Aerial Event Megathread

a reply to: generik

Concerned Governors were briefed this evening by the Biden Administration on the recent UFO shoot-downs...

White House tells governors 'thousands' of objects in the skies aren't aliens, could be used car lot balloons.

The flying objects number in the 'hundreds, if not thousands,' and could be anything from 'used car lot balloons' to aircraft launched by commercial enterprises, a White House official said.

Source: www.foxnews.com...

a reply to: generik

You're right about it being a slower crash. That lesson was learned by the RCAF in 1998. A weather balloon went rogue over Canada, and the decision was made to shoot it down. Two F-18s fired 1,000 rounds at the balloon (one fired all the ammunition in the gun, the other fired most of its ammunition) over Newfoundland. The balloon finally crashed a week later. In Finland. After the RAF, and US both tried to deal with it as it crossed the UK, and into Europe.

a reply to: carewemust

Well, let me see if I can paint a picture to maybe clear some of this up..

I'm not a pilot, nor am I a radar expert, but in messing about in DCS and other sims, I've taken to researching radars, especially older ones because more info is available about them.

Imagine you're in a room the size of Texas, pitch black, with objects flying through the air, and you have a solid green flashlight. You've been tasked with tracking these objects and providing the necessary data to fire on them if needed. When you shine you're light, everything looks green, and the sky looks black. You can see some ground contours and reflections of some things in the sky, but they come and go. But you notice that when they're coming towards you, they look blue, and when they move away they look red.. You decide to "filter out" the green, and presto! Now you have a much clearer picture of what direction, and speed they're moving, and it's good enough for a Firing Solution! This is Doppler Radar, and it's smooth sailing from here..

Then one day the President calls: WHY AREN'T YOU TRACKING THOSE BALLOONS??? Uh-oh. Our green filter worked well for our previous tasking, but now we can't see slow-moving objects. Let's adjust it- MOTHER OF GOD! There are THOUSANDS of things we didn't see before, what ever will we do? People are asking us, demanding we tell them what they are - we're the radar operators after all! But we haven't seen Raw Radar Returns in a long time, that was something they only talked about in class.. Maybe an old timer like an F-14 RIO could shed a bit more light on what that might look like..

Disclaimer: I generally distrust the gov't, and personally believe in the possibility of a breakaway civ.. BUT - The gov't doesn't lie about everything, all the time. It's a big, lumbering machine in some ways, and sometimes they trip over their own feet too. Let's give it a couple weeks, give them time to recover some wreckage and see what they say.

a reply to: Mantiss2021

Astyanax: Could one of these objects really carry all that gear -- any gear -- at that altitude?

Mantiss2021 Really too little information available at this time to say with any certainty.

A fair reply, but mark my words. There won’t be any further information. Not unless there are future encounters.

No physical trace of these objects will be found. The authorities have already started to warn the public that they may not find any wreckage. As I have very rashly predicted already: they will not find anything. There’s nothing left to find.

Okay, Mantiss2021. Let’s take a look at your arguments.

First, we cannot assume that the vehicle required "internal bracing" of any kind. It is possible, given the object's "silver/grey" "metallic" appearance, that the envelope was, in fact self-supporting; perhaps made from a previously unknown lightweight, high-strength alloy.

Good thinking -- except that if the envelope was rigid, the material of which it was made would need to be more stress-and-strain resistant per unit volume than any material used to make bracing struts. That would add weight, not reduce it.

But really, we needn’t sweat these little details. The balloon concept is impossible on the face of it.

Here’s the calculation I was too lazy to do earlier. I give it to you in familiar units rather than scientifically preferred ones, but the quantities are the same. All you balloon champions had better read this; I am not an engineer, and I may have left something important out of my calculations. If so, I shall be as happy as anyone else if you correct me. I would much rather these phenomena had a human origin than that they came from anyone or anywhere else.

But debunk me with facts and figures, please, not space-cadet fantasies and alloys made out of unobtainium.

* * *

Volume of a Hummer (a nice big car): 755.44 cu. ft. I solved for a rectangular box with the linear dimensions of a Hummer, so the calculated volume is actually greater than that of a Hummer. As you will see below, I can afford to be generous.

The average density of air at 40,000 ft is 0.0189 lb/cu. ft. It varies a bit with temperature and wind speed. Source

Mass = density x volume.

Therefore, the average mass of a Hummer-sized volume of air at 40,000 ft = 0.0189 x 755.44 = about 14lb.

By Archimedes’ Principle, the mass of a floating body = the mass of fluid displaced by it. So that’s the mass of one of those bogeys, assuming it really was a balloon. Fourteen measly pounds. Scarcely enough to account for the balloon itself, let alone any kind of propulsion system, solar panels, payload, etc.

As I said, I may have missed some vital factor in my calculations. But I suspect I’m in the ballpark. I notice that ordinary weather balloon payloads max out at about 12lb, and this monster NASA high-altitude balloon, which lifted a ton (including its own weight) to 100,000', had a volume of 4.3 million cu ft at that altitude. Weather balloons have no internal structure and are designed to expand or contract depending on the outside air pressure. The atmosphere at 100,000' is about 20 times less dense than it is at 40,000', so the same balloon, at 40,000, would have been 20 times smaller in volume (Archimedes again). That’s still 215,000 cu ft, or the volume of a sphere of diameter slightly >74'. A bit bigger than a Hummer...

Okay, let’s leave out the weight of the gas; that would give us more payload capacity. Let’s imagine... a vacuum balloon!

Which makes me wonder... whether this object was in fact based on vacuum cell, rather than lifting cell, technology.

Let’s see.

Object mass (as calculated above) = 14lb
Object volume (still using our trusty Hummer) = 455 cu ft
But surface area of a cube of 455 cu ft volume = 355 sq ft Source
Therefore density of object skin material per sq ft is 14/355 = 0.04lb/sq ft

(For comparison, the density of goose feathers is about 1lb/sq ft) Source

What material could possibly weigh so little, yet remain rigid under a pressure of about 850 pounds (that would be the pressure on it from the outside air at sea level)? Unless the bogey makers use unobtainium, I’m afraid your vacuum balloon won’t fly.

As for a balloon fitted with solar panels and a propulsion system, that’s pure, unadulterated fantasy.

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: McGinty

t was nice of the Chinese to donate their balloon to the psyop at the opportune time

You need the red pill. This is a deep state narrative being pushed on MSM and you are taking it at face value..

I don’t need any of your pills, thanks buddy, but you go ahead!

Instead of lame euphemisms, why don’t you tell me why China are helping Biden distract everyone with Chinese balloons?

Or are you saying a Chinese balloon malfunctioning just when the US needed a distraction was a coincidence?

I’ll take lame euphemistic replies, or silence as ‘you don’t know’

originally posted by: wavelength

originally posted by: McGinty

It was nice of the Chinese to donate their balloon to the psyop at the opportune time

Ever considered China is the one behind the politically inflammatory gestures (rather than the US)?

The US isn't the only country with an information agenda.
To everyone else, ever consider that these are perfectly legitimate "spy"/etc balloons, but media and political sources on both sides are taking advantage of this marvelous opportunity?
That's how the media works. That's politics. Never let a "crisis" go to waste.

So China sent this balloon into a part of the sky where they hoped it’d be seen in order to start a diplomatic incident?

It’s a reach, since there was no guarantee it’d be seen, but of course it’s not impossible. But to what end? How could China predict Biden’s reaction and why would they want that reaction?

Cui bono? It seems to me that Biden benefits from having a convenient distraction from Nord Stream and Ohio. Why would China want to provide that distraction?

Crazy thought of the day: It’d be very interesting if aerosol apparatus and sizeable holding tanks were discovered on these balloons

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: putnam6

The wind map on the day it was found over the Great Lakes showed jet stream winds over 100 mph, with areas even higher over northern Montana, and the eastern part of the Dakotas, out over the Lakes. It was continuously that strong from the Dakotas to the Lakes.

Upper-level wind map February 10th it went approximately 1200 miles from dusk in Montana to Lake Huron to be shot down by Saturday 3:30 in the afternoon.

Not saying it isn't possible but, It had to be hauling ass

One Chinese balloon launch site in Hainan Island


Satellite Images Reveal Chinese Balloon Bases

Maybe should add Pico Balloons to the list.

Tracking data:
This site displays telemetry from Amateur Radio high-altitude balloon launches, using the SondeHub-Amateur database

Tracking data:
Welcome to the Weak Signal Propagation Reporter Network

Pico balloons are often used by amateur radio enthusiasts, scientists, and hobbyists for various purposes, such as conducting atmospheric research, monitoring weather patterns, or capturing aerial photographs.

Rocky Mountain Ham Radio New Mexico (RMHAM-NM) launched a “Pico-Balloon” from Albuquerque on Saturday, February 27 in conjunction with its 7th annual New Mexico TechFest.

ham-tv.com...

youtu.be...


Balloon Flight Forecasting: Compute forecast trajectories

Amateur Radio High Altitude Ballooning “The poor man’s space program”

twitter.com...

Sometimes a bunch of balloons are used, which can give them a visual profile that is difficult to interpret from the cockpit of a jet passing by.

Sometimes they are larger, cylindrical.

a reply to: Zaphod58

People often forget just how often regular old household devices can disarm and/or bypass technology The theft of the Antwerp Diamond exchange is a excellent example of smart and determined people getting around multiple systems.

Heck look at some of the ways the CIA used to drop film during the cold war---they would drop loaded rat corpses out of planes covered in hot sauce or something likw

originally posted by: McGinty
So China sent this balloon into a part of the sky where they hoped it’d be seen in order to start a diplomatic incident?

It’s a reach, since there was no guarantee it’d be seen, but of course it’s not impossible. But to what end? How could China predict Biden’s reaction and why would they want that reaction?

Cui bono? It seems to me that Biden benefits from having a convenient distraction from Nord Stream and Ohio. Why would China want to provide that distraction?

You could be right. It could be a US-driven psyop, but it might be a little bit of both. Let's take a look at the China situation & motives over a cup of tea or coffee, shall we?

China's pretty smart--they would have known that the US would attempt to gain intelligence from balloon as it passed over, eavesdropping on radio signals and taking images. China decided to go ahead, deciding they had more to gain than to lose by sending (floating) their equipment over the US.

You're right; China would not have been able to predict the exact reaction of the United States, but in operations like these, a number of possibilities would have been examined prior to launch. Meanwhile, the press is jammed with balloon this, balloon that, US is irritated with their leadership, and China is still blowing hot air. Does Biden benefit? Probably. The administration can find ways to turn the situation to their advantage.

But the question is, who benefited more from this stunt, China or Biden? Both sides are trying to convince the people of their victory. Political games. I won't get into the whole China/Biden collusion rabbit hole, but this is a question to, ahem, ponder as we examine the situation.

A side note, about a week before the balloon, the US and NL agreed upon further restrictions of China's access to necessary equipment for the manufacturing of advanced microchips used in China's fast-growing AI market. Industry insiders estimated these restrictions set them back about 10 or 20 years. This had China pretty upset. This may not have been the ultimate trigger of operation balloon clown, but it does give you a taste of the deteriorating relationship between China and the US on an industry level. US wins support from Japan and Netherlands to clip China’s chip industry

Hi folks, hi Zaphod.

I don't know if has been considered much, but this year is the 75th anniversary of The Roswell Incident.

Possible Ufo that we were told was a Balloon?

Now we have Balloons and some people think they're UFOs.

I'm waiting for more stories of strange sounds in the sky...

originally posted by: McGinty
It’s a reach, since there was no guarantee it’d be seen, but of course it’s not impossible.

With continued action comes inevitability. Time is then the only consideration.

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: generik

Concerned Governors were briefed this evening by the Biden Administration on the recent UFO shoot-downs...

White House tells governors 'thousands' of objects in the skies aren't aliens, could be used car lot balloons.

The flying objects number in the 'hundreds, if not thousands,' and could be anything from 'used car lot balloons' to aircraft launched by commercial enterprises, a White House official said.

Source: www.foxnews.com...

hundreds, if not thousands, of alien ships, got it!

a reply to: jedi_hamster

Seriously, Biden Administration officials said they could have shot down one of those inflatable gorillas that broke loose from a used car lot, and made it up into the jet stream.

They're still looking for pieces of him on the ground.

If the world survives, there will be some great movies made about this administration. Mostly comedy.

Also, The Battle Of Los Angeles on 24/25 of February 1942 was rumoured to have been started by the release of weather balloons.

When documenting the incident in 1949, the United States Coast Artillery Association identified a meteorological balloon sent aloft at 1:00 am as having "started all the shooting" and concluded that "once the firing started, imagination created all kinds of targets in the sky and everyone joined in".[5] In 1983, the U.S. Office of Air Force History attributed the event to a case of "war nerves" triggered by a lost weather balloon and exacerbated by stray flares and shell bursts from adjoining batteries

The Battle Of Los Angeles

Something like Project Bluebeam (real or not), isn't JUST about faking things we may see out or up there, but perhaps it's also about the prpoganda and common manipulation that facilitates and steers these events for a planned outcome.

Let's blame the French and those cursed Montgolfier Brothers who were obviosly working closely with the Chinese back in 1873.

US Psy Op? Uhm...I do not think they have the capacity nor the drive nor the effort to put into it. T busy worrying about gender nuetral titles and vaccinations.

These are foreign objects and since NORAD has changed the filters they are learning there are a LOT of things up there they did not know about. My uncle worked for Martin M back in the day and always told me that whatever you see is 20-30 years behind what they have. I do not think the US government actually knows who they are all from.

Mylar balloons from birthdays? Yeah, lets scramble those F-16's.

a reply to: nerbot

and they made a great movie about it....

originally posted by: matafuchs
US Psy Op? Uhm...I do not think they have the capacity nor the drive nor the effort to put into it.

It's a shame you stopped thinking. The psyops don't.

These are foreign objects and since NORAD has changed the filters they are learning there are a LOT of things up there they did not know about. My uncle worked for Martin M back in the day and always told me that whatever you see is 20-30 years behind what they have. I do not think the US government actually knows who they are all from.

Who's to say that NORAD isn't also compromised? The people who operate most of the systems are just following orders aren't they in a chain of command?

And who's to say what your Uncle was seeing was also 20-30 years behind what "they" actually have.

Just being skeptical.