Bakhmut about to fall.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Most sense I have seen is due to the population issues russia is having this was the last shot to get back to the old physical points that would be easier to defend.

Problem is the corruption rotted the military and Ukrainian people (I am talking the people not the govt) remember the last time they were ruled by the russians and said oh heck no not again and putin doesnt see a way out without looking weak so now he has to win it all or get removed and probably turned into mulch.

originally posted by: Irishhaf

Most sense I have seen is due to the population issues russia is having this was the last shot to get back to the old physical points that would be easier to defend.

Problem is the corruption rotted the military and Ukrainian people (I am talking the people not the govt) remember the last time they were ruled by the russians and said oh heck no not again and putin doesnt see a way out without looking weak so now he has to win it all or get removed and probably turned into mulch.

What people are not willing to see is Russia has as much if not more corruption than Ukraine. Come-on they are both from the same cloth...

Russian corruption has led to what we see today. Russia should have walked over Ukraine in the first month, but their embedded corruption has made their military weak. Billions that should have gone into the Russian military actually went into the oligarchs' pockets with Putin's approval and we see the crap show they have become.

We will see where it goes, but I said on day one this is a war of attrition and the last time Russia went toe to toe in that area it led to 1991, so we will see. After 9 or so wars under Putin they been basically cake walks has countries just laid down and gave up with hardly a shot fired. Today they been put to the test and all of a sudden everyone is screaming oh you can't do that! Well, we can and did and now Russia is stuck in a mess with little ways out even if they end of devastating every building standing and killing millions in the process to include mass deaths of their own people they still lose in the end.

a reply to: TheRedneck

I didn't... you did.

You just did, in the post I replied to. Am I going to have to quote it? You take responsibility for what you write. I'm not going to take it for you, even if we write about the same things.

Point is, all the people and platforms you mentioned have nothing... nothing... to do with this conflict. They are spectators. Diplomacy, by definition, can only happen between the involved parties. That's Zelensky (Ukraine) and Putin (Russia). Twitter isn't invading anyone, and Twitter is not being invaded. Neither is the media, China, or anyone else you named.

So is the table involved in this conflict? The table you want them to sit down around? Or is America involved, for that matter, since you talk about America negotiating to make them negotiate?

I guess you're hoping to wear me out with all this nonsense. I listed every type of negotiation I can think of since nothing seems to satisfy you. I already mentioned Zelensky and Putin. I mentioned Ukraine and Russia. They have diplomats in the UN. Are they not related to their employers?

But all you want to talk about is twitter. Again I think it's sad that you accuse others of trying to muddle up the narratives when you keep doing it yourself.

Force? No... force is not diplomacy. However, persuasion can be.

I asked whether you think they should be forced to engage in diplomacy. That doesn't mean force is diplomacy. You did answer me though, thanks for that.

That is overthrow of a sovereign government. That is exactly why we are finding ourselves in the middle of wars. It is why Iran hates our guts and why we spent and lost so much in Afghanistan and Syria.

The passage of time is overthrow of a sovereign government? I guess you could say it's God's way of overthrowing governments, lol. I'm sarcastic, but my point is that it looks like you misread what I wrote.

Sadly today, the war there will enter the age of the missiles. American military soon will get its rocks off again at the expense of the young men in the military, but why and what for. I WANT AN ANSWER TO THIS

a reply to: Cutepants

OK, not going to play this silly little game with you. Here's what I wrote to you on Tuesday at 4:11 CDT:

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Cutepants

• No actions by either side are ever absolved by the other. But they have to be addressed. The very fact that one country invaded another means that country had a reason to do so. It was no accident; they purposely invaded. That reason may be reasonable, or it may not be... but we will never know unless we ask what those reasons were. We have not asked Putin what his reasons were; we have tried to tell him why he invaded Ukraine. That's not how it works.

TheRedneck

To which you replied, on Tuesday at 16:42 CDT:

originally posted by: Cutepants

This sounds bizarre to me, because to me it seems that there's constantly dialogue going on at all levels, in the media and on twitter, meetings in the UN, Israel and Turkey and China trying to mediate, and so on.

You made the first mention of Twitter, two days ago. I then called you out on it. Now you want to play some silly little game about who said what when. Too bad, so sad, it's all there in the4 database and there's not one damn thing you can do to change that. The posts in their entirety are accessible by just clicking on the links.

If you want to play silly little childish games, you will play them by yourself. I am not interested. Now, do you want to continue this conversation like adults, or not?

I will reply to the rest of your post if and only if you choose to continue. Otherwise I see I am just flapping my fingers in the breeze. Let me know.

TheRedneck

a reply to: musicismagic

Sadly today, the war there will enter the age of the missiles. American military soon will get its rocks off again at the expense of the young men in the military, but why and what for. I WANT AN ANSWER TO THIS

Because certain career politicians in the US government have decided that destruction of the world as we all know it is preferable to having their illegalities and corruption clearly exposed in Ukraine. And because they can... there are so many people who have fallen under their charismatic spell that they can get by with literally anything just by giving green paper to more unscrupulous people in the media to cover for them.

The totality of what we are doing is yet to be revealed... but it is coming. Watch Romania.

TheRedneck

And to which you replied:

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Cutepants
Diplomacy is not Twitter! Diplomacy is not about pundits from other countries! Zelensky and Putin have to sit down at a single table somewhere and talk to each other. What you are describing is propaganda, not diplomacy.

You're welcome to return to any part of the previous posts you see fit and I'm happy to continue on those questions. But actually it might be useful to talk about this new dispute that just came up.

My impression right now is that you're saying that because I was first to mention twitter in this particular thread or discussion it was unfair of me to ask you why you brought it up in turn, as can be seen here:

originally posted by: Cutepants
a reply to: TheRedneck

Why do you bring up twitter? Putin doesn't even use the internet from what I've heard. It seems like a rhetorical trick to avoid everything else I mentioned. Does the UN meet on twitter? Did they have peace talks on twitter and not in Turkey? And aren't other people than Zelensky and Putin involved in this?

So I think your grievance is mainly that I'm trying to willfully ignore or hide the fact that I brought up twitter. And that I'm trying to flip it around and make it look like you mentioned it first. But that's not what I said. Everyone can read our posts and see this.

I asked you why you brought it up in your post, in the context of your reply to me. When you yourself use the word you recontextualize it and and use it for your own purposes. And the reason why I asked is because I don't see any merit in that rebuttal and I wanted you to elaborate on that and maybe compel you to engage more widely with that passage you replied to. I can't force you to do that and I have no right to anyway, but at the same time I won't let you make this out as some petty game coming from me.

Now someone might say I'm going even further off topic than we already were. I want to preemptively say that this is not the case. I'm just defending myself and going into more detail on what was already being discussed, trying to explain more in detail how I perceive what others wrote or what I meant when I wrote certain things.

a reply to: Cutepants

Wrong response.

I'm going to the adult table now. Have a nice day.

TheRedneck

The country of Poland just announced it is preparing to send mig fighter jets to Ukraine.

www.msn.com...

Will Ukraine pilots go through a crash course of learning how to fly those jets? Russia might shoot them down The first day.

a reply to: carewemust

Closer and Closer to another World War.

a reply to: carewemust

Mig-29 is a Soviet fighter. Ukrainian pilots have been using these planes for decades.

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: carewemust

Closer and Closer to another World War.

I hope it can wait until after I see a few high-level scumbag traitors indicted.

originally posted by: Cutepants
a reply to: carewemust

Mig-29 is a Soviet fighter. Ukrainian pilots have been using these planes for decades.

Then Russia knows how to "jam" their electronics?

a reply to: carewemust

This tells you all you need to know:

President Andrzej Duda said the planes – from about a dozen that it had inherited from the former German Democratic Republic – would be handed over in the coming days after being serviced.

Those jets have been rotting in a hanger somewhere since the 1980's.

Which is par for the course, really. Most of the stuff the NATO countries have been foisting on Ukraine is old crap they don't even want anymore.

Consider: the latest idea (from a few days ago) is to send F-16s to Ukraine. Yeah!!! That'll do it, right?
Even ignoring the fact that nobody on that side of the Atlantic knows how to fly one, those jets date back to 1976. They are, literally, as old as I am. In modern terms, an F-16 is basically a few steps above the planes they were using in the Second World War.

originally posted by: AndyFromMichigan
a reply to: carewemust

This tells you all you need to know:

President Andrzej Duda said the planes – from about a dozen that it had inherited from the former German Democratic Republic – would be handed over in the coming days after being serviced.

Those jets have been rotting in a hanger somewhere since the 1980's.

Which is par for the course, really. Most of the stuff the NATO countries have been foisting on Ukraine is old crap they don't even want anymore.

Consider: the latest idea (from a few days ago) is to send F-16s to Ukraine. Yeah!!! That'll do it, right?
Even ignoring the fact that nobody on that side of the Atlantic knows how to fly one, those jets date back to 1976. They are, literally, as old as I am. In modern terms, an F-16 is basically a few steps above the planes they were using in the Second World War.

The F16 is still in production and had been continually modernised.

Most russian fighter designs date back to the 70s. and 80s.

a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

No one knows how to fly F16s this side of the Atlantic?

Apart from Belgium, Poland, Greece, Portugal, Italy, and so on?

a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

Most of the stuff the NATO countries have been foisting on Ukraine is old crap they don't even want anymore.

Surprising then that the " old crap " has detroyed so much of Russia's armoury.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Cutepants
a reply to: carewemust

Mig-29 is a Soviet fighter. Ukrainian pilots have been using these planes for decades.

Then Russia knows how to "jam" their electronics?

What do you mean, jam their radio comms? Both sides have been using these exact same planes since the Soviet Union collapsed. And they've been fighting for a year now. There's no secret James Bond hack.

a reply to: alldaylong

Yeah, old crap like Javelins, HIMARs etc.

a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

"They are, literally, as old as I am. In modern terms, an F-16 is basically a few steps above the planes they were using in the Second World War."

Hardly.