ATS credited as the source for a 2007 leak of a UFO/UAP sighting in 2004 by Navy pilots

a reply to: KKLOCO

...Very interesting that original thread only received 40 flags.

Actually, the original thread by thefinaltheory was called Observations of an Actual UFO. It received no flags.

There are a number of obvious discrepancies there with what became the "official" narrative. I'll point a few of them out, so people don't have to click away to another thread.

It all started in 2005 when I was onboard and attached to a naval aircraft carrier...

The Nimitz 'event' occurred in November 2004 not 2005.

...It was about 2300 when the ship went into a "security alert" for those that dont know what that is, its when nobody can move on the ship AT ALL. If you do you will be targeted as a threat and be taken out quickly by the master at arms....

Not only is that time wrong, I'd question why a "security alert" involves the whole crew freezing.

Then the story develops into searching the ship network for video/files on the incident.

I found many videos and powerpoint breifs (navy standard) and written reports and even message traffic that was being passed through our radio division....

I burnt all these files to a disk and stashed it somewhere, unfortunently I dont have it anymore....

well here is what the video was:

It was taken directly from the cockpit camera of one of our ships fighter pilot jets F-18 I believe but cant be sure. It was in black and white and showed the altitude, the pilots "nickname" and the tempurature and all those little critical stats.

The UFO was floating extremely still in mid air, this was 30,000 ft above ground level. It looked literally and i mean LITERALLY just like a disk,

So the UFO was a disk originally?

The following day a new post, with much better spelling and grammar appeared by thefinaltheory.

Fighter Jet UFO Footage : The Real Deal

The earlier posting was ignored in 2017 and has been ever since.

But back in Feb 2007 people participating in the threads obviously remembered. So they were naturally suspicious of why the story had changed. Along with an improvement in grammar and spelling!

However, despite the likelihood that the material was classified, certain members of ATS pursued thefinaltheory to supply them with the videos and files.

If you were a Naval IT technician who had just procured some highly sensitive material, why would you sit on it for 2 years or more and then suddenly appear on ATS in early 2007 telling two different stories.

Why would you later trust some anonymous internet users with the video, files and your personal details. All while fearing repercussions from the authorities?

Why would ATS members think they could continue pursuit of these potentially classified materials without fearing involvement by the security services of the United States?

That said, they appear to have got much further than Naval intelligence in identifying the source of the 'leak'!

originally posted by: mirageman

Seems to me like the leak was all staged for some reason.

I'd say beware of Uncle Sam when he tells you what you want to hear.

Was there something happening in 2007 that could be related to this incident? Something major maybe. I doubt that they leaked the footage just to wait ten years with the confirmation. Maybe there was a reason back then and they ended up not using it until later.

a reply to: mirageman

It's quite the mystery. Oddly enough, it keeps coming back around. When I posted this, I was aware it had been discussed here previously, but I didn't know the whole story or the little details you have provided.

Honestly, I now find it interesting that the author of the video even mentioned ATS by name. He could have easily written his script without it and no one would have questioned it. Almost as if...well...never mind. I need to go find my tin foil hat.

a reply to: Klassified

This delineation is not exactly correct.

This TIC TAC video did NOT cause the pentagon to create AAWSAP or ATTIP.

The pentagon did that because someone was obsessed with Skinwalker ranch and used that as a reason to do that.

a reply to: Malacath

Can't say for certain. We don't know what we don't know.

But what we do know is that )n Feb 13th 2007 the supposed Nimitz incident log was posted on ATS : www.abovetopsecret.com... As far as I know only an unofficial report has ever surfaced with names redacted.

But there was already a report in Fightersweep from 2015.

This passage becomes relevant very soon.

....At the same time FASTEAGLE flight was wrapping up its scheduled training, the CO of Marine Hornet squadron VMFA-232, Lieutenant Colonel “Cheeks” Kurth, was completing a post-maintenance check flight not too far away. He was the first fast-mover contacted by Princeton. The communication was strange and intriguing. He was asked to investigate an unidentified airborne contact.....

As Cheeks approached the spot he was being vectored to, Princeton advised him to stay above 10K as the section of Super Hornets were approaching the target. His radar picked up the FASTEAGLE two-ship, but no other contacts. A moment later Princeton directed him to “skip it” and return to the ship. Since he was so close, he decided to fly over the action and sneak a peek.

Fightersweep -March 2015

Kurth or Cheeks is rarely mentioned because he's not one of the poster boys and girls in this particular incident. But he was there.

So what happened next?

We have a series of events where 'Cheeks' has no visible employment for over a year and then ends up working for Bigelow in Vegas long before the AWSAP contract had even been drafted for tender!!



Jul 2006 Douglas "Cheeks" Kurth leaves the US Navy and for over a year appears to have been unemployed.

Dec 2007 Kurth becomes Program Manager for BAASS [Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies]. The same year that Elizondo's predecessor James Lacatski is reported to have visited Skinwalker Ranch.

However, the 'Skinwalkers at the Pentagon' book dances around the date Kurth joined BAASS by reporting they had interviewed multiple times "by December 2008". Which appears to be a distortion of facts. As Kurth's Linkedin profile has him joining BAASS a whole year earlier than that.



Perhaps this is because it wasn't until Jan 2008 when BAASS was officially registered as a new company. Doug Kurth’s duties appear to include managing activity at Skinwalker Ranch.

But that gap between July 2006 and January 2008 is odd. The leak on ATS is slap bang in the middle of it.

It was not until Aug 2008 when US Military issue official tenders for the AAWSAP contract. BAASS was the sole bidder and awarded the contract.


Bigelow and his mob already had advanced knowledge of the Nimitz incident (whatever it really was), and almost certainly knew that funding was on its way from honorary member of that mob, Harry Reid.

Perhaps something like TTSA was planned 10 years before it happened? But it was abandoned back then?

Or maybe this isn't really about the video being leaked. But the files that came with it may still be out there?

a reply to: mirageman

I like that timeline. But what it all means, I don’t know other than coincidence or convenient exploitation.

They saw a military fellow with ufo experience, maybe referred to them by someone, and they hired him.

We know that the assertion in the video that TIC TAC caused AWWSAP is totally wrong. However, your timeline exposes a connection between Kurt and Bigelow before the AWWSAP.

I don’t see connections between Bigelow and the TICTAC event having anything to do with TTSA.

I do think later TTSA exploited TIC TAC.

In other words, TIC TAC happened and AWWSAP happened and TTSA happened. Though, certainly they have connections but I don’t see any pre-arranged relationship prior to TTSA or AWWSAP with TIC TAC.

No, no, no, don't be so confused y'all ahem, George is here to clear some things up. There's all kinds of issues and contradictions on this ride for sure. They often tell on themselves though. They just figure we're too slow to figure it out.

One point I find funny is the accreditation of the term "UAP." We know where that terminology originated.

The full-spectrum stage management remains the most telling aspect for me. And while it still leaves me with some questions what it doesn't leave me is wide-eyed with glee & wonder at all the "Disclosure" on the horizon.

One thing I do see is a whole new class of "believer." They don't show up here much but they're all over twitter & youtube. They are ready to believe, just tell them what.

Is some of that a result of the kind of stage management to which I refer? I think yes. Are such results part of the intention of the stage managers? It follows just fine.

And that's bare beginnings. We're currently at the pump being primed stage but it seems to be moving along well as far as social-engineering projects go.

a reply to: The GUT

I have to ask GUT. What do you, or anyone else who cares to jump in, see as the short, median, and long term goals of a con of like this. There has to be a return on investment some where.

originally posted by: Klassified
It's quite the mystery. Oddly enough, it keeps coming back around. When I posted this, I was aware it had been discussed here previously, but I didn't know the whole story or the little details you have provided.

Honestly, I now find it interesting that the author of the video even mentioned ATS by name. He could have easily written his script without it and no one would have questioned it. Almost as if...well...never mind. I need to go find my tin foil hat.

MM basically suggested what may well be the case here: ATS was a point of entry for the lore. As muddied as it was in its first carnation(s.) So as such ATS is now a part of that lore I guess.

And that's interesting as heck for a number of reasons.

I don't know what my final public word was on thefinaltheory parts 1&2 were but the truth is it left me somewhat baffled. I know there was some kind of counter-intelligence stuff going on that was not about UFOs. Who was who? Damned if I know. I know who I don't trust out of all that though and they ain't showed up here yet so we'll leave that there.

originally posted by: Klassified

I have to ask GUT. What do you, or anyone else who cares to jump in, see as the short, median, and long term goals of a con of like this. There has to be a return on investment some where.

I have a basic theory, Klassified. As a theoretical framework I think it fits what we're seeing quite well.

But first let me get something out of the way: I don't want anyone to confuse what I might believe about UFOs/Alien Life etc with what I believe is going on here. We might get a little truth about the phenomena out of this but what I'm seeing is a very-handy societal-control mechanism. Maybe the greatest ever.

You want folk to forget their crooked governments? Tease them with a little inter-dimensional hoo-doo. Aliens as technological gods.

You need 'em to cough up more of their great-grand-childred's grand-children's debt for "national defense?" Aliens as national security threat. The list goes on but you get the idea.

a reply to: The GUT

The short and long term goals are not so dissimilar then. It's a perpetual hustle.

a reply to: Klassified

An honest answer to the phenomena we'll never get because knowledge is power is the kindest interpretation I think.

So, what is this we're seeing then? If it's true whistleblowers then such folk would lose their security clearances for mucking around with sensitive national security issues like that wouldn't they?

If not, why, and what is this really about?

a reply to: mirageman

There are a number of obvious discrepancies there with what became the "official" narrative. I'll point a few of them out, so people don't have to click away to another thread.

And you did just THAT!

Thank you MM!

a reply to: Klassified

Hustle? I think so. In general I believe that there are things out there. It makes zero sense that the Earth is it when there are more galaxies than we can see stars with the naked eye. That said, the Earth is not a common stop on the galactic tourist circuit.

70ish years of the Space Race and we only pushed two probes out of the heliopause that were launched nearly 50 years ago. The miracle being that they still function at all. New Horizons has been out there 17 years now. We went on air with a special radio show for the Pluto flyby as data was coming in. Which was special for me because in August 1989 I was watching live feed from Neptune because my professor was part of the Voyager Project.

I am not sure exactly how to look at this. The Tic Tac story hit big in 2017 (and onward as it became more mainstream) and when I “first” saw it in 2017, I knew I had seen it before (without realizing the original story). That ten year gap could be many things. And one of those things could be to exploit an existing (but obscure) story into a headliner. Imagine if Betty and Barney Hill was obscure then mainstreamed into a proof of aliens. Which it kinda did except they were entered into Blue Book fairly quickly. But it wasn’t until the mid to late 1960’s that the public was interested. And still today, the Hill’s Story is the bedrock of ufology.

Could all of Tic Tac be 100% made up? Absolutely, including the ten year gap planted story. An Operation Mincemeat for the UFO crowd. Or some could be true and layers of refinement either came with time or were ”professionally helped” for a sell to the masses. Just keep in mind that Project Blue Book 1951-1969 was proceeded by Project Sign in 1947 and Project Grudge in 1948. And it is all wrapped in the NAZI Bell and Foo Fighter stories during WWII.

But to be introspective, we all play a part in some way even as just audience members. I knew guys that made parts that were used on the moon buggies. I held one of the rejected prototypes. The men that made them have passed away, but the parts they made will probably remain on the moon forever because all three moon buggies are up there still. Too much dead weight to bring back when they should still work if they hooked up new batteries. True or not, the Tic Tac Story is part of the lexicon now, like Betty and Barney Hill and Zeta Reticuli aliens…although the binary star system has no known planets and there is debate if it has a debris field disk that could form (or was) a planet.

a reply to: peaceinoutz

...In other words, TIC TAC happened and AWWSAP happened and TTSA happened. Though, certainly they have connections but I don’t see any pre-arranged relationship prior to TTSA or AWWSAP with TIC TAC.

There are connections and the timeline certainly points to Bigelow recruiting Kurth and forming BAASS with prior knowledge of the $22m AAWSAP contract long before it was advertised for tender.

According to research by Chris Lampright, the Bigelow Mob knew about the Nimitz incident very early on. Unfortunately, the original research paper is no longer available on the web.

...A 'credible source with direct inside knowledge" informed Lambright that Bigelow had been told by Harry Reid about the Nimitz encounter at an early stage following the incident. The same source then advised that Bigelow shared this information with "Hal Puthoff and one or two others" in 2005. However, it wasn't until former Lt. Col. Douglas Kurth went to work for BAASS in 2007, that "the Reid/Bigelow operation suddenly came to life." Hal Puthoff, speaking at the 2018 SSE/IRVA conference in Las Vegas, confirmed that the AATIP was created in June 2007....

Source

Now if Mr. Bigs and crew knew of the Nimtiz incident they'd also know that Kurth was one of the pilots involved.

BAASS was also registered as a company in January 2008. Kurth was already appointed in December 2007. AAWSAP was not advertised for tender until August 2008.

But Kurth also had a huge gap of 18 months with no employment listed on his linkedin profile between July 2006 and Dec 2007. What was he up to?

Don't forget that in 2006 some of Bigelow's crew were caught neck deep in the SERPO hoax too.

In Feb 2007 the FLIR video appeared and was leaked via ATS. Is there some connection back to Bigelow and his boys there? Or was it really just an IT technician who suddenly remembered he'd got a UFO video he burned to CD in 2004?

Is all this and the subsequent use of the same video to launch TTSA ten years later all just a string of coincidences?

a reply to: Ahabstar

.... Imagine if Betty and Barney Hill was obscure then mainstreamed into a proof of aliens. Which it kinda did except they were entered into Blue Book fairly quickly. But it wasn’t until the mid to late 1960’s that the public was interested. And still today, the Hill’s Story is the bedrock of ufology....

And the Holy Grail of American Ufology, Roswell, was virtually ignored after July 1947 until 1978 when Jesse Marcel got encouraged to talk.

a reply to: Klassified

... have to ask GUT. What do you, or anyone else who cares to jump in, see as the short, median, and long term goals of a con of like this. There has to be a return on investment some where.

Second guessing what spook games are being played is difficult, if nigh on impossible. Although it appears that the UFO topic is often used as a metaphor for other activities by alphabet agencies. At a simple level is disseminating 'UFO' documents with certain markings, spelling or grammatical errors in them to see how information flows between individuals, some who may also be suspected of espionage or other nefarious activities.

Even knowing what the spooks are up to doesn't necessarily mean you understand the real objective(s). There are more details in the OP of this thread.. But as two quick examples:

- Studio Six was a fake film company set up by the CIA in 1979. But even if you'd uncovered that at the time, how would have any real idea that the objective was to smuggle US diplomats in hiding in Iran out of the country?

- In the early 2000s a free vaccination project was set up in Pakistan by the CIA. But with that knowledge alone, could you have linked it to the real objective? Which was to obtain DNA samples from the local populace to confirm the presence of Osama bin Laden in the area.

This whole TTSA - disclosure cycle appears to be running out of steam. But it's possible to look at various people involved along the way and see how some have been complicit in the operation.



Others appear to be ignorant to how they've been manipulated.

But what was it all really about?

a reply to: The GUT
a reply to: Ahabstar
a reply to: mirageman
and those who added to this discussion...

Thank you for turning this thread into a learning experience. When I watched the video, knowing the "tic tac incident" had been previously discussed on ATS, I knew there was a lot more to this story than the well crafted script Mr. Harris presented, but the level of deceit, manipulation, and intentional convolution in this story is fascinating.

You would think after 12+ years on ATS nothing much would surprise anyone here, and nothing much does, but as my father in law used to say, "It just gets curiouser and curiouser." I could add speculation to each of your posts and points and we would be no closer to the truth.

We all know that history is full of the initiated and uninitiated. Those in the know, those who are "useful", and those who are kept ignorant. All to further enhance the power and control of a few. It would seem nothing has changed except the taking of the art and science of manipulation to whole new levels in the 21st century.

If we have learned little else, we should know by now to question everything.

a reply to: mirageman

Another great example. Which is harder for me to remember to acknowledge because having grown up near Wright-Pat we all “knew” the stories of Hanger 18 holding the UFO and alien bodies. Keep in mind, Blue Book was ran out of Wright-Pat. Then add in that Tall Tales and Urban Legends was a major topic of conversation. So much you had the Liar’s Bench and Liar’s Table and Liar’s Club used to describe where men got together to socialize.

My grandfather used to this covered bridge still in use when I was a child. He would stop on the bridge to honk the horn and bark the tires on the wood planks to “scare off the Bigfoots in the Bigfoot Nest.” And heard tales passed around the Liar’s Table at Harvey’s Restaurant of Bigfoot. Being a pretty smart kid, I figured they were fueled by the Bigfoot episodes of The Six Million Dollar Man. About 10-12 years ago I was looking at an online database of Bigfoot sightings and sure enough, that area of around that bridge around that time in the 1970’s. Current events distilled to not be scary to a child.

And that might be the goal of the long road of delayed disclosure. To make the subject a form of acceptable pop culture with occasional deeper events to keep it in the list of topics of conversation. Roswell: Weather Balloon or three person shuttle craft is an easier conversation than acknowledging that a mothership the size of Rhode Island was parked in orbit for five years monitoring transmissions, exploring resources, conducting experiments on livestock and other things. That their secret was kept in exchange of minor technology boosts.

Look at the Chinese Spy Balloon and the stir that caused just here on ATS (and I would guess Facebook and Twitter as well since I don’t use them). Imagine if that was a Roswell sized craft just openly poking around taking in the sights. The idea that such a small craft could do deep interstellar travel without a larger support craft might not come up. Although it should. Such explorers should have trouble being tightly confined for long periods. Even our trips to the moon had a command module in orbit, a lander and two pedestrians and later the LRV’s to explore more area. The hardest part about a trip to Mars is that six months to a year there and then six months to a year back. That is a lot of air, food, water and fuel. Sure the aliens might have that round trip in 20 minutes, but even a bus would be small for a two year trip for us.