Eating ze bugs is a sign of the end times

originally posted by: Turquosie
a reply to: ketsuko

Somehow I doubt factory farm cattle are benificial to the environment.. Plus we can solve all these issues. It's not like eating animals is needed to sustain the environment. If anything, it's hurting the environment.

www.youtube.com...

Remove the cows and replace them with totally non-farting buffalo, deer, and elk that, btw, digest their food the exact same way that cows, sheep, and other ruminants do. Pretty sure you aren't saving anything by sacrificing to eat highly processed soy protein that pretends to bleed.

originally posted by: Tucket

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

"Latter times" does not equal "end times". Take for example the first example in verse 3, forbidding marriage. The first Church council forbidding marriage for the higher clergy was held at Elvira, Spain, in the fourth century. Over the centuries, other decrees reinforced this. Then, during the period of the Protestant Reformation of the sixteenth century, the Council of Trent passed legislation enforcing celibacy. It has remained much the same up to the present time.

Thus, celibacy has been acquired by tradition. As former high-ranking Catholic theologian Charles Davis said:

“The taboo was not Christian in origin; it is a very ancient one in the history of religion. Its introduction into Christianity was part of the general shift toward paganism . . .

“The insistence upon celibacy was reinforced in the Middle Ages by concern to keep Church property from passing under secular control.”

The doctrine of priestly celibacy does not originate with God, for his own Word clearly shows that his ministers are free to marry. (1 Tim. 3:2-4, 12) From where, then, do such doctrines that go contrary to God’s will originate? God’s own Word answers: “Now the Spirit expressly says that in after times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of devils, speaking lies hypocritically, and having their conscience branded. They will forbid marriage.”​—1 Tim. 4:1-3, Catholic Confraternity.

"After times", so after that was written, but not necessarily the end times. Also note that it isn't specifically referring to "meats" either in verse 3. Here's how the NW renders verse 3:

“They forbid marriage and command people to abstain from foods that God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who have faith and accurately know the truth.”

An example would be the Jewish traditions concerning what is deemed to be kosher to eat. The Mosaic Law in this regards no longer applies.

On the Biblehub website where you can compare different translations, you can see that all the Bible translations that aren't based on (derivative of) the KJ, use "foods" rather than "meats". Even the New King James Version uses "foods". If you go to the Greek tab, again, they translate that particular Greek word as "from foods". If in that tab you click the link to Strong's Concordance (first column, 1033. bróma) you see:

bróma: food
Definition: food
Usage: food of any kind.

a reply to: ketsuko

Sure you are - you're saving animals from a lifetime of torture. Regarding the environmental discussion, I'm not sure exactly how much animals affect the environment as I believe other factors are much more prevelant than crop and animal production. Your video argued that going vegan would produce only a small positive environmental impact.

If that is true, then at least it's something. However, the main arguement I propose to stop eating meat is on the suffering of animals.

I believe our current treatment of animals is barbaric and if we cannot treat lower lifeforms with an ounce of respect, then how can we expect extraterrestrials to?

Therefore, I argue that if one wants ETs to treat us with respect, then we must show that we can avoid eating animals purely out of taste/desire. Along with other things, like working towards peace and stepping away from materialism.

And as a side note, the super processed soy "that bleeds" isn't all that healthy. If you want to try veganism, go with a purely whole foods diet of organic soy, beans, grains, and other vegtables.

a reply to: Turquosie

LOL 'lifetime of torture' !

Properly pastured, grass fed, free range cattle (most if not ALL of the meat around me) is just as happy as any deer you may hunt, or any wild oxen.

a reply to: chris_stibrany

And how about when the cattle gets to the slaughterhouses? Are they happy then? Because from what Iv'e seen is pretty horrific in slaughterhouses.

And lets say they are happy living in a free range and the slaughterhouses are the most ethical possible with little to no suffering - that still doesn't change the LARGE majority of animal processing which is full of unethical practices that leave the animals to suffer their whole lives.

And obviously the entirety of the world isn't going to go vegan/vegetarian at once. But slowly transitioning to those diets would reduce factory farming, which is the main villian here.

It's much more practical to eat veggies and transition to a vegan lifestyle than somehow get the world to initiate ethical animal production.

a reply to: Turquosie

Enjoy your Beyond! Burgers and your soylent green. I will continue eating a balanced diet including meat and dairy, as we have evolved to do. Start getting into the bugs now, while you're at it..... What about their suffering? The poor dears...

a reply to: chris_stibrany

I'm not sure how much bugs "suffer", but I don't eat them. Since, it's not vegan and also a bit gross to me . Feel free to do as you please, but studies have shown that a vegan diet is healthy at all stages of life. Especially healthy for heart disease, which a diet heavy in diary and meat isnt'.

So if you want to come over to the veggie side, we'll be waiting It's tasty and guilt-free over here.

Gross

I have no guilt

a reply to: Turquosie

The question of becoming a vegetarian—or remaining one—is strictly a matter for individual decision. Because of health, economics, ecology, or compassion for animals, a person may choose to follow a vegetarian regimen. But he must recognize it as only one way of eating. He should not criticize those who choose to eat meat, just as one who eats meat should not condemn a vegetarian. Eating meat or refraining from it does not make one a better person.

“Welcome the man having weaknesses in his faith, but do not pass judgment on differing opinions. One man has faith to eat everything, but the man who is weak eats only vegetables. Let the one eating not look down on the one not eating, and let the one not eating not judge the one eating, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to judge the servant of another?” “Therefore, let us not judge one another any longer but, rather, be determined not to put a stumbling block or an obstacle before a brother. I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; only where a man considers something to be unclean, to him it is unclean. For if your brother is being offended because of food, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not by your food ruin* [Or “destroy.”] that one for whom Christ died.” (Romans 14:1-4,13-15)

originally posted by: Turquosie
but studies have shown that a vegan diet is healthy at all stages of life.

No they have not, in any stage of life. The first thing you need is milk.

a reply to: LordAhriman

A mother's milk is vegan. And the Position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics deemed vegetarian and vegan diets that are adequetly nutritious are healthy at all stages in life.

FYI - people survived for a long time without cows milk and many people are lactose intolerant. So not sure if you are trying to argue that people need cows milk.. but they don't.

Perhaps you could supply a study that shows a vegan diet is not healthy. Because I have not seen any. Maybe you're reading too many industry-funded studies that try to encourage more diary and meat consumption?

originally posted by: Turquosie
a reply to: Tucket

So God is fine with humanity torturing animals in factory farms, but eating plants and not harming living beings is a sign of the end times?

Ummm... factory farming plants for plant based diets tortures/murders far more animals than the commercial cattle industry.

And when compared to sane, rational regenerative farming practices - well, there is no comparison. Cattle raised on regenerative farms are treated amazingly well, and live a very decent life, right up until the time they are harvested.

If this isn't another clear sign that religious doctrines were created by mortal men of the time, then I don't know what is.

Funny you should mention religion, you know, since the entire vegan movement was started by a religious cult leader back in the 1800s, because she believed that masturbation was a sin, and since eating meat made everyone much more virile and strong, it promoted sexual activity and masturbation, so promoting a vegan diet basically biochemically castrated/neutered everyone.

All because of a sill belief that Jesus wouldn't return unless/until everyone was vegan.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: Tucket

Vegan and gluten free options are just being considerate to consumers. I don't see any legislation prohibiting the sale of conventional protein. Schwab is just an investor, a moneybags mcgee who declares visionary ambitions but has no office to implement them.

Yes, and if you truly believe that, then you are evidently naive, blind and/or just plain ignorant.

All you have to do is look around and see what is going on - especially right now as the Dutch farmers are being slowly/surely forced to liquidate their cattle industry - a program coming soon to a cattle ranch near you.

originally posted by: Turquosie
a reply to: chris_stibrany

Our current ecosystem of meat is not natural. It's manmade system of production. So we could easily convert from manmade systems of meat production to veggie production overtime.

We could, but we'd be torturing/murdering far more little animals than we are now, and we'd be dramatically less healthy.

Humans are, by our very nature, obligate hyper-carnivores, who just so happen to be able to eat some plant foods when survival demands - meaning, when we can't get enough fatty meat.

originally posted by: Turquosie
a reply to: ketsuko

Sure you are - you're saving animals from a lifetime of torture.

God, I'm sick of this ridiculous falsehood being propagated by rabid vegan acolytes.

Those practicing regenerative farming in the beef industry treat their animals extremely well right up to the end. Even in the commercial cattle industry, they aren't tortured their entire lives and indeed are treated fairly well for the most part. I freely admit that the slaughtering process in commercial meat processors can be gruesome, which is why I'm a huge advocate of transitioning farms to regenerative practices.

Regarding the environmental discussion, I'm not sure exactly how much animals affect the environment as I believe other factors are much more prevelant than crop and animal production.

It depends... regenerative farming practices have a huge net positive environmental impact.

In fact, Allan Savory is the pioneer of Regenerative Agriculture who has been using cattle herds to bring dry/arid lands back to lush green prairies that can easily support large herds of cows.

Also, as someone else already pointed out, the kind of lands cattle need for grazing simply can not be used for growing plant crops. Ever.

So, if you truly care about the environment, you should immediately start learning about the power of Regenerative Agriculture.

Your video argued that going vegan would produce only a small positive environmental impact.

I would argue it would be a large negative impact, if for no other reason than the tremendously negative impact on the health of every man woman and child that was forced to forego eating the one food that we as humans are actually nbot only intended to eat genetically, but that very food that promotes vital, optimal health.

If that is true, then at least it's something. However, the main arguement I propose to stop eating meat is on the suffering of animals.

It is a false narrative. Again, commercial plant agriculture produces far more pain, misery and death of animals (not cattle, but smaller furry little creatures that my kids go absolutely batsnip crazy over).

I believe our current treatment of animals is barbaric and if we cannot treat lower lifeforms with an ounce of respect, then how can we expect extraterrestrials to?

I don't totally disagree, we could definitely treat our animals better in general, but they are still animals.

Therefore, I argue that if one wants ETs to treat us with respect, then we must show that we can avoid eating animals purely out of taste/desire.

It isn't about taste/desire. It is about eating the most nutritionally dense food that our digestive systems are actyually evolutionarily designed to consume.

And as a side note, the super processed soy "that bleeds" isn't all that healthy. If you want to try veganism, go with a purely whole foods diet of organic soy, beans, grains, and other vegtables.

Organic soy is no healtheir than GMO sos, and beans, grains and vegetables are animal food (if anything).

originally posted by: Turquosie
a reply to: chris_stibrany

... studies have shown that a vegan diet is healthy at all stages of life. Especially healthy for heart disease, which a diet heavy in diary and meat isnt'.

Yeah, no, there are ZERO real studies showing anything of the kind for a vegan or any other diet.

There are lots of fake, manufactured observational/epidemiological 'studies' that make the attempt, but they are trash, so there is that.

So if you want to come over to the veggie side, we'll be waiting

It's tasty and guilt-free over here.

Tasty!?!? What a load of poop. There is a reason that 99+% of babies/small children must be forced to eat their veggies - because they are anything BUT 'tasty'.

originally posted by: whereislogic
He should not criticize those who choose to eat meat, just as one who eats meat should not condemn a vegetarian.

I only dondemn vegans/vegetarians who try to guilt/shame others into not eating meat by spewing a bunch of lies about how it is 'better'. It (veganism/vegetarianism) is neither better for animals, or for the earth, or for human health.

Eating meat or refraining from it does not make one a better person.

I would vehemently disagree, as would a large and growing number of people who have thrned their lives around in sometimes miraculous ways by going very low carb, and/or carnivore.

“Welcome the man having weaknesses in his faith, but do not pass judgment on differing opinions. One man has faith to eat everything, but the man who is weak eats only vegetables. Let the one eating not look down on the one not eating, and let the one not eating not judge the one eating, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to judge the servant of another?” “Therefore, let us not judge one another any longer but, rather, be determined not to put a stumbling block or an obstacle before a brother. I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; only where a man considers something to be unclean, to him it is unclean. For if your brother is being offended because of food, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not by your food ruin* [Or “destroy.”] that one for whom Christ died.” (Romans 14:1-4,13-15)

Interesting bit of scripture, thanks!

originally posted by: Turquosie
a reply to: LordAhriman

A mother's milk is vegan.

Seriously? Do vegans consume milk?

Sorry friend, you just completely and totally destroyed any credibility you may have had with... I don't know, maybe no one here...

And the Position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics deemed vegetarian and vegan diets that are adequetly nutritious are healthy at all stages in life.

Yeah, thanks, I'll trust my own sane, rational faculties over government organizations with an ax to grind and an agenda to push.

FYI - people survived for a long time without cows milk and many people are lactose intolerant. So not sure if you are trying to argue that people need cows milk.. but they don't.

Agreed, but that is irrelevant to the fact that vegans don't consume milk, and you just claimed that milk is vegan.

Perhaps you could supply a study that shows a vegan diet is not healthy.

You have yet to show one that shows it is.

I won't wait, because they don't exist.

Oh - and I mean a real, actual study, not an epidemiological 'study' that can never show causation for anything, only correlation, and even those, when looked at by someone who knows how to read them, any and every one t hat tries to show a positive for vegan/vegetarian diets is shown to be either just really poorly done, or they outright falsified and/or manipulated the data.

a reply to: tanstaafl_javascript:hyperlink()

Not sure how eating veggies would kill little animals - unless you're refering to animals that may die during crop harvest. Which doesn't make sense because just as many crops, if not more, are used to feed livestock.

Secondly, most people (not all) can live off a vegan or vegetarian diet. Plenty of people have lived many years and even entire lives with a vegan diet who are very healthy. So I don't understand the notion that we "have" to eat meat. Because there is plenty of people who live healthy lives without it.