The Tennessee House Just Passed a Bill Completely Gutting Marriage Equality

originally posted by: frogs453
a reply to: JinMI

Someone posted a list above. A lot more government positions than just a judge or clerk.

Yea don't get me wrong frogs453 I'm completely for people being able to marry whomever.

I just think the proposed bill is conservative grandstanding for their base. It's got a ways to go before it becomes a law

here's a link about how bills become law in Tennessee,

www.capitol.tn.gov...

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Here it is, not much to it.

legiscan.com...

www.capitol.tn.gov...

a reply to: JinMI

Heck, my husband and I were both Christians and the pastor we went to and asked to officiate our marriage almost didn't do it because we weren't part of his congregation so he was unsure that our marriage would "stick" so to speak. He required us to undergo counseling with him before he would consent. Clearly, he had objections of conscience based on his lack of knowledge of who we were and our relationship.

If the people of the state dont kick the sitting reps out and reverse the ban, then its the will of the people of the state, dont like it dont move there.

That is how the system is supposed to work, I dont live there so ultimately whether I agree or disagree doesnt matter, they believe they are doing the will of their constituents.

a reply to: putnam6

I would say less grandstanding and more protecting the churches from having to worry about being sued by activists looking to make trouble. Don't pretend it doesn't happen. We all know it does.

The issue is that a lot of churches offer their facilities to weddings that aren't always simply within their congregation, and they were worried about liability should someone show up who did not align with the religious beliefs of the church. Most people who fall outside the religious beliefs of Christianity aren't seeking a church, but certain activists will to make a very messy and litigious point.

a reply to: ketsuko

Ive a small handful of those same anecdotes. I understand its more prevalent in Catholics but dont know if its factual.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

I love the outrage from one side on this. It completely ignores the fact that this law does not prohibit or prevent same sex marriage. It only prevents proponents of same sex marriage from forcing people who disagree with it into taking active rolls in the ceremony. No one should have a right to force someone to perform a ceremony they disagree with. Or bake a cake. Or anything else. Especially if there are people out there who will do it and have no problem with it...

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: ketsuko

Ive a small handful of those same anecdotes. I understand its more prevalent in Catholics but dont know if its factual.

We went to a Methodist because that's what I was raised. Turns out he actually knew my grandparents. But you are correct in that Catholics do a lot more education and counseling, especially if one partner is not Catholic and does not intend to be. I know that because my best friend is Catholic (I was the only Protestant at her weddings - long story, but she has been married twice now), and her first marriage was to an avowed atheist.

Bet those were fun sessions to be at.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: ohhchongo

How exactly does that work when the country clerk for the county you reside refuses to sign your marriage license?

County clerks don't solemnize marriages.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: putnam6

I would say less grandstanding and more protecting the churches from having to worry about being sued by activists looking to make trouble. Don't pretend it doesn't happen. We all know it does.

The issue is that a lot of churches offer their facilities to weddings that aren't always simply within their congregation, and they were worried about liability should someone show up who did not align with the religious beliefs of the church. Most people who fall outside the religious beliefs of Christianity aren't seeking a church, but certain activists will to make a very messy and litigious point.

Yea I hear you ketsuko, but how often does that happen really? I'd imagine if there was a county clerk who didn't want to sign but did, in the say past 5 years we would have heard about it.

for some perspective here's how the Kentucky case turned out, the clerk who refused dropped her appeal and she got voted out the next term.

www.nbcnews.com...

The new law provides “the very religious accommodation Davis sought from the beginning of this litigation,” Davis' lawyers claimed in the court papers.

The ACLU, which was party to the suit against Davis filed by four gay couples who were denied marriage licenses, offered no objections.

“We agree that Kim Davis’s appeals should be dismissed,” said James Esseks, director of the ACLU’s LGBT Project. “Once the new Kentucky law becomes effective, all loving couples seeking to obtain marriage licenses will be able to do so on an equal basis.”

“On the eve of the one-year anniversary of the Supreme Court’s ruling, we’re pleased that same-sex couples can fully realize legal recognition of their love, including in Rowan County, Kentucky,” added Louisville lawyer Daniel Canon, who represented one of the couples.

originally posted by: Nyiah
a reply to: Boadicea

I left my comment's wording vage, I wasn't entirely sure if they meant County Clerk for rubber-stamping, or an officiator, ie a priest, Elvis impersonator, or such.

Me too. And all the weasel words made me suspicious. Naturally.

Looks like the latter applies, so yes, moar folks need to get into the career instead of complaining. Gay wedding venues cropped up for this reason, along with the associated services.
Frankly, seeing as how people think it's a critically needed niche thing, eh, it might even end up easy money for the bolder (let's be real, folks, money lights fires under asses)

Exactly. People need to build their own community and create and establish
their own resources.

What does it cost to become ordained on the internet? A couple hundred $$ maybe? Take some baking and cake decorating courses. Or find budding bakers building their business who are happy to bake your cake... and spread the word.

A niche has been created just waiting to be filled!

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Meh.

Loopholes will always be found. And there will be as many to solemnize certificates as there are who won't.

People are going to have to deal with this if they are in a red state.

I feel it was naive of people to think they could break religious wiring so fast and easily. This is years upon years of social standards and practices trying to be undone with a few superhero movies breaking barriers and new school curriculum. This is seeded too deep into the psyche to be undone by that in any short period of time.

How long did desegregation take?

My Grandma, a church going Catholic Calabrese woman, died being horribly predjudice against Puerto Ricans and black people. Just never trusted them and their music. My Dad's family disowned him because my Mom was half Sicilian and half Calabrese. Low class. Too low class for a Genoa family.

And that was in 1970's New York. And I am 3rd Generation American.

Couldn't convince them otherwise. Sicilians were trash.

No society anywhere is beyond this.

All the the lecturing and indoctrination in the world isn't speeding it up any.

This is the natural part of trying to change social thinking. You can't really get pissed at Tennessee (or others States) because it happens in every culture and subculture over every forced consciousness expansion. Back and forth like this for at least a generation.

I'll say by maybe a dead issue by 2040.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

What I find funny is all the screaming about "Drag Bans".

What is being banned you might ask? Performing for children..... well no crap, you can't take your kids to the stipper clubs either... so discrimination!

Don't Perv on Kids, Don't screw with kids heads and bodies before they are old enough to truly make those decisions, how hard is that to understand?

a reply to: ketsuko

All the Catholics I know and 1 Southern Baptist couple. However I think that was perhaps because the brides family wanted to know the groom was really serious.

IDK. All anecdotes and third hand info.

a reply to: Degradation33

By the way, some things should NOT be changed.... Like perving on kids. There are just lines you don't cross.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
If the people of the state dont kick the sitting reps out and reverse the ban, then its the will of the people of the state, dont like it dont move there.

That is how the system is supposed to work, I dont live there so ultimately whether I agree or disagree doesnt matter, they believe they are doing the will of their constituents.

Exactly, if it isn't the will of the voters they won't be on the job for long ....

and thats what happened to the county clerk in Kentucky she was voted out

news.yahoo.com...

a reply to: putnam6

From your link:

Davis was found in contempt of court for not issuing the licenses and also stopping her six deputy clerks from signing them, and she spent five days in jail.

To her credit, she stood on her feet. However clearly not the right person for the job and on top of losing it, faced legal repercussions.

Now as it applies to the thread, she disnt solemnize the marriage for said certificate.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Well this is an interesting topic.
Nobody should be required to preform a marriage they disagree with, however a county clerk needs to shut the hell up and perform the job they are paid to do or get out.

The article says this.
“ Critics say the new bill goes beyond that and would empower county clerks to refuse to certify marriage licenses”
Now does the bill actually have wording that would make this statement true or is it more like the “don’t say gay” garbage the critics claimed in Florida?

I’m at the point where I don’t believe much of anything being reported as news.

a reply to: putnam6

Sadly, there are a lot of things that don't happen all that often that people have to be on guard against these days because who has the money for the legal battle of a lawsuit?

It may be vanishingly rare, but that won't help you if you win the lottery.

a reply to: Bluntone22

SENATE BILL 596
By Pody
HOUSE BILL 878
By Fritts
HB0878
002340
- 1 -
AN ACT to amend Tennessee Code Annotated, Title 4;
Title 29 and Title 36, relative to solemnization of
marriage.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE STATE OF TENNESSEE:
SECTION 1. Tennessee Code Annotated, Section 36-3-301, is amended by adding the
following as a new subsection:
(m) A person shall not be required to solemnize a marriage if the person has an
objection to solemnizing the marriage based on the person's conscience or religious
beliefs.
SECTION 2. This act takes effect upon becoming a law, the public welfare requiring it.

Thats it, thats the bill.