a reply to:
DAVID64
so true. in a lot of ways a bunker, especially a personal bunker, say for one family, is a fools errand.
the very first issue, and question that needs to be answered, is just how long will you be down there. because of course you need at least enough
supplies to cover your stay. especially when it comes not just food and water, but just as important enough fuel for things like heating, cooking,
lighting, and even possibly air, all in enough quantity to last the entire time you are down there.
as well there is the question of why you are down there in your bunker. which has a great bearing on how long you will need to stay down. not to
mention the reason also impacts what supplies you need. which really means you should be prepared for anything. like for example in a case of nuclear
war/accident, or diseases, can you bring new, fresh air in from outside? if you have access to natural water supplies such as an aquafier or
underground river, will that water supply stay safe, and not become contaminated? otherwise, depending on your length of stay, you may need a hell of
a lot of water (about 4L, 1 gallon of water per day, per person MINIMUM, like i am sure you might want to do things like bath every once in awhile,
which is a lot of water each time extra). and of course you need things like medications and medical equipment and supplies. in fact as cruel and hard
as it would be to do, any stay over a couple months (with appropriate stocks of needed meds and such), or possibly "the fall of civilization", which
would mean no more manufacturing things like medications, and you should probably be wise to leave those with fairly serious medical conditions, such
as type one diabetes (? i always get the two confused, the one where you NEED insulin), left out. because in the end they are screwed, and will die
anyway.
and you are completely right about needing a "city" (i would say "town" myself), to even bother building and using a bunker past a couple or so
months, especially in a fall of civilization issue. because lets face it you need many people to procreate, especially to avoid the effects of
inbreeding, after you are free to go back out. but also to insure you have people with needed skills, to do everything you might need to do. (be sure
to include farmers,since if there is no one, or almost no one else left alive, you will need to start farming for yourselves. not to forget the thing
about protection in numbers, not to mention shared workloads.
in fact i don't think i have ever seen a bunker plan that is really adequate for anything other than a very few weeks, with intact civilization at the
end. because what you really need is not a "bunker" as we tend to think of them, but instead more like underground warehouse/farm towns (including
livestock). since for one year of vegetables, for one person, takes about 1/2 acre (vegetarians would need at least 2 acres of land each), plus of
course land for the livestock. with about 0.1 acres of land for two pigs,enough for 1 person, per year. where one cow will feed a person for a year,
and needs 1.8 acres of grazing land each. where chickens you would need around 145 5lb chickens per person, per year (at least three chickens to
produce enough eggs for one person a year), which needs about 0.3 acres needed. for milk a goat would produce far more than enough for one person per
year (more like 19 people for one goat's milk, and only requires about 50 sq meters for grazing. a cow requires about 1.8 acres of grazing land, and
could provide enough milk for close to 100 people for a year (and don't forget to have people who know how to make things like butter and cheeses). so
in the end you would likely need about 4 or 5 acres of farmland in your bunker,per person. also you should also grow a fair amount of hemp/marijuana,
both to do things like make rope and clothing out of, as well as for medication, and possibly for recreational use (reminding me if you want alcohol,
you better have people who know how to do it, and does anyone even know how to make yeast, which is needed for at least some alcohols and of course
things like bread?). and having already mature fruit trees, coffee bushes or trees would be good to have ready and growing in place for if needed,
since they take so long to grow and produce. banana plants on the other hand only take a year to grow, before harvesting them, by cutting the plant
down, so you should probably have some also going before needed. and don't forget bees. needed for pollinating crops, not to mention honey and wax,
both of which are extremely useful.
now one good thing about all that bunker farmland, would be that you also would likely have a good, safe air supply. water on the other hand would
require a minimum of 1,460 liters, or 365 gallons of water per year per person, just to stay alive. and you would also need a hell of a lot of water,
no clue how much, both to water the livestock, and crops, a well as any other needed use. you would probably need a city sized reservoir at the least.
and of course by farming, you would have things like crop seed, and of course breeding animals, once you go back up (lets be honest, depending on why
you went down in the first place, you might not want to leave for many years, if ever). and of course while money might be no good, things like crops,
seed, and anything you can produce would all be great for trade, if things are in bad shape once you leave the bunker.
and then we get to things like fuel, power, lighting, heating and cooking. just what are you going to use for those things? for light you could use
electricity (and better have tens of thousands of backup light-bulbs), as well as heating, and cooking, but how will you produce it? generators would
be good, but they require fuel to run, and looking at 5 acres of farmland per person, that is a hell of a lot of needed light alone (and i suspect
farming needs electric lights, since i don't think torches or other fire light would work). so like with water you would need huge amounts, like those
huge depot fuel tanks. you could use wood, but you would need all of that wood on hand, and yet again a ton of room for it to be stored (although with
farming, you might be able to use some of the non food portion of plants to burn). and with either you would need to get rid of the exhaust/smoke,
which can easily give away the location of your bunker. of course there is always nuke power, but good luck building a safe reactor, and getting the
fissionables to run it. i suspect if you are rich and can afford it, and have the right political contacts for the time, you might be able to. after
all small nuke reactors is actually old technology. you might even get lucky and find one abandoned and forgotten, in some factory somewhere, where
they were once used, such as those used by Kodak camera/film company.
safe to say, i don't think in the end 10 acres of land. per person, would be that far off in needed bunker space. so for 50 people, a decent number,
you would need about 500 acres of underground bunker space, to survive over a few weeks or so, especially if you need to stay for more than a year. i
don't even want to think of how much setting up such a facility would cost, at least tens of millions, if not into the billions of dollars (get a
loan, even if you have the cash, that way if the worst happens fairly quickly, you might never have to pay for it lol)