Universal Colonization: Our Purpose

a reply to: machineintelligence

I disagree. It is no fantasy. We have the technology and knowledge to start seed/generational ship. I agree that any type of "warp drive" is currently beyond our understanding of physics. But, if you'll think about it, we've been to the moon, stood and galivanted on the surface. If we can get there, we can build there. We've sent multiple probe to Mars including the rover. We are able to get a human payload to Mars in a reasonable timeframe. Once again, if we can get there, we can build there. We CAN start the cosmic journey if we, as a species, can find the will and wherewithal to do so.

a reply to: machineintelligence

I think it's more or less a product of organic life.

If there is a universal will it's exclusive to organic compounds that arise from constituent parts. Like seeded in stellar nursuries along with stars are the building blocks of life.

As it grows in complexity it's need to interact with its surrounding grow. A simple sponge like animal needs only a colony of simple organisms in an immediate area to survive. No nervous system needed. No real sensory awareness of it surroundings needed. Almost plant-like in knowing which way nutrients are.

As complexity grows sensory organs come into play. Now the organism needs synapses to relay the input data through a central processor and actively respond to stimuli. Consciousness becomes a necessary process of any complex organic creature to survive.

On up to animals evolved to the point of extrabiological contemplation. Animals with existential sensitivities. Not only do they interact and exploit a larger portion of their surroundings they can ask why it is they interact with a larger portion of their surroundings.

No real answers building up the complexity though. Need to strip it down to its base code.

The question in my mind ultimately becomes what is it about the cellular structure of organic life that commands mitosis?

What makes the stardust that lumps into genetic material seemingly have a command to replicate?

Can a replication command in cells arise spontaneously?

Chi? Swear I've heard it called Chi. I think if religious-minded folks wanted great confirmation of extra-universal design they'd endeavor to prove this "life-force" or as I've heard it called, "An organizing principle" for organic life exists.

That's an ultimate will to replicate and thrive.

Which honestly, validates everything you've said, albeit through a more (a)moral lens.

a reply to: Degradation33

The short answer to your question: God's love. Just as you expand your own life through love, God does the same with the universe. Which is God itself. But well, not the god of "Israel", that's for sure....

a reply to: ltrz2025

Can it be proved if there is a force to be called "God's love"? I tend away from anthropomorphic classifications for things that are purported to interact with the physical. "God's love" into an umbrella group of "divine coding".

If there a divine code for organic life that commands it to replicate and grow in complexity we should be able to eventually prove that alongside other fundamental forces. Do the cells have an innate ability to sense their own decomposition and replicate, or is their a quasi-divine dictate? And then what causes mutation into more complex forms. Seriously looking at evolution as a DIVINE PROCESS. Yes, I'm saying religious-minded people should look at organic life and evolution for confirmation of underlying divine architecture.

While I think its a mundane answer (open to being wrong) I feel for those seeking to find divinity in "biological will" the "rules" of organic structure are an excellent place to start.

I say if you want to validate a will of a god go for the priori and demonstrate an across the board need for initial parameters encoded into the observational bulk of the universe, and then prove there's no other explanation for why those exist.

From the increasingly complex volition of organic life to the critical temperatures for decoupling.

originally posted by: Moon68

originally posted by: beyondknowledge
Seed ships and multi generation ships won't work. By the time you get there the colony will already be established and you will be seen as invaders.

If it takes longer than 10 years for the trip, the next generation ships will pass you on the way. If it takes 100 years, the colony will have been well established at least 50 years before your arrival and you are likely to just be wiped out on arrival. Seen as an attacker.

After you launch, technology still advances.

If technology advanced to the point that the seed/generational ships were leap frogged then the there should be knowledge of the slower vessel being on it's way there. Therefore, the seed/generational ship should be expected by the colony who can then greet them and bring them up to speed of the new environment. No?

No. How are you to know the colony you are approaching is of the same faction of yours when you left? How do you know the colony is not so balanced between resources and population that a dozen more would not kill everyone? Would your chemistry be comparable with humans on a far off planet after a few generations? They would not want to risk your diseases that they have no immunity from.

It is faster than light or some jump technology that will keep the species in contact planet to planet. Seed and multi generational ships are only for life boat use on a planetary scale.

Without continuous physical contact, every group that leaves would be at war with all the others within a few generations.

a reply to: Degradation33

Ok, now the semi-short answer to your questions, because the short one didn't reach home.

God's love exists, it's a fact. You would know this if you knew anything about that thing we call metaphysics, which humans have been doing for thousands of years. The fact that you are ignorant of these laws, doesn't mean that they don't exist.

Love is anthropomorphic? When an animal protect its offspring is being a human? The erotic ecstasies that leads to procreation is just human? The survival instinct, love for self preservation, is only human? You are clearly not thinking straight. Then, as any balanced and harmonic system, the same rules which are attributes to the parts (us and the animals) must necessarily be also an attribute of the whole (God). This is simple physics. Therefore, God's love is the same than everybody else's.

When you think that if there was something, we should observe it in the nucleus of the cells, or in the "universe" (which you mistakenly call this way only what you can see, even if the deluded mainstream scientist themselves talk that 95% of the mass of the universe is "invisible", and you happily disregard it), that's when you are being anthropomorphic and naively materialistic, because you are relying on human eyes only. We are a part of the whole, not the whole, so it's silly to expect that you can see the entirety of the system from your specific corner.

Plus, if you knew anything about electromagnetism and zero point energy (again, simple physics), you would know that at the center of a magnet, what gives the magnet its "power", there is absolutely no-thing. Electromagnetism is what makes the universe work. In fact, if you chop a magnet in half, you end up having TWO MAGNETS (both with north and south pole), therefore a magnet is NOT A PHYSICAL THING, and you probably have a few of them right there on your fridge. But, because you never stopped to think, for you it's simply not there. You are blind to the invisible, typical westerner.

Love, the law of attraction, resides in electromagnetism as well. But you don't get that all the visible (physical) and the invisible (metaphysical) must, necessarily, respond to the same laws. Only a person who lacks of love fails to see that, that's why they end up obliterating themselves.

a reply to: Degradation33

I would go a step further and require those dissections to isolate a unique element which is subject to manipulation and visibly reacts. Not merely a footprint but actual biological or ectoplasmic substance. Opportunity is not causality, that's theoretical physics and any quasi divine specimen should be far from theoretical once it's in hand.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: Degradation33

I would go a step further and require those dissections to isolate a unique element which is subject to manipulation and visibly reacts. Not merely a footprint but actual biological or ectoplasmic substance. Opportunity is not causality, that's theoretical physics and any quasi divine specimen should be far from theoretical once it's in hand.

Lols. They built a 6 billion dollar hadron collider to try to find one single particle (a "unique element" as you materalisticly put it) to try to understand at least a bit of how the universe works (their model literally can't explain 95% of the way the universe functions, and this is counting bullcrap like spacetime and quantum)... result: They failed miserably. All they have is a very expensive washing machine. As said before, materialistic people end up obliterating themselves. Keep walking....

Seriously doing this? Okay...

To me (that's important to highlight) "God's love" is a projection of empathy as part of a duality construct. As this view of emotion is lensed through a religious ideology it's anthropomorphic enough and why I qualify it as such.

I do not see a bear protecting her cubs (a nature example of love) as evidence of God's love, or even an underlying motif of love. Quite the opposite actually. I see a survival mechanism rooted in an inverted premise of innate hostility and adversity. Without love a bear doesn't care about it's offspring and they die. Not so much for reptile. Love as a necessary tool of mitigating the indifference of nature where necessary.

Evidence of divinity, if anywhere, in its underlying need to replicate and thrive. Not just survival but a need to flourish. To invade and promote the species.

I feel that will to replicate, adapt, and thrive must be applicable to ALL organic life, even single celled life.

My question is, "did that principle arise because the universe is hostile and it was necessary, or is it evidence there is a legitimate underlying architecture behind organic volition"? And if so can it be proven?

Which subsequently, could be interpreted by some as divine will, a divine will to use an entire range of adaptive techniques and emotions to thrive, no matter the complexity. That's a complex example of this underlying "command to thrive" I felt the OP was hitting on.

My response was in reference to their premise, "The will of god is for man to expand and thrive", and I chose to give my subjective personal answer, which need not fit into any orthodox framework.

a reply to: Degradation33

There is no duality. Everything is God's love. What confuses some (like you) is that they become blind to God's love. But it still is everywhere.

There is no will in love, will is a process of the mind, not of the heart. You are trying to rationalize (in human terms) something that is absolute. That's why you sound so confused with all these words you wrote. You are like a fish in a fishbowl, trying to rationalize the water, which surrounds you in full. You can't, there is no reference to compare. Everything is water, everything is God's love.

This confusion you carry (because you have lost the sight of God's love) is most evident use the word "divine", which is a human construct, which is IN FACT what is based in duality. The failed assumption that there is divinity and wickedness, binary, so materialistic and westerner....

Anyway, you had the answer in front of your eyes, and you still couldn't see it. Better luck next time.

a reply to: beyondknowledge

I can 100% understand the possible situation you describe. However, that's one in an infinite possible scenarios. Mine is every bit as plausible as yours. Given that FTL and Jump tech is currently well beyond our understanding of physics currently those a pipe dream for the future. That leaves sitting on this rock stagnating as a species or boldly stepping out into the unknown and seeing what we can find.

a reply to: Moon68

Well certainly not a fantasy it is a possibility but as other posters have stated the chances are if you get an a ship and head out into deep space another generation of # is gonna be passing you by. Before you were get to your destination you can bet someone will catch up with you and it’ll be kind of like you wasted your trip unless of course they bring with them the technology they need to upgrade your ship so that everyone gets there quicker..

a reply to: ltrz2025

I agree the ̶h̶a̶r̶d̶-̶o̶n̶ hadron collider represents a colossal waste of resources.

a reply to: TzarChasm

originally posted by: machineintelligence
It is my hypothesis that the human species is a product of our Creator's design, fashioned as exploratory, terraforming beings intended to colonize the vast universe of the Creator's making. To resist this fundamental purpose is to invite suffering upon ourselves. Our genetic code bears within it an innate desire for exploration, a yearning that cannot be suppressed.

Possibly, hasn't always ended well though. Think of the Spanish in the Americas. Unfortunately our strange little tailless monkey species also has quite the penchant for dominating each other for resources and booty and wiping each other out in what is becoming our favourite past time (wars).

Being the end result of billions of years of earthly evolution our species is also quite well adapted to conditions on this planet...interstellar space, not so much. If this really was the aim of said creator all along, it seems fair to wonder if (s)he isn't quite the idiot.

It's more likely intelligent machines (AI) will evolve and manage to do this without us. Our species seems far more likely to become extinct, than to explore the cosmos. It is the fate of species eventually, to either die out or evolve into something else.

If we embrace our calling and adhere to the Creator's will to multiply and populate this universe with kindred beings, we may yet evolve into masters of this realm before our eventual return to the Creator. We are situated in a unique and secure position within the vast cosmic expanse, distinct from the higher planes that have already been colonized in previous epochs of expansion. Our brethren among the stars remain in our midst, offering us guidance and companionship despite the distance that separates us.

Have a good look at this planet and its inhabitants, then try telling me that extending this mess throughout the universe would be a good idea. Just go to a "mall" , sit, and observe for a while. If you can do this without abandoning all hope, you must quite the optimist. Just getting the huge lard arses our species is developing out of earth's gravity will be quite the challenge lol.

If our "brethren in the stars" actually exist and know that we exist, they're probably too busy laughing at us (surely they have received the transmissions we have spewed out for over a century) and wouldn't go anywhere near us with a cosmic barge pole.

Yet we must not disregard our common origin, treating our maternal home with the utmost reverence and respect. We cannot recklessly abandon our nurturing mother as we strive to advance beyond the confines of our current existence. Rather, we must cherish her and hold her dear, for we will require her continued care and support for many eons to come.

Reverence and respect ? lol I think you got your planets mixed up. Is there another earth and humanity somewhere you're thinking of?

a reply to: machineintelligence

Just some food for thought but Humans cannot exist anywhere else but Earth for any sort of serious length of time.

At least not without some serious genetic modifications.

If we are going to colonise the rest of the Universe we are going to have to change what we are to accommodate the different environments.

Nevermind devise a viable cost-effective means of getting there in the first place.