"At the Coffee table" .... an exercise

originally posted by: Maxmars

originally posted by: MykeNukem

What's your point, that MSM and other sources report with an inherent bias that can't be escaped, and we in turn, filter that already biased information through a biased world-view? Does that sum it up, without the wall of text?

1. Do you really think you've summarized my point in that sentence? If so, congratulations. If not... why that answer?

2. Did you believe that this was about internal biases and their inevitability in communications, or that the missing element is the willingness to apply acknowledgement in reasoned dialog?

3. I'd venture to say that "Don't drink that tea, Trump, it's been poisoned." didn't really convey that either way.

1. Yes, pretty much. The only part I didn't add in reference to what was said, is: "don't do that".

2. Yes, don't be biased or acknowledge it at least, like I said above, the only part I didn't add is: "don't do that"

3. I think "Don't drink that tea, Trump, it's been poisoned.", is exactly what you were talking about. You even said so. You just didn't understand that it was meant as a joke. Not my fault. The joke was made to illustrate the fact that I got the point of your OP.

a reply to: bluemooone2

Another point made.

That was funny though.

a reply to: Maxmars


As I read your OP I thought this was the beginning of an amazing short story with exactly the right balance of dry humor, why is it in this forum?

You owe us a short story with these skills of yours y'hear?


Your OP also made me wonder if sage advice is appropriate for all circumstances.

Should we show sympathy for the devil?

Would I put down my weapons on Christmas day to build a snowman on the battlefield with my mortal enemy?

Would you go back in a time machine and kill baby Adolf?

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: Maxmars

As I read your OP I thought this was the beginning of an amazing short story with exactly the right balance of dry humor, why is it in this forum?

Thank you - I mean to write more little stories in the future...

Your OP also made me wonder if sage advice is appropriate for all circumstances.

Clearly, you are correct.... but I really didn't think I was offering any advice, sage or otherwise. Only a thought exercise.

And as for baby Adolf, I admit, I can't help but think that wouldn't be wise, I'm not that smart.

From a long ago member Mr Mask I bring you Camper Killer Commentary ! He still makes content from time to time. a reply to: Maxmars

The OP made some very valid points that should be considered not flippantly disregarded. I found the story and the exercises that followed to be useful.

a reply to: Maxmars

Our long lost ATS friend Grambler has been very active in the online debate community. Now hosting and participating in a few ventures across the web.

Recently, there was a panel style debate on The Crucible for which he was the moderator and the topic was; "Has the media become an enemy of the people."

Anyway, it was fascinating and captivating the differing points of view on the subject. One of the things I noticed that did not come up was the term "press."

We can easily conflate news, media, propaganda, truth and fact. While these can fall under the umbrella of press, none of those terms describe the word completely.

Press is boring, facts are boring. Boring doesn't generate capital. Facts are harmful to just about all of DC.

Why does all this matter?

Simple. There are massive incentives, not just monetarily, to generate media while there exist very little to produce facts. Especially if facts nor debate are applied to held stances and positions.

originally posted by: Maxmars

originally posted by: TruthJava
a reply to: Maxmars

ok, looks like I might need to get out more as well, so going to find something to do

Nah... that's just noise.

And maybe - on the pretentious side - that we ought to remind ourselves about such things as we consume and relay information between us.

"On the pretentious side." Yeah, kinda my point. But I guess you know better, being a moderator and all.

a reply to: Maxmars

S&F for trying to get folks to think, and consider how they may be in reactionary mode more than we realize.

You're right : TV-News™ is Produced™.

Nobody here believes anything they see on the MSM™ though, eh ?

Consider that no MSM-News™ provider, has any interest at all in ethical, moral, or curious journalists.
The want : Reporters™.

Could this is the reason for the explosion of alternative journalism, on small obscure websites ?


Used to get turned-off when they would ask for support, or peddle goods : but it is totally understandable why they must earn some income.

a reply to: Nothin

Truthfully, I figured not many here needed to be told what they already know about MSM... I thought I would try to show how engrained and programmed our reactions are.

When I first attempted this exercise with my family, when I came to the name "Trump" (and "Biden" in the first telling) I was able to point out to them the mental "flash" or "jolt" of programming that instantly registered in them. In one case, when I said "Trump" I actually saw the shift of the eyes, the slight rolling of the eyes... before the tale had even properly begun in earnest.

I thought, or wondered to myself, if ATSer's recognized that in themselves. How they could not even escape the programming for the 30 seconds it took to tell the little story. My kids recognized it, and it caused them to think about how they actually were more or less 'conditioned' to react to the name.

It is normal, we have been programmed, we all are more or less affected the same way. It doesn't even make a difference what "side" each of them fall on when it comes to politics... it's very common.

I didn't expect some to trivialize the observation as has happened. Or perhaps it is just my own inability to express the exercise in such a way as to point it out.

It was a pointless story... that was the entire point... and yet, there it is.. the "hink" of a certain name or topic. I don't fault anyone for it, it happens to me too. I just don't care for the idea that nowadays the entire focus of 'news' seems bent on exploiting it...

Thanks for taking the time to think about it.

Along the same lines.......the story about Mitch McConnell's fall.


www.npr.org...

A source familiar with the incident confirmed McConnell fell at the Waldorf Astoria hotel in Washington, D.C.

www.cbsnews.com...

The senator from Kentucky, 81, was attending a private dinner when he tripped. He was taken to a hospital for treatment.

www.usatoday.com...

McConnell, 81, was hospitalized late Wednesday and is being treated for a concussion after falling at a dinner event in Washington.

www.cnn.com...

The fall happened at the Waldorf Astoria hotel in Washington, DC, which was formerly the Trump International Hotel, according to a source familiar with the matter.

One of these stories is different.........guess why.

a reply to: Maxmars

Myke doesn't need any defending, but he is Canadian, as myself.

Perhaps it was not as intense an exercise for us, as we already had a little more distance from the hapless combatants ?

Am guessing that perhaps a few members may have bit the bias cookie, and then decided not to reply.

Another idea is that Politics™ is pretty much a write-off with me as total garbage, so perhaps another subject could have gotten me sucked-in.
Only fair for me to admit those two angles of it.

My experience with starting thought-exercise threads is worser than yours though ... Lol !!

originally posted by: Nothin
a reply to: Maxmars

Myke doesn't need any defending, but he is Canadian, as myself.

Perhaps it was not as intense an exercise for us, as we already had a little more distance from the hapless combatants ?

Yea, I don't have a reaction just from hearing peoples names. I certainly don't form any sort of precontrived opinion or narrative just from hearing a few names. I think most of us are a little more savvy than that.

I consider this an experiment based on anecdotal evidence at best.

a reply to: MykeNukem

Well, there's something to be said about folks who passively gather information vs actively.

By and large, folks here are actively searching for it, arguably.

However the wider population may be more passive on information. Be it in passing or a "trusted" source.


It would be very interesting to see some definite metrics applied.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: MykeNukem

Well, there's something to be said about folks who passively gather information vs actively.

By and large, folks here are actively searching for it, arguably.

However the wider population may be more passive on information. Be it in passing or a "trusted" source.

Agreed.

But both sets of people have the same danger of either passively becoming tainted or actively searching out the taint.

Diligence is always key IMO

It would be very interesting to see some definite metrics applied.

Yea, I think it would apply to a certain segment of society, no matter what their political views are. Just a guess though.

Wait ...

Did I do it wrong? I may have had my internal reactions related to Trump and Biden, but neither one really did anything weird or noteworthy in the anecdote that is beyond the pale.

This is why the mad rush to report on Trump eating two scoops of ice cream or the way he fed fish in Japan always seemed to off to me.

a reply to: MykeNukem

Oh sure!

As the phrase goes, no accounting for taste.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: MykeNukem

Oh sure!

As the phrase goes, no accounting for taste.

No, but I did account for taint.

a reply to: MykeNukem

As a Troglodyte does!

a reply to: Maxmars

Clearly, you are correct.... but I really didn't think I was offering any advice, sage or otherwise. Only a thought exercise.

I know. I'm just telling you where my thoughts ended up because of the exercise.

Sometimes hatred and anger are the correct response.