mar, 17 2023 @ 06:51 AM
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originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: tanstaafl

Same with ACH.

I agree... but fail to see your point...


On paper as its not been tested.

No, sorry, but the capacity of individual lightning nodes has definitely been tested, and the maths that determines the time it takes for nodes to interact, as well as the total network capacity based on the number of nodes is simple and easy to prove.

So, no, it absolutely is not just 'on paper'.


In 2019 we saw transactions costing hundreds of dollars.

Direct on-chain bitcoin transactions, yes, but not Lightning transactions.

I believe that is called a strawman.

Unless your claim indeed is that a Lightning transaction cost hundreds of dollars. I'm 99.999% certain that is not true, but if it is it is, so any actual evidence to back that up?


My argument cant fail against yours because your claim has yet to be tested.

What argument? You're actually trying to make two[/v], but one is just a wild unsupported fear that a network capable of processing one million transactions per second somehow has 'scalability problems' while the evidence clearly shows the exact opposite, and your other one, that there is a cost scalability problem, is just flat wrong.
edit on 17-3-2023 by tanstaafl because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2023 @ 06:59 AM
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originally posted by: Nothin
a reply to: tanstaafl
Did that Sales-Pitch™ come, copy-and-pasted, straight outta their Helpful-Pamphlet™ ?

No copy/paste, just a simple observation that a new lightning fast payment processing super-highway underlying the massively huge existing payment processing ecosystem of our totally corrupt, fully permissioned and controlled banking and payment system will - if it works as advertised and is relatively bug-free - will be, as I said, wildly successful.

If you want to call a simple observation a sales pitch, well... ok...


The days of not using an Official-ID™ to log-on to the Internet™ : are nearing an end.

Maybe... but I see huge hurdles and push back, in the form of lots of valid Constitutional challenges - if they ever try to enforce such a thing here in the States.



posted on Mar, 17 2023 @ 07:32 AM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: tanstaafl
A porterhouse and a cabbage are both food.

A porterhouse is food for humans, cabbage is food for rabbits.


ApplePay transactions are ultimately settled on a trusted platform, FedWire. It also had a global powerhouse behind it that already had broad adoption

Again, both true, but you seem to have neglected the fact that even with the combination of a very well established and trusted settlement platform and the powerhouse of Apple behind the new payment processor, ApplePay still took years before its adoption rate actually started to take off.
edit on 17-3-2023 by tanstaafl because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-3-2023 by tanstaafl because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-3-2023 by tanstaafl because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2023 @ 07:38 AM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: tanstaafl
LOL. Just stop.

Apple Pay took off instantly.

Really? The data says otherwise.

Maybe you are confusing those who have it installed with those who actually use it? And no, I'm not saying they don't use it because they don't trust it... but there is no way to prove that one way or another.



posted on Mar, 17 2023 @ 08:15 AM
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a reply to: tanstaafl

LOL. Again, just stop.

6% of trillions is a **** ton of transactions and dollars. Of all mobile wallet transactions Apple accounts for the vast majority and their volume is measured in hundreds of billions of dollars per year. Lightning, not so much.



posted on Mar, 17 2023 @ 08:18 AM
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originally posted by: tanstaafl
A porterhouse is food for humans, cabbage is food for rabbits.


Yup, just like Apple Pay dominates it's sector and Lightning is in 'what is that territory?'...still. Any day now. Any day.


Again, both true, but you seem to have neglected the fact that even with the combination of a very well established and trusted settlement platform and the powerhouse of Apple behind the new payment processor, ApplePay still took years before its adoption rate actually started to take off.


67million in year one dwarfs what Lightning is currently at and it's been out for years now. Apple currently has 500million+ users. Lightning, not so much.



posted on Mar, 17 2023 @ 09:59 AM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: tanstaafl

LOL. Again, just stop.

Lol, make me...


6% of trillions is a **** ton of transactions and dollars.

Yes, but it is still only 6% of what it could be, and this is

a) 7 YEARS after adoption,
b) using a monopolistic platform that is DECADES old and extremely well trusted, and
c) using an app from a trillion dollar public corporation that has a monopoly on their ecosystem and the app is a native part of it.

Minimize it all you want, it is what it is - very slow adoption, especially in the first 2-4 years.



posted on Mar, 17 2023 @ 10:03 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 17 2023 @ 10:04 AM
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a reply to: tanstaafl

That 6% represents hundreds of billions of dollars. Lightning is still dicking around with $25million a month years after launch. Apple Pay was already in the billions in year one. There is zero comparison.

Additionally, Apple's method of use, MPoC, is the preferred future state for merchants and networks as it provides additional security, and they already have the vehicle for this usage demand.

And you're the one who initially made the Apple vs.Turdling platform comparison.







edit on 17-3-2023 by AugustusMasonicus because: dey terk er election, ert wers er blerdberth



posted on Mar, 17 2023 @ 10:06 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 17 2023 @ 10:50 AM
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CBDC Tracker


This site does present an interesting picture for where things are at for now.

Countries are doing their own thing and at different stages when it comes to the actual development and implementation.

For some of the countries already with an active with a CBDC system are the kind you would not expect, Nigeria and the Carribean islands. The kind of places running on corruption and corporate friendly legal jurisdictions. With this group out the starting blocks first, it provides a glimpse of the culture pushing these plans. Was it forced on them, or do they see an economic advantage being ahead of the pack?

Other countries are in various states of progress and implementing a few optional methods around domestic and foreign trade. it looks like some Olympic games type marathon race where each country pays and runs its own infrastructure.



posted on Mar, 17 2023 @ 11:50 AM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: tanstaafl

That 6% represents hundreds of billions of dollars.

It is also just 6%, which is a whole lot less than 90%. I'm mildly curious what you might consider 'slow'... but since you're just gaslighting...



Lightning is still dicking around with $25million a month years after launch. Apple Pay was already in the billions in year one. There is zero comparison.

Yes - if you enjoy gaslighting.

Stating it like that without acknowledging that ApplePay had extraordinarily monumental advantages as compared to Lightning with the combination of:

a) a decades old trusted monopolized payment platform,
b) the backing of a company with a trillion dollar market cap, and
c) a ready to go captive market of 1.5+ billion users

is just... well, a special kind of hackery is all I can come up with.


Additionally, Apple's method of use, MPoC, is the preferred future state

Preferred? It is the only option. That is the nature of a monopoly.


as it provides additional security,

Security - yeah... skimmers, etc etc ad nauseum. They're really super duper secure.


and they already have the vehicle for this usage demand.

So you do at least partly acknowledge the mind boggling advantage ApplePay had, and I'm sure you're perfectly aware of the truth of what I'm saying, you just like to spread FUD and engage in gaslighting because orange man bad.


And you're the one who initially made the Apple vs.Turdling platform comparison.

Why yes, yes I did, because all things considered (see above monumental hurdles Lightning is up against), Lightning is doing very well indeed.
edit on 17-3-2023 by tanstaafl because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2023 @ 11:52 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 




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