It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Biden says 'no' to sending F-16s to Ukraine as allies mull request

page: 1
8
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 31 2023 @ 06:22 AM
link   
A prudent step no doubt but

Of course, this was stated with the caveat the Pentagon is not taking it off the table for future use. NATO the west and others will be arming Ukraine for the foreseeable future

www.upi.com...



Jan. 31 (UPI) -- The United States will not send F-16 fighter jets to Ukraine, President Joe Biden said, as some Western allies mull heeding the war-torn Eastern European nation's request for the advanced weaponry as it seeks to recapture control of its skies from Russia.

Ukrainian officials have launched a campaign to secure the U.S. aircraft from ally nations, and have intensified their push following Kyiv's recent success in procuring commitments for tanks, including M1 Abrams from the United States and Leopard 2s from Germany.

Kyiv is reportedly seeking a fleet of the Lockheed Martin-manufactured single-engine aircraft to control its airspace and protect civilian infrastructure from Russia strikes.

Asked Monday afternoon after arriving at the White House from Baltimore, Md., if the United States would provide Kyiv with the jets, Biden responded by saying: "No."

Biden's one-word answer comes after Pentagon officials last week said arming Ukraine with the jets was not off the table and as Ukrainian officials suggested ally nations were inching toward the possibility of supplying them with the planes.

Over the course of the nearly one-year war, Ukrainian officials have requested increasingly advanced weaponry from partner nations, with the United States -- its largest backer with donations of more than $27 billion in military assistance -- being among those that have incrementally answered its calls.

On Thursday, Pentagon deputy press secretary Sabrina Singh told reporters during a press conference that the F-16s are not "off the table" but that she wouldn't state what may or may not be included in future assistance packages.

edit on 31-1-2023 by putnam6 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2023 @ 06:33 AM
link   
a reply to: putnam6

I'm actually backing Biden on this. I must be feeling off.

I read yesterday that there was a possibility of F-16's being sent from Poland. So even if Biden made the right decision to not send U.S. F-16's, there's still a possibility from another country.

So far it was reported yesterday that 60 Bradley Tanks were being shipped. Whether or not that's accurate is up for debate.



posted on Jan, 31 2023 @ 06:39 AM
link   
All of that dropped while it seems Russia could be fading hopefully. It could hinge on how hawkish Valery Gerasimov is honestly

www.newsweek.com...



Putin No Longer Leading Ukraine Effort, Girkin Says: 'A Complete Failure'

The Russian military blogger Igor Girkin has issued his latest broadside against how Russian President Vladimir Putin is conducting his invasion of Ukraine.

Also known as Igor Strelkov, Girkin is a former Russian intelligence officer who played a major role in Russia's annexation of Crimea in 2014 and the conflict in Ukraine's eastern Donbas region.

He has given perceptive but unflattering assessments of Russia's military failures in Ukraine and his views on the military shortcomings of Putin and his commanders.

In a video posted on his Telegram social media channel on Monday, Girkin told an audience in St. Petersburg how he had predicted in May 2022 that Russia had already "failed" in what it calls a "special military operation" because there was no mobilization underway.

had appointed Chief of the Russian General Staff Valery Gerasimov, to take charge of the Kremlin's campaign in Ukraine.



and this

www.newsweek.com...


Wagner Group Leadership in Disarray Amid 'Significant' War Losses: ISW

The leader of the Wagner Group was locked in a spat with a nationalist rival as the Russian mercenary organization continued to suffer heavy losses in Ukraine, according to the Institute for the Study of War (ISW).

An ISW report published on Thursday states that Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin had recently been in an "altercation" with former Russian army commander Igor Girkin, highlighting "competition among Russian nationalist groups for political influence in Russia."

Girkin accused Prigozhin of "deliberately misconstruing" criticism of his political ambitions as an attack on the Wagner Group forces fighting in Ukraine. Girkin also accused Prigozhin of diverting personnel to Africa and Syria "instead of deploying his mercenaries to win the war in Ukraine."

The Wagner Group leader reportedly shot back by denying that he has any political ambitions and claiming that "his team attempted to bribe Girkin in an effort to silence his criticism of Wagner forces."



posted on Jan, 31 2023 @ 06:41 AM
link   

originally posted by: Bigburgh
a reply to: putnam6

I'm actually backing Biden on this. I must be feeling off.

I read yesterday that there was a possibility of F-16's being sent from Poland. So even if Biden made the right decision to not send U.S. F-16's, there's still a possibility from another country.

So far it was reported yesterday that 60 Bradley Tanks were being shipped. Whether or not that's accurate is up for debate.




So am I, no matter how symbolic it may be if Ukraine winds up getting them from Poland or elsewhere, which may be the workaround.
edit on 31-1-2023 by putnam6 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2023 @ 06:45 AM
link   


F-16s are not "off the table"


What about an atomic cannon



posted on Jan, 31 2023 @ 06:45 AM
link   
The odds of F-16s ever coming from the US were always low to non existent. The only places they could come from were active US units, meaning we weaken our own forces, AMARG, which would be 9-12 months minimum, or new build, which has a year(s) long waiting list, unless you want to piss off a customer that already has then ordered.



posted on Jan, 31 2023 @ 07:13 AM
link   

originally posted by: Zaphod58
The odds of F-16s ever coming from the US were always low to non existent. The only places they could come from were active US units, meaning we weaken our own forces, AMARG, which would be 9-12 months minimum, or new build, which has a year(s) long waiting list, unless you want to piss off a customer that already has then ordered.




I don't know but would have thought they told Zelenskyy a long time ago to quit barking up that tree, though no doubt there is some value in letting the option blow in the too.



posted on Jan, 31 2023 @ 07:30 AM
link   
a reply to: putnam6

Several allied nations are removing the F-16 from their inventory in favor of the F-35. So they may transfer them to Ukraine forces. They just won’t come from the US inventory.



posted on Jan, 31 2023 @ 07:37 AM
link   
a reply to: putnam6

Ukraine now says they need 200 F/16s.

Lolz..

What a show..
edit on 31-1-2023 by vNex92 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 31 2023 @ 07:46 AM
link   
a reply to: putnam6

They override Biden frequently, like in October when he declared the pandemic emergency over.



posted on Jan, 31 2023 @ 07:50 AM
link   
a reply to: putnam6

It wasn't very long ago that he said no tanks. Now we're sending tanks.

So I won't be surprised if we're sending fighter jets by the end of the summer.



posted on Jan, 31 2023 @ 08:03 AM
link   
a reply to: putnam6

I'm all for giving Ukraine the tools they need to get the job done and repel Russian forces back to whence they came.

But do Ukraine have pilots familiar with the F-16 or are able to train them in a timely enough manner to make a difference?



posted on Jan, 31 2023 @ 08:18 AM
link   
a reply to: andy06shake

To use them? Yes. To get the best out of them? No.



posted on Jan, 31 2023 @ 08:21 AM
link   
a reply to: watchitburn

Congress won’t even let the Air Force retire aircraft that are obviously vulnerable to anything but a completely permissive environment (unless it’s something we’re desperately short of). Removing F-16s would be the same thing. They’re not going to override him. They’ll get F-16s from other countries that are retiring them.

They may allow some from AMARG if things appear to be stable enough to give them the time they need to regenerate them, but for now they won’t come from us.



posted on Jan, 31 2023 @ 08:23 AM
link   
a reply to: watchitburn

Not m1 abrams it was a bait and switch for Germany to send their tanks.
US/NATO sending their tanks still wont change the outcome.

But it shows that Ukraine isnt winning as some claimed in the media.



posted on Jan, 31 2023 @ 08:32 AM
link   
a reply to: vNex92

Really? Because you don’t send equipment that has a learning curve when you’re losing. You send it when things are stabilized and there’s time to learn how to use it. When you’re losing you send everything you can get that’s as close as possible to what the people fighting are used to. Ukraine might not be winning, but they aren’t as desperate as they were.



posted on Jan, 31 2023 @ 08:35 AM
link   
Would F-16s really be that much air power to add? They have 70ish MiG-29s and Su-27s currently in inventory (unsure how many are combat capable). Would they have the pilots trained and ready for F-16s or another 4th gen fighter? What about the GSE, spares, etc...?

What's the likelihood of the powers that be saying something along the lines of, "Well, we're not doing the F-16s, so how about some A-10s instead?" If Poland, or another nation, commits to sending F-16s or other comparable 4th gen fighter they would have the top cover to keep the A-10s safe.

I believe there are 50ish A-10Cs in the boneyard that could be made ready. The -As are probably mostly picked clean from cannibalization.



posted on Jan, 31 2023 @ 08:35 AM
link   
a reply to: Zaphod58

Ukraine had nearly 2,000 soviet era tanks and the majority of the stockpile that western countries had donated in.

The majority of which clearly were destroyed by Russia.




but they aren’t as desperate as they were.

They are desperate considering they are begging and begging for more.

For someone who isn't desperate wouldn't be begging for more.


Considering Ukraine recently just begged Germany to give Ukraine at least six Submarines.



posted on Jan, 31 2023 @ 08:51 AM
link   
a reply to: vNex92

What, do you think ammunition and weapons systems just magically appear? The only time you have enough when fighting a war is when it’s over.

So you’ve seen all of those 2,000 tanks that were “obviously destroyed” have you? Saw them all operational, saw them all fighting, saw them all destroyed? Because no military would ever lie about their capabilities and status of forces.

They’re fighting a war that as they see it is for their very survival as a nation. They’re going to ask for the moon to get every advantage they can get. So would you if you were in their position. There’s desperate, and there’s desperate. They’re currently in the position to be desperate for every advantage they can get. They were in the position of being desperate for every gun that shoots.



posted on Jan, 31 2023 @ 09:00 AM
link   
a reply to: vNex92

I think 2k tanks is a gross overestimate, unless you're including all ground combat vehicles (IFVs, APCs, etc). Most estimates I found say they had less than half of that in tanks at the start of the war. The majority of their tanks at the start of the war were very outdated T-64s, most of which would need complete overhauls to be combat ready.







 
8
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join