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Could the Chinese have been attempting a nuclear / EMP attack with balloons over the weekend

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posted on Feb, 14 2023 @ 03:23 PM
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One theory is that these balloons could either carry hypersonic nuclear weapons or be used to detonate an EMP blast across parts of the U.S:


The US seems to give up on spy balloon claims, but there are new claims. According to Paul Crespo, President of the US Centre for Defence Studies, the balloon moving across US and Canadian national airspace was a test for an attack using weapons that would be attached to the balloon.


China Uses Balloons to Test EMP Attack

This excerpt shows how damaging such a blast would be:


According to US military experts, a successful EMP attack over the East Coast could kill 90 percent of the population on the East Coast within a year of an attack, and it could take 18 months to restore the electricity grid and social order.

Around 99 nuclear reactors would likely melt down without electricity to cool them, and about 4.1 million people would have to displace from areas around the nuclear plants.


Catastrophic Impact! US Experts Flag The Threat Of EMP Attack By China But Biden Administration Reluctant To Act

This is a great research article someone wrote about EMP attacks by balloon. They can do considerable damage, and are hard to detect. The article goes on to explore historic balloon launches, altitudes, and payloads as well as the optimal altitude and techniques for conducting such an EMP attack:

EMP Attack By Balloon: Future Science

There is something that does not add up about these objects, there are more questions than answers. Some people think they are UFOs. They could be Chinese. But why would China need balloons to do surveillance? Don't they have satellites?

It would be interesting to compare the altitudes of the objects shot down to the optimal EMP detonation altitudes, as well as to know the weight of the payloads on these 4 objects, if they were all balloons.

Another theory, some people think they could be aliens - they say the reptilians in particular fly in cylindrical "tic-tac" UFOs.

The most likely theory might be that the new objects were weather balloons. However, I feel like there is more to the story than that from the way the White House is acting.
edit on 14pmTue, 14 Feb 2023 15:28:28 -0600kbpmkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 14 2023 @ 03:49 PM
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a reply to: darkbake

How many US instillations are abroad? How many subs are in the ocean?

Why would China hit one of their largest trading partners with a guaranteed retaliation that would equal their attack?

Doesn’t add up.



posted on Feb, 14 2023 @ 03:51 PM
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a reply to: darkbake

EMP operates pretty much line of sight to the horizon. The highest altitude of these most recent small objects was 40,000 ft. At that altitude, the line of sight distance is about 245 miles. At that range, you would need probably a dozen or so to cover the US. Also, they would have to actually be controllable to target the exact locations needed, and these small objects weren't. Also, the total lift capacity of these objects--if they were balloons--would only be about 10 pounds or so. That's based on taking the volume of an object described as the size of "a small car" (about 11 cubic meters) , assuming that it was filled with Helium and calculating its lift at 40,000 ft. That's far too small to carry a nuclear device of any significance.



posted on Feb, 14 2023 @ 03:53 PM
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Being truly realistic, I don't see that possibility from these events.

The lightest possible equipment, engineered to perform the type of attack necessary to cause that level damage, probably can't be carted over here on a balloon. Perhaps smuggling the parts in, via a series of balloons, and having an agent assemble the weapon on the ground? But it's probably not something that can float over here on one balloon, and knock out a large geographic area.



posted on Feb, 14 2023 @ 03:57 PM
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Too heavy. The three objects, if balloons cound not weight 25 pounds each.

That would not be much of a nuke and too low for nuclear EMP. The batteries would be too heavy for an EMP weapon. Also too high for an non nuke EMP to be affective at any reasonable range.

Now, sprinkling a biological weapon might be feasible.
edit on 2 14 2023 by beyondknowledge because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 14 2023 @ 03:58 PM
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With that reasoning why wouldn't China help the USA with our global affairs, since they don't want anything bad to happen to one of their largest trading partners?

You'd think China would support the USA more often, because we're one of their largest trading partners.
Strange, they seem like an adversary sometimes.


a reply to: CriticalStinker

Why would China hit one of their largest trading partners with a guaranteed retaliation that would equal their attack?


edit on 14-2-2023 by fringeofthefringe because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 14 2023 @ 03:58 PM
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Very unlikely.

An EMP requires a nuclear detonation, it requires fissile forces that create magnetic fields. It is very unlikely one of those balloons could carry even fraction of the weight needed to create that. Imagine that balloon carrying a military tank.

Some of those balloons were shot down at 40,000ft, some at 60,000ft. An EMP would be completely pointless if fired off below the ionosphere and did not use the ionosphere to amplify the EMP. Anything fired off that low would also create a blast that would completely negate the purpose of the EMP.

The ionosphere starts at about 180,000 feet and goes up to over a million feet up. You fire it off in low ionosphere and it will have a great impact.

This is was just for surveillance. The closer you get the more signals you can pick up.



posted on Feb, 14 2023 @ 04:02 PM
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originally posted by: 1947boomer
a reply to: darkbake

That's far too small to carry a nuclear device of any significance.


Correct. The idea that these balloons are intended as an EMP attack is just a scare tactic promulgated by individuals who are woefully ignorant of the issues involved.



posted on Feb, 14 2023 @ 04:04 PM
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a reply to: fringeofthefringe

If we’re being polite, we’re competitive adversaries. Clearly as of recent though, it probably goes a bit past that considering we have different foreign policies as you’ve pointed out.

But there’s a couple of steps we’re skipping for them to want to EMP mainland US.

And again, they could EMP all of US territories and there would be subs and aircraft carriers that would reign hate on them. Again, it makes no sense. Mutually assured destruction, and for what?



posted on Feb, 14 2023 @ 04:08 PM
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As previously mentioned, if China EMP'ed us that way, our subs would wipe most of China off the map. Not to mention our carrier groups that are at sea could cause serious harm to anyone interested in getting frisky as well.



posted on Feb, 14 2023 @ 04:14 PM
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The balloons have nothing to do with our power grid.

During the Obama administration over 200 large power transformers were bought from China, effectively giving them the control to shut down much of the US power grid.

Trump banned the use of Chinese equipment in any capacity for use in our infrastructure, which is one of the first EO's Biden overturned.

Just because China can do it cheaper doesn't mean it's better-or a good idea.

[www.washingtonexaminer.com...]


From the Trump administration:

For economic and security reasons, the United States should no longer purchase transformers and other electric grid equipment manufactured in China. It is important to end relationships that U.S. utilities have directly with Chinese businesses and multi-national companies manufacturing transformers in China.

These actions are envisioned under a May 1 Executive Order President Trump issued on protecting the bulk-power grid. Chinese power equipment provided to the U.S. can be embedded with software and hardware to remotely commit mischief from Beijing, enhancing its ability to commit cyberattacks.

Such items will not be easy to find. Large power transformers are huge, and weigh between 100 and 400 tons.

There is also a hardware risk. Counterfeit items are common throughout China and can easily be put into large power transformers, knowingly or unwittingly. Even if China is not presently doing this, the potential risks are too high.

Meanwhile, Chinese transformer manufacturers are thriving. On its website, JiangSu HuaPeng Transformer Co. (JSHP Transformer) boasts that it has recently completed projects for customers in Houston, Las Vegas, and New Jersey. On August 5, Baobian Electric shipped the first of three phase reactors to the New Mexico Public Utilities Service Company.

[www.realclearenergy.org...]

The Biden administration should have come with free Ambien sleep aid.



posted on Feb, 14 2023 @ 04:19 PM
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To low and to light to be an EMP.

Someone above mentioned BIO, I suppose that's possible.

Most likely just photos and ELINT.



posted on Feb, 14 2023 @ 04:30 PM
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There are non-nuclear EMP's that have been developed. There were a few good articles a few years ago I read about what the Chinese and Russians have developed in comparison to the US.

The optimum height for an EMP blast is roughly 20 miles up. That would be between 90 and 100k feet. That is how high the one that travelled over the US was which is why I could not believe it was allowed to transverse. To me there was nothing to learrn from it especially as we now know they have been known for quite awhile now.

The last 3 were not EMP possible and would not yield what they would want.

A dry run for reaction? Sure. Would they pull the trigger? Right now, anything is possible.

If this were to happen we also could not simply level China. It does not work that way. I understand MAD and how we could want to but...we couldn't. Whoever strikes first will be looked up as the ultimate aggressor so think about the countries who do not care what people think on a world stage and you have your answer as to who would do it.



posted on Feb, 14 2023 @ 04:34 PM
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Fair enough.
I am still wondering why the USA or any other country for that matter did not vigorously pursue the origins of Covid-19.
I also wonder why our government has changed our stance of preventing and holding accountable China when it comes to intellectual property and spying.
I believe China wants to dominate the global power structure, a position that the USA has held for a very long time.
In my opinion China is not our friend here in America, China is behind our social decay and has bribed many key political officials who are " selling out" our country, the USA. China is given unfair trade status and has not helped our country in anyway I see. To me China is the enemy and they will only stop after they defeat us, preferably without firing a bullet.
Thanks for keeping it polite, I will too.


originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: fringeofthefringe

If we’re being polite, we’re competitive adversaries. Clearly as of recent though, it probably goes a bit past that considering we have different foreign policies as you’ve pointed out.

But there’s a couple of steps we’re skipping for them to want to EMP mainland US.

And again, they could EMP all of US territories and there would be subs and aircraft carriers that would reign hate on them. Again, it makes no sense. Mutually assured destruction, and for what?

edit on 14-2-2023 by fringeofthefringe because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 14 2023 @ 04:58 PM
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a reply to: fringeofthefringe

The faster we ween ourselves off of our China reliance the better. I’m pleasantly surprised with how we’re trending on that ambition, which isn’t to say we’re doing it as fast as I liked, but rather I’m surprised we’re doing it at all.

Luckily between supply chain shock, their horrible policy, and the fact they’re pricing themselves out competitively compared to other countries it’s only a matter of time they’re a normal trading partner as opposed to a dominant one.

I don’t really have much trust for them in terms of a healthy relationship in the coming future, but I’m skeptical we’d come to blows past a limited conventional conflict.



posted on Feb, 14 2023 @ 05:14 PM
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a reply to: Archivalist

well it COULD, but not by anything we've seen so far. a 45' balloon can lift about 10lbs.

as a pure guess (kinda) I'm going to say that the lightest effective pumped EMP is going to weigh 50lbs.

That would be my DOD criteria, BTW. if a balloon could be carrying over 40lbs, splash it.

Note: It would be MUCH EASIER to drop them from orbit. from their all-up space station or myriad satellites.



posted on Feb, 14 2023 @ 05:26 PM
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Could the Chinese have been attempting a nuclear / EMP attack with balloons over the weekend

No.
Next question



posted on Feb, 14 2023 @ 05:43 PM
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a reply to: darkbake

omg... you guys are getting more and more paranoid.
Plus it makes no sense at all.

WW3 is trotted out to sow fear... it never will be a reality unless someone screws up.
There is no point in the destruction of the planet.
and that friends is what would happen.. so relax.

No Nukes and no emp's

Just war constantly and fear and slavery .. yay the modern world.



posted on Feb, 14 2023 @ 05:49 PM
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a reply to: darkbake

As theories go, this one is rather unlikely, given that most of the US defense infrastructure is hardened against EMP's, the retaliation would be somewhat south of instantaneous--even with Biden as CinC.



posted on Feb, 14 2023 @ 05:52 PM
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originally posted by: fringeofthefringe
With that reasoning why wouldn't China help the USA with our global affairs, since they don't want anything bad to happen to one of their largest trading partners?

We might be trading partners but China has 4 times the population of the USA. The day could come when they are totally self-sufficient and could run their economy just from their people. With all the outsourcing of manufacturing the west has done in the past 25 years, all the know-how is already in their hands. What raw materials they don't have they'll buy from allies and countries they've got under their thumb.


originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: fringeofthefringe
The faster we ween ourselves off of our China reliance the better. I’m pleasantly surprised with how we’re trending on that ambition, which isn’t to say we’re doing it as fast as I liked, but rather I’m surprised we’re doing it at all.

I agree with that and I'm even fine with paying a bit more for goods. The problem is, to make that happen will take legislation but the current administration (and congress) have too much personal benefits from China.



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