Brave New World 23

Isn't it lovely to sometimes get a glimpse into the fears and worries of people?

Finally, the CEO of a brokerage house explained that he had nearly completed building his own underground bunker system, and asked: “How do I maintain authority over my security force after the event?” The event. That was their euphemism for the environmental collapse, social unrest, nuclear explosion, solar storm, unstoppable virus, or malicious computer hack that takes everything down.

This single question occupied us for the rest of the hour. They knew armed guards would be required to protect their compounds from raiders as well as angry mobs. One had already secured a dozen Navy Seals to make their way to his compound if he gave them the right cue. But how would he pay the guards once even his crypto was worthless? What would stop the guards from eventually choosing their own leader?

The billionaires considered using special combination locks on the food supply that only they knew. Or making guards wear disciplinary collars of some kind in return for their survival. Or maybe building robots to serve as guards and workers – if that technology could be developed “in time”.

Over at the Guardian Beautiful article

s a humanist who writes about the impact of digital technology on our lives, I am often mistaken for a futurist. The people most interested in hiring me for my opinions about technology are usually less concerned with building tools that help people live better lives in the present than they are in identifying the Next Big Thing through which to dominate them in the future. I don’t usually respond to their inquiries. Why help these guys ruin what’s left of the internet, much less civilisation?

Still, sometimes a combination of morbid curiosity and cold hard cash is enough to get me on a stage in front of the tech elite, where I try to talk some sense into them about how their businesses are affecting our lives out here in the real world. That’s how I found myself accepting an invitation to address a group mysteriously described as “ultra-wealthy stakeholders”, out in the middle of the desert.

I'm not saying these people are the only ones problematic. But it's an interesting observation: who keeps you safe from those who keep you safe goes from top to bottom.
Shock collars is an interesting idea. Or control the food.
Funny how power only works through subjugation.
And how it's just a given soon money will be worthless. No further comment on that.

There is no escape from stupidity in life. One is born, lives and then doesn't see the smile at the casket.

a reply to: musicismagic

Are you saying I'm stupid?
Why is it green?

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: musicismagic

Are you saying I'm stupid?
Why is it green?

Why do you say that?

green = money

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.


a reply to: musicismagic

originally posted by: Peeple
I'm not sure I understand what you mean.


a reply to: musicismagic

In America, when I was a kid, we'd call the dollar bills "green backs ". Not sure if it is used today though.

a reply to: musicismagic

I understood that after the money = green, thank you.
But what does this

There is no escape from stupidity in life. One is born, lives and then doesn't see the smile at the casket.

mean?

a reply to: Peeple

Loosely, I think he is referring to the fact that no amount of money and technology can truly protect people from their fate -- it is a fools errand.

Unless you are going to have a small city, these bunkers are not really effective. Sure, you have security guards, but what if there's a problem with the water, air filtration or power ?
Anyone know how to fix the generator ?
Do you have a Dr and medicines ?

There's a long list of things to need to survive.

a reply to: Peeple
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Who guards the guards?

a reply to: Peeple

If the SHTF for real bunkers, special combination locks and shock collars are not going to protect these people. Not when the elite global multi billionaire "ruling class" is going to ultimately be the cause of the collapse.

a reply to: DAVID64

Depends for how long you're planning and I'm kind of sure they have a network ready to go after a cool down.


To trap and enslave people who come to shelters for help, in the beginning they'd probably be proud to help 'rebuild civilisation'...
The Courier out in the Wasteland having adventures with cool music....

Sorry my mind is polluted. My guess is the first sentence. My imagination carries me away.

a reply to: Peeple

I think they're realizing where the rubber meets the road.

When and if SHTF, there will be no place for cowards.

Their own security and everyone else will see to that.

Hopefully they have some DVD's I haven't watched yet....

a reply to: DAVID64

so true. in a lot of ways a bunker, especially a personal bunker, say for one family, is a fools errand.

the very first issue, and question that needs to be answered, is just how long will you be down there. because of course you need at least enough supplies to cover your stay. especially when it comes not just food and water, but just as important enough fuel for things like heating, cooking, lighting, and even possibly air, all in enough quantity to last the entire time you are down there.

as well there is the question of why you are down there in your bunker. which has a great bearing on how long you will need to stay down. not to mention the reason also impacts what supplies you need. which really means you should be prepared for anything. like for example in a case of nuclear war/accident, or diseases, can you bring new, fresh air in from outside? if you have access to natural water supplies such as an aquafier or underground river, will that water supply stay safe, and not become contaminated? otherwise, depending on your length of stay, you may need a hell of a lot of water (about 4L, 1 gallon of water per day, per person MINIMUM, like i am sure you might want to do things like bath every once in awhile, which is a lot of water each time extra). and of course you need things like medications and medical equipment and supplies. in fact as cruel and hard as it would be to do, any stay over a couple months (with appropriate stocks of needed meds and such), or possibly "the fall of civilization", which would mean no more manufacturing things like medications, and you should probably be wise to leave those with fairly serious medical conditions, such as type one diabetes (? i always get the two confused, the one where you NEED insulin), left out. because in the end they are screwed, and will die anyway.

and you are completely right about needing a "city" (i would say "town" myself), to even bother building and using a bunker past a couple or so months, especially in a fall of civilization issue. because lets face it you need many people to procreate, especially to avoid the effects of inbreeding, after you are free to go back out. but also to insure you have people with needed skills, to do everything you might need to do. (be sure to include farmers,since if there is no one, or almost no one else left alive, you will need to start farming for yourselves. not to forget the thing about protection in numbers, not to mention shared workloads.

in fact i don't think i have ever seen a bunker plan that is really adequate for anything other than a very few weeks, with intact civilization at the end. because what you really need is not a "bunker" as we tend to think of them, but instead more like underground warehouse/farm towns (including livestock). since for one year of vegetables, for one person, takes about 1/2 acre (vegetarians would need at least 2 acres of land each), plus of course land for the livestock. with about 0.1 acres of land for two pigs,enough for 1 person, per year. where one cow will feed a person for a year, and needs 1.8 acres of grazing land each. where chickens you would need around 145 5lb chickens per person, per year (at least three chickens to produce enough eggs for one person a year), which needs about 0.3 acres needed. for milk a goat would produce far more than enough for one person per year (more like 19 people for one goat's milk, and only requires about 50 sq meters for grazing. a cow requires about 1.8 acres of grazing land, and could provide enough milk for close to 100 people for a year (and don't forget to have people who know how to make things like butter and cheeses). so in the end you would likely need about 4 or 5 acres of farmland in your bunker,per person. also you should also grow a fair amount of hemp/marijuana, both to do things like make rope and clothing out of, as well as for medication, and possibly for recreational use (reminding me if you want alcohol, you better have people who know how to do it, and does anyone even know how to make yeast, which is needed for at least some alcohols and of course things like bread?). and having already mature fruit trees, coffee bushes or trees would be good to have ready and growing in place for if needed, since they take so long to grow and produce. banana plants on the other hand only take a year to grow, before harvesting them, by cutting the plant down, so you should probably have some also going before needed. and don't forget bees. needed for pollinating crops, not to mention honey and wax, both of which are extremely useful.

now one good thing about all that bunker farmland, would be that you also would likely have a good, safe air supply. water on the other hand would require a minimum of 1,460 liters, or 365 gallons of water per year per person, just to stay alive. and you would also need a hell of a lot of water, no clue how much, both to water the livestock, and crops, a well as any other needed use. you would probably need a city sized reservoir at the least. and of course by farming, you would have things like crop seed, and of course breeding animals, once you go back up (lets be honest, depending on why you went down in the first place, you might not want to leave for many years, if ever). and of course while money might be no good, things like crops, seed, and anything you can produce would all be great for trade, if things are in bad shape once you leave the bunker.

and then we get to things like fuel, power, lighting, heating and cooking. just what are you going to use for those things? for light you could use electricity (and better have tens of thousands of backup light-bulbs), as well as heating, and cooking, but how will you produce it? generators would be good, but they require fuel to run, and looking at 5 acres of farmland per person, that is a hell of a lot of needed light alone (and i suspect farming needs electric lights, since i don't think torches or other fire light would work). so like with water you would need huge amounts, like those huge depot fuel tanks. you could use wood, but you would need all of that wood on hand, and yet again a ton of room for it to be stored (although with farming, you might be able to use some of the non food portion of plants to burn). and with either you would need to get rid of the exhaust/smoke, which can easily give away the location of your bunker. of course there is always nuke power, but good luck building a safe reactor, and getting the fissionables to run it. i suspect if you are rich and can afford it, and have the right political contacts for the time, you might be able to. after all small nuke reactors is actually old technology. you might even get lucky and find one abandoned and forgotten, in some factory somewhere, where they were once used, such as those used by Kodak camera/film company.

safe to say, i don't think in the end 10 acres of land. per person, would be that far off in needed bunker space. so for 50 people, a decent number, you would need about 500 acres of underground bunker space, to survive over a few weeks or so, especially if you need to stay for more than a year. i don't even want to think of how much setting up such a facility would cost, at least tens of millions, if not into the billions of dollars (get a loan, even if you have the cash, that way if the worst happens fairly quickly, you might never have to pay for it lol)

a reply to: Peeple

For they sow the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind. ~Hosea 8:7

Absolute OPSEC.

You build a bunker.

You supply it.

You tell no one about it, and camoflauge the hell out of it to ensure none but you knows where it is.

You secure it.

Narrow halls with choke points where you can defend with relatively few people- The 300 defense so to speak.

Not a brave new world.

It's the same old world.

Where stupid people do stupid things and thatS EXACTLY why you'd build a bunker for yourself.

Pandemics and Ballons make it painfully clear.

YOU HAVE TO look out for yourself and yours.

That's one set of problems I'll never have to entertain, at least not under ground. What ever happened to the mantra "we're all in this together"?

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck
That's one set of problems I'll never have to entertain, at least not under ground. What ever happened to the mantra "we're all in this together"?

Exactly this: "we're all in this together."

Truer words are seldom spoken.

It is the very mindset of exploitation and self-importance over others that signal the real fool's errand. Until exploiters realize at a fundamental level that, indeed, we very much are inexplicably all in it together over that of greed and self-indulgence, no one 'wins,' regardless of their perception or justification. One cannot and will not flourish--never mind survive--until what has true value is realized; until that time, there is no bunker with walls thick or deep enough.

When the attitude transforms from how do I serve myself only to slightly a wider vista, the mindset that one might need to "collar" others to ensure obedience and their own safety and well-being will vanish into thin air like so much valueless fiat currency.

a reply to: MykeNukem

I am noticing how their scenarios are dependent on others. If you have to rely on everyone else, they can eliminate you as worthless.