Florida Health Department: Health Alert on mRNA COVID-19 Vaccine Safety

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: flice

Is risk of Covid death worse than increased risk of cardiovascular death 5 years down the line cause by the vaccine? NO....

This is where you are not willing to look at the whole picture being so focused on just the vaccine. All these risks you suggest are mainly from the spike protein, so pick your poison. Everyone will get COVID, so everyone will have the spike protein in them. The key is to minimize the time the protein is in you so if you can get over the virus in a few days then there should not be any issues and the vaccine has provided this very successfully to the high-risk groups. We have also seen most cardiovascular issues are within a couple of months or less and so your 5 years is just hyperbole mostly. I'm sure you have heard of long COVID and that has mainly been issues with people who are sick for over a week plus, so that there is the key to keep it down to as few days as possible.

The direction countries and some states have taken can easily tell you what the problem is.

The UK is trying hard to exonerate those responsible by making the mRNA products not available to anyone under the age of 50. But it's too late for this.

Florida is trying to suspend these products issuing a major health alert and Idaho is trying to criminalise anyone who administers them in their state. Other states and countries have expressed concerns about these products.

Their fate will be similar to the vaccines by Astrazeneca and J & J

a reply to: Xtrozero

You are not correct in relation to the spike protein. This is a major issue for pathogenesis especially in the young and healthy.

You are making a response against the virus and after a few days or maybe a week or so, the show for the virus is over. No more spike protein.and no more virus multiplication.

The situation is very different with the spike protein created by your cells. This process can last for a long period of time and then the free spike protein can travel pretty much everywhere and cause inflammation such as inflammation of the heart.

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

The State of Florida has issued a major health warning in relation to these junk products that are experimental, untested, and potentially hazardous. It is quite disingenuous for someone to claim these products are safe and effective or that have been tested. It takes a rather long period of time to establish safety and effectiveness.

You keep saying this almost daily while not understanding the realities of how most trials play out. Long term safety data is accomplished after the drug has been approved and is then monitored. It seems you just ignore this fact over and over.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

The State of Florida has issued a major health warning in relation to these junk products that are experimental, untested, and potentially hazardous. It is quite disingenuous for someone to claim these products are safe and effective or that have been tested. It takes a rather long period of time to establish safety and effectiveness.

You keep saying this almost daily while not understanding the realities of how most trials play out. Long term safety data is accomplished after the drug has been approved and is then monitored. It seems you just ignore this fact over and over.

Yes I do. And many others here do also understand the realities of vaccine trials. They have tried to squeeze all clinical phase trials in a little over than a year. Phase 3 doesn't last for months as far as I know. .. And here where we are!

The UK is trying hard to exonerate those responsible by making the mRNA products not available to anyone under the age of 50. But it's too late for this.

Florida is trying to suspend these products issuing a major health alert and Idaho is trying to criminalise anyone who administers them in their state. Other states and countries have expressed concerns about these products.


There are several people who have been harmed or even killed by these produces and many legal cases to come.

No safety and effectiveness has been established. The opposite has happened.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: flice

Covid vax did NOT thouroughly tested before it was rolled out. There is no debate about that.

What does that mean... seems to be something people just read and repeat over and over. All trails follow the same path, and the time span has very little to do with "testing for years" as that part actually starts after approval since then a much larger pool of people can show us the rarer adverse effects.

As to your HPV vaccine...

A controversial new review of the HPV vaccine, which is recommended for boys and girls to prevent different types of cancer, suggests the shot’s safety was not adequately tested in the clinical trials leading up to its approval.

They are testing a new one too hoping it works on older people and people with current HPV which the first one doesn't. Look that the trials below for that one.

Broadest ever therapeutic HPV vaccine to be tested in clinical trial...
The team hopes to recruit 105 women aged 25 to 55 with a persistent high-risk HPV infection. While 73 will be given two shots of a particular dose of the vaccine, the rest receive a placebo. They will then be tested for the presence of HPV over a period of 12 months.

So, who are you and others to explain how long a trail process is supposed to be?

Incorrect... normally it would go like this

- Pre-clinical: months to years
- Phase 0 Clinical: 10 - 20
- Phase 1 Clinical: 20 - 100 subjects, several months
- Phase 2 Clinical: several 100s, several months to 2 years
- Phase 3 Clinical: 300 - 3.000, several years
Rolled out
- Phase 4 Clinical, post market: 100s - 1000s, minimum 2 years (long term safety)

Supposedly, according to this site National Center for Immuninization Research, the Covid-19 stages were combined and / or overlapped eachother due to previous work on the Sars and Mers viruses.

The interesting thing here is that they were indeed working on a vaccine for the Sars-Cov1 virus in 2011, but had to cancel the research because the mice either died or sustained serious injury to their lung tissue due to cytokine storm cause by the vaccine.
Before they got any futher Cov1 died out.
(We could also dive into how there was almost a vaccine for HIV, but it was also cancelled because it caused VAIDS in the test subjects)

BUT, regardless of that site stating as such, it does not do well, to explain or justify how you can compress stage 3 to that degree regardless of an emergency situation, which we now know there wasn't except for the elderly and those at risk.

Stage 3 was that length, because that's how long it takes to review how the person fares with the vaccine in the system. Adverse events are not about what will happen in 2 weeks, 4 weeks or 6 months exclusively, it could be years, because it's about how the body's cells act with the foreign substance inside. Cell's have a specific speed at which they operate. You can't hurry that up.

And as I was told:
- Mice lie and monkey's mislead.

There is not other accurate way of determining long term effects in human, than testing in humans for a long time. Anything else will be guess work.

As for the HPV vaccine. Well, that just goes to show... even with an adequate amount of time, we can't be sure they did the testing properly. And don't tell me that testing with Covid was done more properly in 12 % of the required time.

Facts remains...
- They didn't follow GLP, because they were allowed to.
- They were aware of free spikes which has now been confirmed by peer reviewed studies.
- They withheld the information about lipids gather in the mice ovaries. Which can now be connected with the study coming out peer reviewed on March 1st, detailing a vast increase of disruptions in womens reproductive system post Covid-19 vaccine.

And when we know this, why should we question the amount of adverse events reported after roll-out?
We shouldn't, because the vaccines were NOT thouroughly tested. They were rushed, to soothe political pressure overreacting to a situation that cause everyone in charge to feel a sense of "being needed" or "being relevant".

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

Yes I do. And many others here do also understand the realities of vaccine trials.

You say this even after I posted an example...

Broadest ever therapeutic HPV vaccine to be tested in clinical trial...
The team hopes to recruit 105 women aged 25 to 55 with a persistent high-risk HPV infection. While 73 will be given two shots of a particular dose of the vaccine, the rest receive a placebo. They will then be tested for the presence of HPV over a period of 12 months.

originally posted by: flice

Incorrect... normally it would go like this

- Pre-clinical: months to years
- Phase 0 Clinical: 10 - 20
- Phase 1 Clinical: 20 - 100 subjects, several months
- Phase 2 Clinical: several 100s, several months to 2 years
- Phase 3 Clinical: 300 - 3.000, several years
Rolled out
- Phase 4 Clinical, post market: 100s - 1000s, minimum 2 years (long term safety)

What was incorrect? Me posting an actual trial?

Trials are typically 1 to 4 years, so not sure your point here. The length is more based on how many participants they can get to test. Some illnesses take a longer time to build up the people needed. With the COVID vaccine they used over 30,000 people in Phase 3 alone, we are now past post market by 1.5+ years with 13 billion shots given...

Why are we all still talking about this?

a reply to: Xtrozero

Please give concrete examples of new vaccines before Covid-19 that was rolled out in 1-4 years.

a reply to: Xtrozero

It has dawned on me you have no idea what you are talking about to be honest. I shall not entertain your posts any longer.

Johns Hopkins

A typical vaccine development timeline takes 5 to 10 years, and sometimes longer, to assess whether the vaccine is safe and efficacious in clinical trials, complete the regulatory approval processes, and manufacture sufficient quantity of vaccine doses for widespread distribution.

And as for Covid-19 phase-3 using 30.000 people. It doesn't show efficiency, it shows irresponsibility and wrecklessness.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

Yes I do. And many others here do also understand the realities of vaccine trials.

You say this even after I posted an example...

Broadest ever therapeutic HPV vaccine to be tested in clinical trial...
The team hopes to recruit 105 women aged 25 to 55 with a persistent high-risk HPV infection. While 73 will be given two shots of a particular dose of the vaccine, the rest receive a placebo. They will then be tested for the presence of HPV over a period of 12 months.

And?? Does this mean all clinical phase trials will conclude in 12 months?

Can you find me another vaccine in the history of medicine and immunology that has been given into billions of people and has been fast-tracked? I.e all clinical phase trials to have been conducted in a little more than a year.

originally posted by: flice


Please give concrete examples of new vaccines before Covid-19 that was rolled out in 1-4 years.

Please go back a read the 100s of posts on all this... I really hate rehashing the same thing over and over, nothing new here.

originally posted by: flice

It has dawned on me you have no idea what you are talking about to be honest. I shall not entertain your posts any longer.

It is also dawning on me that you just do not read your own links.

Phase 2 trials can be completed in three to four months, allowing for longer follow-up to better assess safety and immunogenicity. This timeline is shortened when phase 1 and phase 2 trials are combined.

Phase 3 trials may take six to nine months to allow early assessment of safety and efficacy, particularly if conducted in areas with a high risk of infection, but with follow-up continuing for two years or more to assess long-term safety and efficacy.

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

And?? Does this mean all clinical phase trials will conclude in 12 months?

I didn't say all... I'm suggesting that trials can be 1 to 4 years, some most likely longer for rarer illnesses. Why is that so hard to comprehend...

Can you find me another vaccine in the history of medicine and immunology that has been given into billions of people and has been fast-tracked? I.e all clinical phase trials to have been conducted in a little more than a year.

So, do you want to compare the process of mRNA to technics from the 50s? Today there are like 400k trials in progress, and they have increasing become not only more efficient in less time needed but have increased data point collection by over 60% in just the last 15 years alone. Something like mRNA can be sequenced in like a day, so it is really hard to say one thing or another as to how long a trial today should be compared to years in the past.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

And?? Does this mean all clinical phase trials will conclude in 12 months?

I didn't say all... I'm suggesting that trials can be 1 to 4 years, some most likely longer for rarer illnesses. Why is that so hard to comprehend...

Can you find me another vaccine in the history of medicine and immunology that has been given into billions of people and has been fast-tracked? I.e all clinical phase trials to have been conducted in a little more than a year.

So, do you want to compare the process of mRNA to technics from the 50s? Today there are like 400k trials in progress, and they have increasing become not only more efficient in less time needed but have increased data point collection by over 60% in just the last 15 years alone. Something like mRNA can be sequenced in like a day, so it is really hard to say one thing or another as to how long a trial today should be compared to years in the past.

I will repeat this

Can you find me another vaccine in the history of medicine and immunology that has been given into billions of people and has been fast-tracked? I.e all clinical phase trials to have been conducted in a little more than a year.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: flice

It has dawned on me you have no idea what you are talking about to be honest. I shall not entertain your posts any longer.

It is also dawning on me that you just do not read your own links.

Phase 2 trials can be completed in three to four months, allowing for longer follow-up to better assess safety and immunogenicity. This timeline is shortened when phase 1 and phase 2 trials are combined.

Phase 3 trials may take six to nine months to allow early assessment of safety and efficacy, particularly if conducted in areas with a high risk of infection, but with follow-up continuing for two years or more to assess long-term safety and efficacy.

Which clinical phase3 trial takes only 6 to 9 months? Can you name me the vaccines for this and if it happened in the past?

Do you think you can buy time given some new technology?

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

And?? Does this mean all clinical phase trials will conclude in 12 months?

I didn't say all... I'm suggesting that trials can be 1 to 4 years, some most likely longer for rarer illnesses. Why is that so hard to comprehend...

Can you find me another vaccine in the history of medicine and immunology that has been given into billions of people and has been fast-tracked? I.e all clinical phase trials to have been conducted in a little more than a year.

So, do you want to compare the process of mRNA to technics from the 50s? Today there are like 400k trials in progress, and they have increasing become not only more efficient in less time needed but have increased data point collection by over 60% in just the last 15 years alone. Something like mRNA can be sequenced in like a day, so it is really hard to say one thing or another as to how long a trial today should be compared to years in the past.

The number of participants in a trial doesn't buy you time. However you are likely to see, given a larger number of participants more clearly some short term effects from the products and get a better understanding about the immune responses of different age groups.

a reply to: Xtrozero

From the site above

A typical vaccine development timeline takes 5 to 10 years, and sometimes longer, to assess whether the vaccine is safe and efficacious in clinical trials, complete the regulatory approval processes, and manufacture sufficient quantity of vaccine doses for widespread distribution.

And again

Can you find me another vaccine in the history of medicine and immunology that has been given into billions of people and has been fast-tracked? I.e all clinical phase trials to have been conducted in a little more than a year.

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

Which clinical phase3 trial takes only 6 to 9 months? Can you name me the vaccines for this and if it happened in the past?

Do you think you can buy time given some new technology?

I got that info from their link, go ask them...lol

I think you can make things more efficient.

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

From the site above

A typical vaccine development timeline takes 5 to 10 years, and sometimes longer, to assess whether the vaccine is safe and efficacious in clinical trials, complete the regulatory approval processes, and manufacture sufficient quantity of vaccine doses for widespread distribution.

Lol and then keep reading, geez even you can't read...

So, you do know that the term development is not just the trials which is like the last part of it all.

Can you find me another vaccine in the history of medicine and immunology that has been given into billions of people and has been fast-tracked? I.e all clinical phase trials to have been conducted in a little more than a year.

I just linked one twice...you want it three times? There are 400k+ going on right now.. Go look...it's not a big deal to me, but it seems like something you would get into.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

From the site above

A typical vaccine development timeline takes 5 to 10 years, and sometimes longer, to assess whether the vaccine is safe and efficacious in clinical trials, complete the regulatory approval processes, and manufacture sufficient quantity of vaccine doses for widespread distribution.

Lol and then keep reading, geez even you can't read...

So, you do know that the term development is not just the trials which is like the last part of it all.

Can you find me another vaccine in the history of medicine and immunology that has been given into billions of people and has been fast-tracked? I.e all clinical phase trials to have been conducted in a little more than a year.

I just linked one twice...you want it three times? There are 400k+ going on right now.. Go look...it's not a big deal to me, but it seems like something you would get into.

So I will ask you again

Can you find me another vaccine in the history of medicine and immunology that has been given into billions of people and has been fast-tracked? I.e all clinical phase trials to have been conducted in a little more than a year.

If you re talking about the HPV vaccine is something that will happen in the future as your text says. But that doesn't mean all clinical phase trials will be concluded in 12 months.